49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Just my opinion, but it's defense that let us down in both championships, not offense. Both times (i belive) in the 4th Qtr, 49ers led, and the 49er defense let the opposing team off the hook. Again just my opinion.

The secondary in particular.

Agree. Their philosophy of "great pass rush allows us to draft crap DB's" led to pass coverage breakdowns, in a sense, in both Superbowls.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Yup. Never once drafted a center- wild. K**e is that hiring manager who wants 25 years experience in AI/ML 😂

Why draft when you can get one in free agency. I recall Kyle landing Alex Mack in free agency. While it's not a draft, they got Brendel out of that. Brendel studied Mack (while Mack was here) and learned a lot from him and has a headlock on the position right now.

Its more left guard thats an issue this year vs the center position, so ShanaLynch drafting a guard versus a center was OK in my book, this time around.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Yup. Never once drafted a center- wild. K**e is that hiring manager who wants 25 years experience in AI/ML 😂

Why draft when you can get one in free agency. I recall Kyle landing Alex Mack in free agency. While it's not a draft, they got Brendel out of that. Brendel studied Mack (while Mack was here) and learned a lot from him and has a headlock on the position right now.

Its more left guard thats an issue this year vs the center position, so ShanaLynch drafting a guard versus a center was OK in my book, this time around.

Brendel cannot handle the better d line talent we typically face in the playoffs and it's brutal. Mack was good for the one season he was here and was certainly better than Brendel, who didn't learn enough from him in that short time span.

I am just over this regimes lack of attention to the o line. Until they try to actually add better talent there I don't expect different results.

I guess they drafted Black to try and plow through the three inch holes these guys open up for running lanes.

The team has money now. If they wanted to splurge they could offer one year contracts to Bosa, Joe Bitonio(G), and FS Harrison Smith-patch their remaining holes and go for broke. Would spending the money put them over Seattle and LA? Would these 3 stunt the development of their younger players? Bosa's the only one with an injury issue. I like the idea of older accomplished players wanting that one chance to play in the playoffs. Money should be reasonable in those cases.

O line is just one of many positions that fns want to see upgraded. Edge, interior D line, WR, RB, Safety, and Corner have all taken their turn as postions of need. The 49ers have tried to address their needs when the could and where they thought they could get an actual upgrade. They've had their share of misses just like every team.

Fans often have an unrealistic idea of how easy it is to draft or sign players that would be a nice fit. They seem to forget that many of the players the Niners could use are coveted by many other teams. The really good ones usually get picked before the 49ers turn. Free agents have to want to come here and they may chose another team for several reasons. Just because you want a certain player doesn't mean the Niners can just go get him.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
O line is just one of many positions that fns want to see upgraded. Edge, interior D line, WR, RB, Safety, and Corner have all taken their turn as postions of need. The 49ers have tried to address their needs when the could and where they thought they could get an actual upgrade. They've had their share of misses just like every team.

Fans often have an unrealistic idea of how easy it is to draft or sign players that would be a nice fit. They seem to forget that many of the players the Niners could use are coveted by many other teams. The really good ones usually get picked before the 49ers turn. Free agents have to want to come here and they may chose another team for several reasons. Just because you want a certain player doesn't mean the Niners can just go get him.

Agree. One way to get out of being poached of the player you want to draft is to radically change your offensive and defensive schemes, but there's a danger to that. What if the new scheme doesn't work?

So I doubt Kyle will change any of his schemes. I think the trading down is his draft evolution in response to all these teams poaching their coveted talent. Its a lot harder to poach in day two than day day one. Walsh started to trade down (example 1986 draft) when a lot of the NFL teams were using his systems via a lot of his assistants being hired as head coaches.

One reason it's a lot harder to poach in day two is because, past the first round, the players are harder to grade in my opinon. There are no sure fire blue chippers like a Trent Williams, Alex Mack or a CMC in the second round and later. Teams also tweak their systems in the offseason - so while they don't radically change their systems, they do subtly change parts of it. That can make player valuation radically different even between teams operating similar systems and philosophies past the first round.

Its my hope that ShanaLynch trade downs are executed more in the future. To a certain extent trade downs avoids the reach problem, and also adds potential depth for the annual injury bug. Again it depends on the draft class and draft positon. I wouldn't trade down the Bosa round 1, pick 2 positon for example.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Yup. Never once drafted a center- wild. K**e is that hiring manager who wants 25 years experience in AI/ML 😂

Why draft when you can get one in free agency. I recall Kyle landing Alex Mack in free agency. While it's not a draft, they got Brendel out of that. Brendel studied Mack (while Mack was here) and learned a lot from him and has a headlock on the position right now.

Its more left guard thats an issue this year vs the center position, so ShanaLynch drafting a guard versus a center was OK in my book, this time around.

Brendel cannot handle the better d line talent we typically face in the playoffs and it's brutal. Mack was good for the one season he was here and was certainly better than Brendel, who didn't learn enough from him in that short time span.

I am just over this regimes lack of attention to the o line. Until they try to actually add better talent there I don't expect different results.

I guess they drafted Black to try and plow through the three inch holes these guys open up for running lanes.

I share your concerns about the offensive line talent and development, but just my opinion - to me the 49er defense (specifically the defensive backfield) is the real issue in the playoffs.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Yup. Never once drafted a center- wild. K**e is that hiring manager who wants 25 years experience in AI/ML 😂

Why draft when you can get one in free agency. I recall Kyle landing Alex Mack in free agency. While it's not a draft, they got Brendel out of that. Brendel studied Mack (while Mack was here) and learned a lot from him and has a headlock on the position right now.

Its more left guard thats an issue this year vs the center position, so ShanaLynch drafting a guard versus a center was OK in my book, this time around.

Brendel cannot handle the better d line talent we typically face in the playoffs and it's brutal. Mack was good for the one season he was here and was certainly better than Brendel, who didn't learn enough from him in that short time span.

I am just over this regimes lack of attention to the o line. Until they try to actually add better talent there I don't expect different results.

I guess they drafted Black to try and plow through the three inch holes these guys open up for running lanes.

I share your concerns about the offensive line talent and development, but just my opinion - to me the 49er defense (specifically the defensive backfield) is the real issue in the playoffs.

There is no consensus on what the Niners biggest areas of concern are. They could use an upgrade at nearly every spot, even if its just depth. The needs change every year anyway because of injuries and free agency.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
There is no consensus on what the Niners biggest areas of concern are. They could use an upgrade at nearly every spot, even if its just depth. The needs change every year anyway because of injuries and free agency.

Well, again - its just an opinion. I think the OLine is fine with the addition of Carver and Enrique, they did *just enough* to get back into the playoffs (from an offensive line point of view). The Superbowl is another matter. I hear the 2027 OLine draft class is going to be another strong crop if Carver and Enrique don't quite pan out. We'll see.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well, again - its just an opinion. I think the OLine is fine with the addition of Carver and Enrique, they did *just enough* to get back into the playoffs (from an offensive line point of view). The Superbowl is another matter. I hear the 2027 OLine draft class is going to be another strong crop if Carver and Enrique don't quite pan out. We'll see.

It doesn't matter because no one in our roster can block Byron Murphy or Leonard Williams. We just keep doing the same in every off-season expecting different results.

Btw you say that the defense is the reason for our playoff losses but our offense averages 21 points per game in both Super Bowls.

We will never win a Super Bowl scoring 21 points but go tell that to our offensive genius

Originally posted by Monsterniner:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well, again - its just an opinion. I think the OLine is fine with the addition of Carver and Enrique, they did *just enough* to get back into the playoffs (from an offensive line point of view). The Superbowl is another matter. I hear the 2027 OLine draft class is going to be another strong crop if Carver and Enrique don't quite pan out. We'll see.

It doesn't matter because no one in our roster can block Byron Murphy or Leonard Williams. We just keep doing the same in every off-season expecting different results.

Btw you say that the defense is the reason for our playoff losses but our offense averages 21 points per game in both Super Bowls.

We will never win a Super Bowl scoring 21 points but go tell that to our offensive genius

This article gives some context to my point about defense. On offense, *everybody has to execute perfectly* for a play to work. Line has block, WR has to execute the correct route and catch the ball, and QB has to throw it accurately.

On defense, all it takes for the defense to win is for *one player* (for example) to blow up the pass protection, bump the WR off his route, or a DB dropping to an area the QB didn't see.

Joe and Steve didn't always have the greatest offenses, but those 5 Superbowl wins, they always had a top of the line defense. KC vs 49ers, KC had a great OLine that neutralized our DLine (via holding etc...) and exposed our subpar DB's and flawed defensive philosophy. KC also, by a small statistical margin, had the better defense (or defensive coach) in both Super Bowls.

It is one of football's fundamental truths: It is easier to be consistent on defense than on offense. Most modern offenses are high-tech mechanisms that run with precision and timing. If things are a little off -- the quarterback has a bad day, the receivers can't get their footing on a frozen field -- the machine breaks down. But a great defense is the same voracious beast every week. The Bears were proof of that.
https://www.nfl.com/news/great-offenses-grab-headlines-but-defense-wins-super-bowls-09000d5d80e2f758

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Yup. Never once drafted a center- wild. K**e is that hiring manager who wants 25 years experience in AI/ML 😂

Why draft when you can get one in free agency. I recall Kyle landing Alex Mack in free agency. While it's not a draft, they got Brendel out of that. Brendel studied Mack (while Mack was here) and learned a lot from him and has a headlock on the position right now.

Its more left guard thats an issue this year vs the center position, so ShanaLynch drafting a guard versus a center was OK in my book, this time around.

Brendel cannot handle the better d line talent we typically face in the playoffs and it's brutal. Mack was good for the one season he was here and was certainly better than Brendel, who didn't learn enough from him in that short time span.

I am just over this regimes lack of attention to the o line. Until they try to actually add better talent there I don't expect different results.

I guess they drafted Black to try and plow through the three inch holes these guys open up for running lanes.

I share your concerns about the offensive line talent and development, but just my opinion - to me the 49er defense (specifically the defensive backfield) is the real issue in the playoffs.

I agree safety is also terrible, but they are not in charge or protecting our franchise qb. If the o line was improved the defense would also be on the field a lot less.

it think we agree o line and safety/secondary are weak and they did almost nothing to upgrade it unless hopefully the 4th round guys pan out.

Originally posted by Monsterniner:
It doesn't matter because no one in our roster can block Byron Murphy or Leonard Williams. We just keep doing the same in every off-season expecting different results.

Btw you say that the defense is the reason for our playoff losses but our offense averages 21 points per game in both Super Bowls.

We will never win a Super Bowl scoring 21 points but go tell that to our offensive genius

But they can block Jordan Davis and Jalen Carter?

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I agree safety is also terrible, but they are not in charge or protecting our franchise qb. If the o line was improved the defense would also be on the field a lot less.

it think we agree o line and safety/secondary are weak and they did almost nothing to upgrade it unless hopefully the 4th round guys pan out.

Did far more on the o line. Did literally zero at safety.

Bitino would be a very good signing.

Injuries might be a concern.