Colin Kaepernick Thread

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 9moon:
Part of Kaep's failure last year was because he was trying to do too much... the expectation got to him early and often.. the early success in his 1st year as a starter, how the media blew him up and made him forget that he still young and inexperience, and last but not the least, the STAR that he wasn't yet.

It was almost like he needed to make a big play and prove to the whole world that he is what they thought he was suppose to be.. the Super Bowl incompletion, the Richard Sherman INT, it was like Kaep was playing against his own ghost and exorcise those demons..

this year, if he plays within the system just like the year he took over after Alex Smith was injured, we should see a Kaep rise from the ashes again..

"The Storm is Comin"!!

It wasn't the media, it was harbaugh's fault for Kaeps slight regression

I dont know.. I would never blame the coach for a QB's regression.. a team for not being prepared, yes, I could blame the coach, but an individual player, sorry, I just don't see it that way..

Kaep had an awesome year when he took over, no defense was prepared for his style and that also helped.. But the fact is, almost every media, experts, ex players, announcers, had Kaep as the "NEXT" great thing in the NFL.. even Jaworski once said that "this kid could be the best QB of all time"..

.. and with all those being said, and Kaep hearing them, I don't believe that it did not get into his head somehow.. and once it got in his head, HUMBLE PIE was served..

Do you really believe what you are saying right now?

The coach has everything to do with all of his players progression...and the most important position he is responsible for is the QB

I just fully believe that a great QB will be great whoever his coach is... Manning was already great even before Dungy and Cox became his headcoach, and I doubt that any of those two had anything to do with it..

I just really think that Kaep had an OFF year because the load got heavier... the expectation got too high too soon..

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 9moon:
Part of Kaep's failure last year was because he was trying to do too much... the expectation got to him early and often.. the early success in his 1st year as a starter, how the media blew him up and made him forget that he still young and inexperience, and last but not the least, the STAR that he wasn't yet.

It was almost like he needed to make a big play and prove to the whole world that he is what they thought he was suppose to be.. the Super Bowl incompletion, the Richard Sherman INT, it was like Kaep was playing against his own ghost and exorcise those demons..

this year, if he plays within the system just like the year he took over after Alex Smith was injured, we should see a Kaep rise from the ashes again..

"The Storm is Comin"!!

It wasn't the media, it was harbaugh's fault for Kaeps slight regression

I dont know.. I would never blame the coach for a QB's regression.. a team for not being prepared, yes, I could blame the coach, but an individual player, sorry, I just don't see it that way..

Kaep had an awesome year when he took over, no defense was prepared for his style and that also helped.. But the fact is, almost every media, experts, ex players, announcers, had Kaep as the "NEXT" great thing in the NFL.. even Jaworski once said that "this kid could be the best QB of all time"..

.. and with all those being said, and Kaep hearing them, I don't believe that it did not get into his head somehow.. and once it got in his head, HUMBLE PIE was served..

Do you really believe what you are saying right now?

The coach has everything to do with all of his players progression...and the most important position he is responsible for is the QB

I just fully believe that a great QB will be great whoever his coach is... Manning was already great even before Dungy and Cox became his headcoach, and I doubt that any of those two had anything to do with it..

I just really think that Kaep had an OFF year because the load got heavier... the expectation got too high too soon..

Manning is not a great example..Manning is in a class of his own.

Harbaughs Play calling effected everyone on offense

It feels like the past 3 years were lost seasons due to Kap not getting the basic teachings. He was a project from the get go, so his first three years as a pro should have been getting drilled in fundamentals. Lay the groundwork so that the real complexities of the QB position can be less difficult to master. He wasn't supposed to be a starter for a playoff contender until year 3 or 4, something like that. It's as if he is at square one again.

At least he has big game experience and experience in general, but it's like he is learning things backwards. It's supposed to be fundamentals, then in-game experience, not the other way around. Oh well.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Manning is not a great example..Manning is in a class of his own.

Harbaughs Play calling effected everyone on offense

Harbaugh just didn't seem to understand taking advantage of your players strengths. Clearly Vernon was not used. Why you keep him in to block and/or run decoy type patterns is beyond me.

Originally posted by thl408:
It feels like the past 3 years were lost seasons due to Kap not getting the basic teachings. He was a project from the get go, so his first three years as a pro should have been getting drilled in fundamentals. Lay the groundwork so that the real complexities of the QB position can be less difficult to master. He wasn't supposed to be a starter for a playoff contender until year 3 or 4, something like that. It's as if he is at square one again.

At least he has big game experience and experience in general, but it's like he is learning things backwards. It's supposed to be fundamentals, then in-game experience, not the other way around. Oh well.

It does feel like that. I remember wanting Alex to finish what he started for that very reason...CK wasn't ready despite being more dynamic and with an opposite skill set. But I could totally understand the decision too as LONG as he was being developed into a pro QB in a pro-style offense along the way.

My only real concern now is that he may have to unlearn some bad habits d/t neglect and that is hard to do. I think there are a ton of things Logan/Geep can scheme around weaknesses while slowly developing him more and more into the ideal QB, but there will continue to be some growing pains.

This coaching change could end up being heaven-sent though and CK is still young. Imagine if Steve Young was stuck in Tampa his whole career? There is some luck involved...Andrew Luck-type luck. When the right players go to the right systems under the right tutelage, you can end up with the Jerry Rice's of the world, Joe Montana's, Ronnie Lott's, etc.

Hopefully CK is the right player in the right system under the right tutelage now!

Originally posted by thl408:
It feels like the past 3 years were lost seasons due to Kap not getting the basic teachings. He was a project from the get go, so his first three years as a pro should have been getting drilled in fundamentals. Lay the groundwork so that the real complexities of the QB position can be less difficult to master. He wasn't supposed to be a starter for a playoff contender until year 3 or 4, something like that. It's as if he is at square one again.

At least he has big game experience and experience in general, but it's like he is learning things backwards. It's supposed to be fundamentals, then in-game experience, not the other way around. Oh well.

He was in a perfect situation to learn behind a cerebral QB and slowly take over, but the team was beginning to split and it seems CK was just too electric, when he took over for an injured Smith, to put back on the bench. That said, my first concern about Harbaugh as a coach was his insistance that his power run offense had something to do with the WCO. The second concern was when he said he wouldn't tinker with a QBs fundamental skills. He said every QB had to use their unique skills within their comfort zone. I thought he was just talking about the throwing motion but it seems he was talking about most areas...even timing...or especially timing.

My problem with blaming Harbaugh completely is that it's impossible to know just how well (or badly) the receivers ran the correct routes and it was also apparent that the OL seldom gave CK time to go through progressions if they were even written into plays.

Those who watched a lot of video may be able to enlighten me on this but I just didn't see progressive timing routes as the WCO calls for.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by thl408:
It feels like the past 3 years were lost seasons due to Kap not getting the basic teachings. He was a project from the get go, so his first three years as a pro should have been getting drilled in fundamentals. Lay the groundwork so that the real complexities of the QB position can be less difficult to master. He wasn't supposed to be a starter for a playoff contender until year 3 or 4, something like that. It's as if he is at square one again.

At least he has big game experience and experience in general, but it's like he is learning things backwards. It's supposed to be fundamentals, then in-game experience, not the other way around. Oh well.

He was in a perfect situation to learn behind a cerebral QB and slowly take over, but the team was beginning to split and it seems CK was just too electric, when he took over for an injured Smith, to put back on the bench. That said, my first concern about Harbaugh as a coach was his insistance that his power run offense had something to do with the WCO. The second concern was when he said he wouldn't tinker with a QBs fundamental skills. He said every QB had to use their unique skills within their comfort zone. I thought he was just talking about the throwing motion but it seems he was talking about most areas...even timing...or especially timing.

My problem with blaming Harbaugh completely is that it's impossible to know just how well (or badly) the receivers ran the correct routes and it was also apparent that the OL seldom gave CK time to go through progressions if they were even written into plays.

Those who watched a lot of video may be able to enlighten me on this but I just didn't see progressive timing routes as the WCO calls for.

Are you watching the all22 view? Because if you're not, then I don't blame you for not seeing it since the WRs just run off the side of the TV. There were definitely timing routes in the offense under Harbaugh. I've stated this before, but it is Kap's delay in moving off a progression that usually ruined the timing of a play. I referred to it as how quickly a QB can 'red light' a WR and move to his next progression. If a QB takes too long checking to see if the first read is open or not open, then it ruins the timing for the subsequent reads in the progression. Kap struggles with this and it's why, in 2013, people called him a one read QB. He was not, he was a slow read QB.

About whether the WRs ran the correct routes (depth wise), I did not look for that but a person can indeed tell by watching a play. First, identify the concept they are trying to run. This will give clues to the QB's progression on the play. Then watch to see when each route makes its break. The first read in the progression should break first, then the second, then so on.
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I like this article for its explanation of coverage read vs progression reads, but that's a tangent.
In this particular play, Kap will 'red light' the Corner route because of the CB that is closest to the sideline (yellow circle, top of screen). That CB defeats the Corner route. Kap then moves to his second read in the progression which is the Dig. To be hypercritical, Kap takes a split second too long to deliver this ball even though it's a nice completion. Had he thrown it earlier, then he hits Boldin just as Boldin starts his cut and Boldin would have caught the pass running. It's a 7 step timing (shotgun snap + 5 step dropback) with a hitch (Corner), hitch (Dig), hitch (Drag).
http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/9/3/6096747/colin-kaepernick-49ers-quarterback-film-breakdown-reads




2014 was almost pointless to critique because the pass pro was the worst it had been in all the years under Harbaugh. Kap must have felt like a lottery winner if he had time to hit three reads on any particular play.

Originally posted by thl408:
Are you watching the all22 view? Because if you're not, then I don't blame you for not seeing it since the WRs just run off the side of the TV. There were definitely timing routes in the offense under Harbaugh. I've stated this before, but it is Kap's delay in moving off a progression that usually ruined the timing of a play. I referred to it as how quickly a QB can 'red light' a WR and move to his next progression. If a QB takes too long checking to see if the first read is open or not open, then it ruins the timing for the subsequent reads in the progression. Kap struggles with this and it's why, in 2013, people called him a one read QB. He was not, he was a slow read QB.

About whether the WRs ran the correct routes (depth wise), I did not look for that but a person can indeed tell by watching a play. First, identify the concept they are trying to run. This will give clues to the QB's progression on the play. Then watch to see when each route makes its break. The first read in the progression should break first, then the second, then so on.
.
.
I like this article for its explanation of coverage read vs progression reads, but that's a tangent.
In this particular play, Kap will 'red light' the Corner route because of the CB that is closest to the sideline (yellow circle, top of screen). That CB defeats the Corner route. Kap then moves to his second read in the progression which is the Dig. To be hypercritical, Kap takes a split second too long to deliver this ball even though it's a nice completion. Had he thrown it earlier, then he hits Boldin just as Boldin starts his cut and Boldin would have caught the pass running. It's a 7 step timing (shotgun snap + 5 step dropback) with a hitch (Corner), hitch (Dig), hitch (Drag).


2014 was almost pointless to critique because the pass pro was the worst it had been in all the years under Harbaugh. Kap must have felt like a lottery winner if he had time to hit three reads on any particular play.

Thanks! No, though I have signed up with a few sites for video, time has not allowed me to review games except for a few specific issues I was trying to watch...like OL play and ILB issues.

Disagree somewhat about the recievers unless there is no reading the D before the snap and adjusting. If CK is seeing one thing and the WRs are seeing another it can become a broken play. That's assuming they use recognition of the D to determine route depth, etc.

As for the OL last year...agree completely! CK had to be rattled last year and wondering what was going on. Using four centers (or was it five?) and a temp RT, and a hold out RG...just a disaster of a year.

Out of curiosity...do you feel you know the play book well enough to gauge proper depth of routes for all the passing plays? If so,

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Thanks! No, though I have signed up with a few sites for video, time has not allowed me to review games except for a few specific issues I was trying to watch...like OL play and ILB issues.

Disagree somewhat about the recievers unless there is no reading the D before the snap and adjusting. If CK is seeing one thing and the WRs are seeing another it can become a broken play. That's assuming they use recognition of the D to determine route depth, etc.

As for the OL last year...agree completely! CK had to be rattled last year and wondering what was going on. Using four centers (or was it five?) and a temp RT, and a hold out RG...just a disaster of a year.

Out of curiosity...do you feel you know the play book well enough to gauge proper depth of routes for all the passing plays? If so,

No, I don't know the playbook to determine the proper depth of the routes. We are talking on the level of +/- 1 or 2 yards whether the WR ran a route at the correct depth. I just don't look at that level of detail when watching plays. I can, however, recognize a concept and have a good idea what the progression is based on the QB's dropback.

Originally posted by 9moon:
I just fully believe that a great QB will be great whoever his coach is... Manning was already great even before Dungy and Cox became his headcoach, and I doubt that any of those two had anything to do with it..

I just really think that Kaep had an OFF year because the load got heavier... the expectation got too high too soon..

Manning had a great coach his whole life considering he had an NFL QB for a dad. Totally different situation.

Not everyone comes out the gate great. There's a reason Steve Young wasn't a HOF caliber QB with Tampa Bay. Tom Brady wasn't Tom Brady right away he had to work on his craft.

Colin had early success but then no development at all. Our big plan to build an offense around Colin was to spend all offseason working on more read option...only to find out early that defenses all across the league worked on how to stop it. We never went back to try and use Colin's strengths to make the offense better. We basically kept doing what worked in 2012...except we didn't have the personnel to pull it off properly anymore and everyone now knew what was coming yet we kept doing it.

Originally posted by thl408:
It feels like the past 3 years were lost seasons due to Kap not getting the basic teachings. He was a project from the get go, so his first three years as a pro should have been getting drilled in fundamentals. Lay the groundwork so that the real complexities of the QB position can be less difficult to master. He wasn't supposed to be a starter for a playoff contender until year 3 or 4, something like that. It's as if he is at square one again.

At least he has big game experience and experience in general, but it's like he is learning things backwards. It's supposed to be fundamentals, then in-game experience, not the other way around. Oh well.

Great point. I was always a Kap fan and thought he would replace Alex in 2013 at the earliest but more likely in 2014. He was raw as heck and needed to be coached up. The fact that he was as successful as he was in 2012 shocked me. I expected him to come in and basically look like an inexperienced Brett Favre - lots of crazy big plays but also a ton of turnovers.

Hopefully for Kap and the team it's not too late. I'm glad he's at least admitting he has issues he needs to work on. I'm still not sold that the team did everything they could do get him a proper coordinator but from the sound of it at least they're adding some obvious things and speeding things up which should help the offense and Kap.

Originally posted by thl408:
No, I don't know the playbook to determine the proper depth of the routes. We are talking on the level of +/- 1 or 2 yards whether the WR ran a route at the correct depth. I just don't look at that level of detail when watching plays. I can, however, recognize a concept and have a good idea what the progression is based on the QB's dropback.

Ahh...was hoping you had a source for playbooks that I could worm out of you!

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 9moon:
I just fully believe that a great QB will be great whoever his coach is... Manning was already great even before Dungy and Cox became his headcoach, and I doubt that any of those two had anything to do with it..

I just really think that Kaep had an OFF year because the load got heavier... the expectation got too high too soon..

Manning had a great coach his whole life considering he had an NFL QB for a dad. Totally different situation.

Not everyone comes out the gate great. There's a reason Steve Young wasn't a HOF caliber QB with Tampa Bay. Tom Brady wasn't Tom Brady right away he had to work on his craft.

Colin had early success but then no development at all. Our big plan to build an offense around Colin was to spend all offseason working on more read option...only to find out early that defenses all across the league worked on how to stop it. We never went back to try and use Colin's strengths to make the offense better. We basically kept doing what worked in 2012...except we didn't have the personnel to pull it off properly anymore and everyone now knew what was coming yet we kept doing it.

Bad example. Tampa Bay was the worst team in the NFL when Young was there. And his OC was none other than the great Jimmy Raye.

Originally posted by aTx49er:
Bad example. Tampa Bay was the worst team in the NFL when Young was there. And his OC was none other than the great Jimmy Raye.

no way !

Steve Young was no where close to being a HOF type of QB when he was at Tbay because he was only there for about 2 years... We would have never known the result of Steve Young regardless...

Brady's talent was overlooked by everyone even when he was in Michigan.. Drew Henson's name was just bigger and UM wanted him to just takeover the minute he joined the football team..

Brady was a BIG surprise once he got his chance (Bledsoe getting Injured), and no one was blaming Bilichick when Brady and the Patriots regressed in his 2nd year as the starter..