49ers Offensive Line

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Originally posted by NCommand:

True. So many "athletic QB's" coming in. Talent is still there. But can your staff develop him as an NFL QB (HaRoman = No / Reid+Alex Smith = Yes).

You're making an argument of talent vs readiness. There is still tons of QB talent. A guy like Mahomes was never lacking in talent.


The problem with OL is that there is a dropoff in both skill and talent. This has been said regularly by people like Bentley, Schlereth, Polian and others. Guys aren't being taught right and the pool of guys that is available is significantly smaller as the allure of defense is a lot stronger for the better athletes. Its an easier position for them and you only have to win once or twice a game to an impact. An OL only has to screw up once per game to lose their job.




Think about it, would you rather be the guy who gets 2 sacks and winds up on ESPN highlights or the guy who quietly blocks his man all day and doesn't even show up on the boxscore?

Can we at least agree that they haven't 'completely neglected' the O line since Lynch and Kyle took over. They used a high pick on Mcglinchey and have brought in several free agents. The probably waited too long to release Garnett but since they don't have a lot of options at guard they wanted to give him every chance to get healthy and play. It didn't work but they didn't have a lot of options. I see fans saying they should have signed this guy or picked that guy but they forget how many other holes we had to fill. Last draft was a bad one for O line but good for D line so we went in that direction. Then we tried to fill another weak spot at receiver. You just can't get all these spots filled in one season. It's not fantasy football. Every team in the league has at least one area of weakness and O line is a common one. That makes it even harder to get quality in free agency since teams don't release good linemen. Too many fans see a name they recognize on the waiver wire and assume he would be a good fit for the Niners but that's not always the case. Teams release players for 3 reasons. Either they aren't good enough, they are too old and expensive or they have too many players at that position. The first 2 aren't good options if you want to build your team and the last one doesn't happen very often with O linemen.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Let's not confuse "talent" with "NFL-ready." The claim is there is a shortage of talent.

These are very clear examples of lack of development and technique coming into the NFL and I could not agree more with that. In fact, the lack of mindset to finish blocks is something I've noted with us this off season. Garland in particular but young players in general. They'll seal, turn out and get the right angle for a second and then just stop, stand there, giving the DL an extra second to recover and plug the hole. Go watch our first string in the 3rd pre season game and you'll see why we couldn't run inside.

Its both. Talent and readiness. If you're a super athletic big guy, playing defense requires a lot less skill. The DL's are bigger and faster than they've ever been and the OL are less skilled and less savvy than they've ever been.

Look at the Combine this year. Quinnen Williams ran a 4.83 40 at 300+ pounds. How many OL are doing the same? DL's coming in are a lot more athletic while the OL's largely lack the basic skills to be able to block them effectively in a conventional NFL offense.

There is a small number of schools still churning out pro ready linemen. Places like Notre Dame along with Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan and Michigan State. Basically the Big 10 is still doing things right as far as OL go. If I had to wager why the 49ers didn't pull the trigger on more OL's, its because I think they are largely looking at guys coming out of those schools and who would fit their offense well.

Heh, I think it has to do with the weather. Hard to pass in sub zero temperatures. Gotta go with Bo Shembechler in those situations.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Can we at least agree that they haven't 'completely neglected' the O line since Lynch and Kyle took over. They used a high pick on Mcglinchey and have brought in several free agents. The probably waited too long to release Garnett but since they don't have a lot of options at guard they wanted to give him every chance to get healthy and play. It didn't work but they didn't have a lot of options. I see fans saying they should have signed this guy or picked that guy but they forget how many other holes we had to fill. Last draft was a bad one for O line but good for D line so we went in that direction. Then we tried to fill another weak spot at receiver. You just can't get all these spots filled in one season. It's not fantasy football. Every team in the league has at least one area of weakness and O line is a common one. That makes it even harder to get quality in free agency since teams don't release good linemen. Too many fans see a name they recognize on the waiver wire and assume he would be a good fit for the Niners but that's not always the case. Teams release players for 3 reasons. Either they aren't good enough, they are too old and expensive or they have too many players at that position. The first 2 aren't good options if you want to build your team and the last one doesn't happen very often with O linemen.

That was a pretty silly argument to make in the first place. They traded for Tomlinson, they used a top 10 pick on McGlinchey, they gave a hefty FA contract to a center who was one of the better pass blockers at his position.


The Patriots drafted N'Keal Harry with a 1st rounder. He's on IR. Using the same logic, they failed to invest in the WR position.



Absolutely they should continue upgrading the OL but if we see a healthy Richburg then I don't think the line will be anywhere near as bad as some are expecting.

All I want for Christmas is a good OL.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

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You're making an argument of talent vs readiness. There is still tons of QB talent. A guy like Mahomes was never lacking in talent.


The problem with OL is that there is a dropoff in both skill and talent. This has been said regularly by people like Bentley, Schlereth, Polian and others. Guys aren't being taught right and the pool of guys that is available is significantly smaller as the allure of defense is a lot stronger for the better athletes. Its an easier position for them and you only have to win once or twice a game to an impact. An OL only has to screw up once per game to lose their job.


Think about it, would you rather be the guy who gets 2 sacks and winds up on ESPN highlights or the guy who quietly blocks his man all day and doesn't even show up on the boxscore?

I agree on the readiness. Went in depth on that.

Talent, no, I don't buy that...yet. You can't realize one until the other.

IMHO, the amount of talent of spread QB's coming in is the same rate as OL right now and both need much more time and development before their talent can be fully realized and it's taking years.

How many talented spread QB's and OL have come in 3-5 years ago who are just now starting to reach their talent level...and that's if they went to good situations and had quality NFL coaching and development.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Can we at least agree that they haven't 'completely neglected' the O line since Lynch and Kyle took over. They used a high pick on Mcglinchey and have brought in several free agents. The probably waited too long to release Garnett but since they don't have a lot of options at guard they wanted to give him every chance to get healthy and play. It didn't work but they didn't have a lot of options. I see fans saying they should have signed this guy or picked that guy but they forget how many other holes we had to fill. Last draft was a bad one for O line but good for D line so we went in that direction. Then we tried to fill another weak spot at receiver. You just can't get all these spots filled in one season. It's not fantasy football. Every team in the league has at least one area of weakness and O line is a common one. That makes it even harder to get quality in free agency since teams don't release good linemen. Too many fans see a name they recognize on the waiver wire and assume he would be a good fit for the Niners but that's not always the case. Teams release players for 3 reasons. Either they aren't good enough, they are too old and expensive or they have too many players at that position. The first 2 aren't good options if you want to build your team and the last one doesn't happen very often with O linemen.

Well, for me, I'm confident that with Jimmy playing QB, that OLine will be decent. I'd love to have had more draft picks go to the OLine, but even then - Skule, Brunskill, Pope, I'm satisfied that Kyle has addressed the OLine as best as he could this year. The Coleman injury really threw a monkey wrench into Kyle's OLine plans, but so did Jimmy's injury last year and he still had to play 13 more games without his franchise QB. As for NCommand and CC, they have legitimate concerns, but I don't share their views on the OLine. I think that OLine will do a lot better than the OLine back when Jimmy was 5-0. I think the personnel scheme fit is better than in 2017, and Jimmy will be better than in 2017.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Can we at least agree that they haven't 'completely neglected' the O line since Lynch and Kyle took over.

Certainly agree. Neglect is different than prioritization. We're somewhere in between.

Originally posted by mayo49:

All I want for Christmas is a good OL.

My man!

Originally posted by NCommand:

I agree on the readiness. Went in depth on that.

Talent, no, I don't buy that...yet. You can't realize one until the other.

IMHO, the amount of talent of spread QB's coming in is the same rate as OL right now and both need much more time and development before their talent can be fully realized and it's taking years.

How many talented spread QB's and OL have come in 3-5 years ago who are just now starting to reach their talent level...and that's if they went to Goff situations and had quality NFL coaching development.

Thats fine but people who coach and scout the position for a living do. No offense but when someone like Bentley, a former NFL lineman who runs a training school for OL talks about a deficit of talent, I'm going to guess he knows what he is talking about.



On the other hand, people who scout QBs for a living say there is more QB talent coming into the league than ever before. They are coming in various states of readiness but talent is definitely not an issue.



Everyone still wants to be the QB, the hero of the team, especially in an ever-more passer friendly game. So talent at the position is not an issue. If anything we have an overabundance of people wanting to be a QB. Guys who can't hack there eventually work their way to RB, WR or even the secondary.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Absolutely they should continue upgrading the OL but if we see a healthy Richburg then I don't think the line will be anywhere near as bad as some are expecting.

Richburg, quite literally, could be symbolic to our season. It goes as he goes.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Thats fine but people who coach and scout the position for a living do. No offense but when someone like Bentley, a former NFL lineman who runs a training school for OL talks about a deficit of talent, I'm going to guess he knows what he is talking about.

On the other hand, people who scout QBs for a living say there is more QB talent coming into the league than ever before. They are coming in various states of readiness but talent is definitely not an issue.

Bentley works with a very small select group of OL who specifically pay for his services (more proof college players need more refinement heading into the league). Like I said, the draft is still following a pattern no different from the past. You're still going to have just a handful of supremely talented OL and spread QB's coming into the league going in the first two rounds evenly proportioned to their numbers and team needs. Sure, one year could be different from the next regarding talent pools but overall, is it really any different from the past 7 years or so?

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

It's not a bad offensive line though. Man people love that word "deflection"

It's simply pointing out there's a league wide issue at OL. It's pointing out you can have over $50M invested and numerous high end picks on the OL AND STILL be second in the league in sacks and have over 100 QB hits. It's PROOF that there's more to PP then just having money/picks invested into players. You need skilled positions, you need good QB play, you need good play-calling, you need good coaching, and in the case of SF you need to NOT have -25 turnover ratio....which put this team in a horrible position all yr.

How can you say it's not a bad OL when you just said you can't evaluate it until everyone is healthy- so by definition you're projecting (not bad) until Richburg is healthy right?

Richburg was a very good PP in NY. Joe is a very good pass protector and has been for a long time. McG needs to get better but from everything we're hearing in camp he's been lights out. That leaves the two guards. Which have been avg thus far. Imo that doesn't equal a s**t OL like cc stated.

What you don't think this OL could improve with better QB play, upgrades at the skilled position spot, and not having to deal with a -25 turnover ratio which leaves our offensive minded HC limited all yr? Those are all things that can change this yr realistically.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

It's not just NE. The Saints tend to consistently develop and produce good OLs, so do the Steelers for the most part.

It's clear that some teams are adapting. Being NFL ready doesn't mean the game and the development of players hasn't shifted. You could make the same argument for QB - how so few QBs are NFL-ready, yet it's no coincidence that head coaching prospects are offensive-minded QB guys who can spot and develop or fix a team's QB situation.

You do realize all those teams have had basically the same scheme for like 15+ yrs? They all have HOF QBs who are elite at reading defenses and know their scheme like the back of their hand.

good coaching plays a part no doubt. Being able to find scheme fit players is important regardless of the position. Let's not act like having bigBen/Brees/Brady doesn't help the OL overall.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Bentley works with a very small select group of OL

He works with numerous college and pro athletes. He gets to see guys at every level of competition.



When it comes to the current state of OL play in the NFL and football in general, I'm going to assume that guys like Bentley and Schlereth probably know best and they've been consistently saying the same things for years.



This isn't something that just happened, these issues with OL performance have been going on for at least a decade now. Its not a coincidence that OL went from one of the safest positions to select in the first two rounds to one of the riskiest. I made a whole thread about it in the draft forum a few years ago. It hasn't gotten any better since.