49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Stanley:

Originally posted by cciowa:
I hope it will not come down to seeing jimmy get knocked out in order for people to see this line is not very good. if jimmy gets knocked out I really do not think anyone will say. oh its ok, all nfl teams have o line issues as if that is supposed to make us feel better. but who knows, homers are going to homer. as you said aside from , hopefully, adding some mid tier or below mid tier tackle or guard or both for depth. the line is as good as it will ever be . in regards to the three quarterbacks and four tight ends. we sure could have used two extra spots on SOMEONE . to me the want for cj and a want for a 4th tight end was not as critical as the need for some offensive line guy or maybe a decent safety. but again with cj. we are dealing with kyles ego in my opinion and i hope jimmy will not pay the price for that. of course cj would not bring us any elite player, which speaks volumes to how he never should have drafted by us where he was. but the bottom line. he did not deserve to be on this roster

So laughable that you think you have a better grasp on the oline situation than the coaches. Or even that you think you're the only person worried about the oline. Or that you think the pool of oline FA talent is such that the team has somehow missed out on someone who isn't at all comparable to someone else available down the line.

Child please.

never said any of those things you said i said , kid. but keep defending. its admirable. short sighted and denialish but admirable

Originally posted by NCommand:
Upgrade the G's talent (push both to depth), young talented security at C, quality depth across the board.

Will Kyle address any of this in 2020? Like you said, not likely because his ego believes he can work around it (we're about to find out again if that's true).

And when one injury happens, and it will...

No team in the NFL has quality depth across the board on the OL. NONE. Everyone has questions somewhere. Nature of a salary cap league.

Originally posted by cciowa:
I hope it will not come down to seeing jimmy get knocked out in order for people to see this line is not very good. if jimmy gets knocked out I really do not think anyone will say. oh its ok, all nfl teams have o line issues as if that is supposed to make us feel better. but who knows, homers are going to homer. as you said aside from , hopefully, adding some mid tier or below mid tier tackle or guard or both for depth. the line is as good as it will ever be . in regards to the three quarterbacks and four tight ends. we sure could have used two extra spots on SOMEONE . to me the want for cj and a want for a 4th tight end was not as critical as the need for some offensive line guy or maybe a decent safety. but again with cj. we are dealing with kyles ego in my opinion and i hope jimmy will not pay the price for that. of course cj would not bring us any elite player, which speaks volumes to how he never should have drafted by us where he was. but the bottom line. he did not deserve to be on this roster

DiShone Kizer brought nothing in trade but was highly drafted. CJ was drafted to be a backup QB. That is what he is. The fact Nick has moved ahead was a huge surprise to everyone. Those things happen.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by cciowa:
I hope it will not come down to seeing jimmy get knocked out in order for people to see this line is not very good. if jimmy gets knocked out I really do not think anyone will say. oh its ok, all nfl teams have o line issues as if that is supposed to make us feel better. but who knows, homers are going to homer. as you said aside from , hopefully, adding some mid tier or below mid tier tackle or guard or both for depth. the line is as good as it will ever be . in regards to the three quarterbacks and four tight ends. we sure could have used two extra spots on SOMEONE . to me the want for cj and a want for a 4th tight end was not as critical as the need for some offensive line guy or maybe a decent safety. but again with cj. we are dealing with kyles ego in my opinion and i hope jimmy will not pay the price for that. of course cj would not bring us any elite player, which speaks volumes to how he never should have drafted by us where he was. but the bottom line. he did not deserve to be on this roster

DiShone Kizer brought nothing in trade but was highly drafted. CJ was drafted to be a backup QB. That is what he is. The fact Nick has moved ahead was a huge surprise to everyone. Those things happen.

i get it,, just the thought of cj holding a clipboard when maybe his place could have been filled by ANYONE in a spot of need for us will make me crazy.. with nick and with the good depth we had.. i just hoped the team would cut bait with aa and cj and at least get a 6th or a 7th and try to recoup something from those bad decisions. bad in my eyes

With all the discussion and controversy re: OL acquisition, something makes one wonder why recently, in last yr and including this one, OLs have been added to rosters so late in the game. Look at us:

Added Person, just prior to season last yr IIRC
Added Laken by trade with Detroit sometime prior to PS.
Added Brunskill recently
Added Pope this last week.

Bellichik added 3 OLs one week before season begins.

Now formerly i thot this to be nutty, but what is it about getting OLs at the near to last moment ...that makes coaches like BB and kyle do it? And they aren't the only ones. Look at all rosters adn other teams have had late OL add ons in addition. There has to be a reason. Why is it? It appears to not be good planning, yet many teams are doing it. Why?

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is true too.

2018:
Tom Brady = 2.62 (TT) - 5.6 (CAY)
Nick Mullens = 2.7 (TT) - 5.8 (CAY)
C.J. Beathard = 2.61 (TT) - 5 (CAY)

2017:
Tom Brady = 2.71 (TT) - 6.6 (CAY)
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.75 (TT) - 6.8 (CAY)
C.J. Beathard = 2.60 (TT) - 5.6 (CAY)

When you're getting rid of the ball this quickly and still getting hit 125 times, that's all OL.

Kyle kept 3 QB's for a reason. LOL

Absolute TRUTH!

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
With all the discussion and controversy re: OL acquisition, something makes one wonder why recently, in last yr and including this one, OLs have been added to rosters so late in the game. Look at us:

Added Person, just prior to season last yr IIRC
Added Laken by trade with Detroit sometime prior to PS.
Added Brunskill recently
Added Pope this last week.

Bellichik added 3 OLs one week before season begins.

Now formerly i thot this to be nutty, but what is it about getting OLs at the near to last moment ...that makes coaches like BB and kyle do it? And they aren't the only ones. Look at all rosters adn other teams have had late OL add ons in addition. There has to be a reason. Why is it? It appears to not be good planning, yet many teams are doing it. Why?

Solid post paso!

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by cciowa:
I hope it will not come down to seeing jimmy get knocked out in order for people to see this line is not very good. if jimmy gets knocked out I really do not think anyone will say. oh its ok, all nfl teams have o line issues as if that is supposed to make us feel better. but who knows, homers are going to homer. as you said aside from , hopefully, adding some mid tier or below mid tier tackle or guard or both for depth. the line is as good as it will ever be . in regards to the three quarterbacks and four tight ends. we sure could have used two extra spots on SOMEONE . to me the want for cj and a want for a 4th tight end was not as critical as the need for some offensive line guy or maybe a decent safety. but again with cj. we are dealing with kyles ego in my opinion and i hope jimmy will not pay the price for that. of course cj would not bring us any elite player, which speaks volumes to how he never should have drafted by us where he was. but the bottom line. he did not deserve to be on this roster

DiShone Kizer brought nothing in trade but was highly drafted. CJ was drafted to be a backup QB. That is what he is. The fact Nick has moved ahead was a huge surprise to everyone. Those things happen.

i get it,, just the thought of cj holding a clipboard when maybe his place could have been filled by ANYONE in a spot of need for us will make me crazy.. with nick and with the good depth we had.. i just hoped the team would cut bait with aa and cj and at least get a 6th or a 7th and try to recoup something from those bad decisions. bad in my eyes

The very nature of this OL thread is based on a large amount of hindsight.

As paso noted just above, the FO made a number of moves to shore up the OL. The current problem, and discussion, now centers around two injuries; Richburg last season and the uncertainty of his current health, and Coleman's ankle fracture. Bringing in Garland was a backup plan for Richburg and signing Brunskill last spring was insurance for a swing tackle in development. Brunskill looked very promising in PS and Garland looked like Garland. We also have another OL project on the PS in Ryan Pope. There are pieces in play. So it all comes down to health.

As to Armstead and Beathard's trade value; if all you get for either one is a 7th, or even a 6th, you keep them both. 3rd day picks are rarely any more than ST players if they even make the 45. Armstead will see a great deal of PT this season, far more than a 3rd day pick. If all he does is hold the point of attack while protecting our LBs, he will be worth the roster spot. Beathard plays an important role, albeit one we hope will never be in play - still better than a central runner on the kickoff team.

49ers: That offensive line is a problem. It was a problem all during their preseason, and I'm guessing it will continue to be. If they don't figure things out, that entire offense could dramatically slow down.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2851960-mike-freemans-10-point-stance-nfl-insiders-takes-on-every-team-before-kickoff

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Upgrade the G's talent (push both to depth), young talented security at C, quality depth across the board.

Will Kyle address any of this in 2020? Like you said, not likely because his ego believes he can work around it (we're about to find out again if that's true).

And when one injury happens, and it will...

No team in the NFL has quality depth across the board on the OL. NONE. Everyone has questions somewhere. Nature of a salary cap league.

And how would you know this? There are several teams that prioritize their OL every year like we did with the DL. Constantly adding resources and trying to upgrade the starters, thus improving the depth by default.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

NC the article I posted has A LOT of data I'm sure you'll enjoy!

https://www.thephinsider.com/2019/7/21/20702713/how-important-is-the-offensive-line-in-the-nfl-passing-game-a-look-at

I'll definitely take a look!

This week probably isn't the week to talk weak. This is the first week of regular season football so let's focus on rainbows and unicorns this week. Richburg will start and have a nice solid game and the OL keeps JG upright and in rhythm. We win 24-19...first East Coast win in forever.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by NCommand:

This is true too.

2018:
Tom Brady = 2.62 (TT) - 5.6 (CAY)
Nick Mullens = 2.7 (TT) - 5.8 (CAY)
C.J. Beathard = 2.61 (TT) - 5 (CAY)

2017:
Tom Brady = 2.71 (TT) - 6.6 (CAY)
Jimmy Garoppolo = 2.75 (TT) - 6.8 (CAY)
C.J. Beathard = 2.60 (TT) - 5.6 (CAY)

When you're getting rid of the ball this quickly and still getting hit 125 times, that's all OL.

Kyle kept 3 QB's for a reason. LOL

Absolute TRUTH!

Absolutely IGNORED!

Originally posted by FL9er:

49ers: That offensive line is a problem. It was a problem all during their preseason, and I'm guessing it will continue to be. If they don't figure things out, that entire offense could dramatically slow down.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2851960-mike-freemans-10-point-stance-nfl-insiders-takes-on-every-team-before-kickoff

A decent take but too superficial to be very meaningful.

As we have noted here ad nauseum, if Richburg is fully healthy, it will make a huge difference. When the center is not solid, it creates a great deal of uncertainty with the guards, and we saw that all pre-season.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by FL9er:

49ers: That offensive line is a problem. It was a problem all during their preseason, and I'm guessing it will continue to be. If they don't figure things out, that entire offense could dramatically slow down.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2851960-mike-freemans-10-point-stance-nfl-insiders-takes-on-every-team-before-kickoff

A decent take but too superficial to be very meaningful.

As we have noted here ad nauseum, if Richburg is fully healthy, it will make a huge difference. When the center is not solid, it creates a great deal of uncertainty with the guards, and we saw that all pre-season.

I know that was a unique situation but any time you upgrade a starter, you upgrade the depth. I wish we would have kept Kilgore for this very reason. I know he wanted to be a starter though...just a bummer. But that was the right idea.

Originally posted by dj43:

The very nature of this OL thread is based on a large amount of hindsight.

As paso noted just above, the FO made a number of moves to shore up the OL. The current problem, and discussion, now centers around two injuries; Richburg last season and the uncertainty of his current health, and Coleman's ankle fracture. Bringing in Garland was a backup plan for Richburg and signing Brunskill last spring was insurance for a swing tackle in development. Brunskill looked very promising in PS and Garland looked like Garland. We also have another OL project on the PS in Ryan Pope. There are pieces in play. So it all comes down to health.

As to Armstead and Beathard's trade value; if all you get for either one is a 7th, or even a 6th, you keep them both. 3rd day picks are rarely any more than ST players if they even make the 45. Armstead will see a great deal of PT this season, far more than a 3rd day pick. If all he does is hold the point of attack while protecting our LBs, he will be worth the roster spot. Beathard plays an important role, albeit one we hope will never be in play - still better than a central runner on the kickoff team.

There has been a lot of noise about trading out Arik, and getting rid of CJ. Several others too, but let's just stay with these 2 and DJs point: does anyone REALLY want to have traded Arik for a late day 3 pick? Anyone? And CJ...the same? Heck, no, and in CJs case, odds are he will play this yr if our OL is not good enough. You all understand what that implies.

As for Arik...3rd day pick...he is a guy who will play a lot this yr, and swap him out for a ST on day 3? But "Arik and CJ are worth way more that that," some say. Well, maybe so, but :

If you want to trade...it takes two to dance. And therein was the problem...nobody valued either guy as a day 1 or day 2 pick. And with no dance partner, you sit the dance out.

Really it is that simple. Nobody wanted either guy at anything more than a day 3 pick...or there would mostl likely been some dealing done. Add to that, if JimmyG goes down, with no CJ, we are strung out high and dry with no backup. We might be able to get a Hoyer quality backup , but that isn't going to help. Nope, keeping Arik and CJ was by far the better choice, given that nobody else wanted to dance.