49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Hard to draft a good center. Not a lot of NFL ready plug and play centers in the draft. The great ones are easy to name because they're pretty rare.

Is it though? Two of the best in the NFL were easily identified in Creed Humphrey and Zach Frazier; both WZ fan favorites and we talked about both for months leading up to their respective drafts

My point is there aren't many good centers. That's why I said it's easy to name the good ones. There may be one or 2 quality centers in each draft but that doesn't mean you can draft them. There are usually several teams drafting ahead of the Niners that may want a center. Even if one is available the Niners may feel they need to draft another player first. Center is rarely at the top of any team's list. Only about 8 centers were chosen in the 1st round in the last 25 years. Rounds 2-4 are where most get drafted and about half become solid starters. It woud be great to see a really good center anchoring the middle of the line but the 49ers have had too many other spots to fill. You also have to consider that few centers are suited for the zone blocking scheme that Kyle runs.

Humphrey was seleceted next to last in the 2nd round after Josh Myers. We all know they wanted a QB because JG kept getting hurt. Then they took Banks in the 2nd round. Center wasn't high on their list at that time because Alex Mack was still on their roster.

A lot of contradiction in your post:
So is it hard to draft a good center like you originally said or is it that they are choosing to draft another player first?

You said there are usually two quality centers in each draft but it doesn't mean you can draft them; and then say they are usually drafted in rounds 2-4……so why can't we draft them? Again….are they choosing not too like in Zach Frazier's case when he was available for us to draft but they chose Ricky Pearsall instead?

Then I have to consider that few centers are suited for a zone blocking scheme that Kyle runs…..even though like half the league runs an iteration of Kyle's system and zone blocking scheme?

They took Banks in the second round AHEAD of Creed Humphrey. What does the bold in your last paragraph have to do with the topic at hand? What point were you trying to make there?

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Hard to draft a good center. Not a lot of NFL ready plug and play centers in the draft. The great ones are easy to name because they're pretty rare.

Is it though? Two of the best in the NFL were easily identified in Creed Humphrey and Zach Frazier; both WZ fan favorites and we talked about both for months leading up to their respective drafts

My point is there aren't many good centers. That's why I said it's easy to name the good ones. There may be one or 2 quality centers in each draft but that doesn't mean you can draft them. There are usually several teams drafting ahead of the Niners that may want a center. Even if one is available the Niners may feel they need to draft another player first. Center is rarely at the top of any team's list. Only about 8 centers were chosen in the 1st round in the last 25 years. Rounds 2-4 are where most get drafted and about half become solid starters. It woud be great to see a really good center anchoring the middle of the line but the 49ers have had too many other spots to fill. You also have to consider that few centers are suited for the zone blocking scheme that Kyle runs.

Humphrey was seleceted next to last in the 2nd round after Josh Myers. We all know they wanted a QB because JG kept getting hurt. Then they took Banks in the 2nd round. Center wasn't high on their list at that time because Alex Mack was still on their roster.

Honestly, I don't think it matters. Kyle is probably never going to spend a top pick on a C. He likes his vets there. He's not going to trust a young player to make the calls at the LOS.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Hard to draft a good center. Not a lot of NFL ready plug and play centers in the draft. The great ones are easy to name because they're pretty rare.

Is it though? Two of the best in the NFL were easily identified in Creed Humphrey and Zach Frazier; both WZ fan favorites and we talked about both for months leading up to their respective drafts

My point is there aren't many good centers. That's why I said it's easy to name the good ones. There may be one or 2 quality centers in each draft but that doesn't mean you can draft them. There are usually several teams drafting ahead of the Niners that may want a center. Even if one is available the Niners may feel they need to draft another player first. Center is rarely at the top of any team's list. Only about 8 centers were chosen in the 1st round in the last 25 years. Rounds 2-4 are where most get drafted and about half become solid starters. It woud be great to see a really good center anchoring the middle of the line but the 49ers have had too many other spots to fill. You also have to consider that few centers are suited for the zone blocking scheme that Kyle runs.

Humphrey was seleceted next to last in the 2nd round after Josh Myers. We all know they wanted a QB because JG kept getting hurt. Then they took Banks in the 2nd round. Center wasn't high on their list at that time because Alex Mack was still on their roster.

A lot of contradiction in your post:
So is it hard to draft a good center like you originally said or is it that they are choosing to draft another player first?

You said there are usually two quality centers in each draft but it doesn't mean you can draft them; and then say they are usually drafted in rounds 2-4……so why can't we draft them? Again….are they choosing not too like in Zach Frazier's case when he was available for us to draft but they chose Ricky Pearsall instead?

Then I have to consider that few centers are suited for a zone blocking scheme that Kyle runs…..even though like half the league runs an iteration of Kyle's system and zone blocking scheme?

They took Banks in the second round AHEAD of Creed Humphrey. What does the bold in your last paragraph have to do with the topic at hand? What point were you trying to make there?

First of all I didn't say there are usually 2 quality centers in each draft. I said there may be. Some years there aren't any good ones. I pointed out that they still had Alex Mack at the time and center wasn't viewed as a priority

They used that first round pick on a QB so that was one chance to draft a quality O linemen. Then they picked Banks who was thought to be a quality guard prospect. He turned out just okay and had some injury problems. Humphrey was the next to last pick in round 2 so it's not like he was a can't miss guy. Two centers were taken ahead of him and he turned out better than either of them but that's the way it is with the draft. The only sure thing is retrospect.

Yes I know that several teams run a similar scheme as Kyle but that doesn't mean they all like the same type of linemen or view each player the same way. I don't visit other team's forums but I wonder if they all complian as much as Niner fans do about who their team picks.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Hard to draft a good center. Not a lot of NFL ready plug and play centers in the draft. The great ones are easy to name because they're pretty rare.

Is it though? Two of the best in the NFL were easily identified in Creed Humphrey and Zach Frazier; both WZ fan favorites and we talked about both for months leading up to their respective drafts

My point is there aren't many good centers. That's why I said it's easy to name the good ones. There may be one or 2 quality centers in each draft but that doesn't mean you can draft them. There are usually several teams drafting ahead of the Niners that may want a center. Even if one is available the Niners may feel they need to draft another player first. Center is rarely at the top of any team's list. Only about 8 centers were chosen in the 1st round in the last 25 years. Rounds 2-4 are where most get drafted and about half become solid starters. It woud be great to see a really good center anchoring the middle of the line but the 49ers have had too many other spots to fill. You also have to consider that few centers are suited for the zone blocking scheme that Kyle runs.

Humphrey was seleceted next to last in the 2nd round after Josh Myers. We all know they wanted a QB because JG kept getting hurt. Then they took Banks in the 2nd round. Center wasn't high on their list at that time because Alex Mack was still on their roster.

A lot of contradiction in your post:
So is it hard to draft a good center like you originally said or is it that they are choosing to draft another player first?

You said there are usually two quality centers in each draft but it doesn't mean you can draft them; and then say they are usually drafted in rounds 2-4……so why can't we draft them? Again….are they choosing not too like in Zach Frazier's case when he was available for us to draft but they chose Ricky Pearsall instead?

Then I have to consider that few centers are suited for a zone blocking scheme that Kyle runs…..even though like half the league runs an iteration of Kyle's system and zone blocking scheme?

They took Banks in the second round AHEAD of Creed Humphrey. What does the bold in your last paragraph have to do with the topic at hand? What point were you trying to make there?

First of all I didn't say there are usually 2 quality centers in each draft. I said there may be. Some years there aren't any good ones. I pointed out that they still had Alex Mack at the time and center wasn't viewed as a priority

They used that first round pick on a QB so that was one chance to draft a quality O linemen. Then they picked Banks who was thought to be a quality guard prospect. He turned out just okay and had some injury problems. Humphrey was the next to last pick in round 2 so it's not like he was a can't miss guy. Two centers were taken ahead of him and he turned out better than either of them but that's the way it is with the draft. The only sure thing is retrospect.

Yes I know that several teams run a similar scheme as Kyle but that doesn't mean they all like the same type of linemen or view each player the same way. I don't visit other team's forums but I wonder if they all complian as much as Niner fans do about who their team picks.

Don't know if you are trying to take some kind of shot at me with that comment; but please don't back pedal and resort to this. You're better than that. Point out to me in our exchange of posts where I complained about who our team picked; otherwise, keep it on the topic that is being discussed.

You said that it is hard to draft a good center. I refuted that and provided two recent examples of two good centers that were both identified and talked about for months in the draft thread of this site. Niners could have drafted both and didn't; by choice, not because they weren't available to draft cause other teams took them before they had an opportunity to pick a player.

Bottom line and point that I am making is that the 49ers themselves are choosing to not draft a center. It's not because they are hard to find or not available for us to pick or whatever else excuse will come up. OTC recently mentioned that they haven't drafted a center in their entire 10 year tenure of drafts.

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:
Honestly, I don't think it matters. Kyle is probably never going to spend a top pick on a C. He likes his vets there. He's not going to trust a young player to make the calls at the LOS.

Yup this. It seems to be his preference. It's for damn sure not because they are hard to find in the draft or not available for us too draft.

Originally posted by mcwoot:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by dlance:
Zakelj was a Tackle in collage. Jarrett Kingston played Guard and Tackle but his last year he was a Tackle. Carver Wills was a Tackle in collage they are moving to Guard. I think Conner Colby is the only Guard they have draft most of these are all 6th or 7th round pick with Carver being a 4th round pick last month. Try drafting someone that played center in collage in the second or third round and I think they will have better success finding Brendel replacement. I think it might be time for Nick Zakelj to go ? I hope Carver Willis and Enrique Cruz Jr work out and play better then all the backup they have. I do not see how all 3 can make the team unless the 49er keep more then 8 OL on 52 roster. How many did they keep last year ? do they keep 3 or 4 backups ? I really do not remember . five starters and 3 or 4 back ups . Back up are Brett Toth, Vederian Lowe , Austen Pleasants and who ? I have no problem if they cut Austen Pleasants I do not think he is very good. but they just signed all 3 of these guys so are they going to cut any of them? Are they going to injury reserve the rookies ? I just want then to draft someone better then Robert Jones, Brett Toth, Vederian Lowe and Austen Pleasants.

Other than left tackle and left guard, I think the 49ers can get by with average to good players at center, right guard and right tackle. Left Tackle and Guard have to be good because they protect the QB's blind side. If your QB goes down, the season is gone, unless you have Brock Purdy 2.0 at the QB#2 position. Kyle's scheme prioritizes speed and agility more than strength (the outside zone blocking). To a certain extent, in pass protection, the QB can see the rushers coming from the middle and the right and - with Purdy - his mobility can offset a weaker pass protection on the right side (if he sees the rusher).

That's not an ideal situation, but it's what the NFL gives you in terms of allowable talent. The Cap and Free agency are designed to erode talented depth on teams that have a lot of it. I don't think any team in the NFL has a solid line of all-pros across the board. So to a certain extent, you can get away with a Jake Brendel at the center position. Kyle got lucky with the Puni pick. He is a gem. Colton has developed into a good solid starter, not outstanding, but certainly above average.

Kyle's quick passing game offsets a need for a behemoth first round pass protector that can hold their run/pass blocks for an hour (in a sense). It's those long developing passing plays when the team is behind, is where Kyle's offense gets into big trouble. Kyle's offensive teams play ball control and play keep away while the Defense takes away, and that's how they've won a lot of games.

They can absolutely "get by" with 3/5 of the OL being mid. They can even win a lot of games. The question is if they can win a championship

Just my opinion, but it's defense that let us down in both championships, not offense. Both times (i belive) in the 4th Qtr, 49ers led, and the 49er defense let the opposing team off the hook. Again just my opinion.

Originally posted by Uwsaaww:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere1:
What does the team need to do in order for our O-Line to become better in pass protection?

I think they took one step today by releasing J.Martin.

Improving pass protection usually takes more than just swapping personnel. Coaching adjustments, better communication between linemen, and scheme tweaks (like using tight ends or backs to chip rushers) all matter. Releasing J. Martin might clear the way for someone stronger or more disciplined, but the real progress will come if the unit works together and the play-calling supports them. Consistency and cohesion are what turn an O-Line from shaky to reliable.

That involves a lot of offensive line reps, and the downside of that much practice reps is injuries - unfortunately.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Hard to draft a good center. Not a lot of NFL ready plug and play centers in the draft. The great ones are easy to name because they're pretty rare.

Is it though? Two of the best in the NFL were easily identified in Creed Humphrey and Zach Frazier; both WZ fan favorites and we talked about both for months leading up to their respective drafts

My point is there aren't many good centers. That's why I said it's easy to name the good ones. There may be one or 2 quality centers in each draft but that doesn't mean you can draft them. There are usually several teams drafting ahead of the Niners that may want a center. Even if one is available the Niners may feel they need to draft another player first. Center is rarely at the top of any team's list. Only about 8 centers were chosen in the 1st round in the last 25 years. Rounds 2-4 are where most get drafted and about half become solid starters. It woud be great to see a really good center anchoring the middle of the line but the 49ers have had too many other spots to fill. You also have to consider that few centers are suited for the zone blocking scheme that Kyle runs.

Humphrey was seleceted next to last in the 2nd round after Josh Myers. We all know they wanted a QB because JG kept getting hurt. Then they took Banks in the 2nd round. Center wasn't high on their list at that time because Alex Mack was still on their roster.

A lot of contradiction in your post:
So is it hard to draft a good center like you originally said or is it that they are choosing to draft another player first?

You said there are usually two quality centers in each draft but it doesn't mean you can draft them; and then say they are usually drafted in rounds 2-4……so why can't we draft them? Again….are they choosing not too like in Zach Frazier's case when he was available for us to draft but they chose Ricky Pearsall instead?

Then I have to consider that few centers are suited for a zone blocking scheme that Kyle runs…..even though like half the league runs an iteration of Kyle's system and zone blocking scheme?

They took Banks in the second round AHEAD of Creed Humphrey. What does the bold in your last paragraph have to do with the topic at hand? What point were you trying to make there?

First of all I didn't say there are usually 2 quality centers in each draft. I said there may be. Some years there aren't any good ones. I pointed out that they still had Alex Mack at the time and center wasn't viewed as a priority

They used that first round pick on a QB so that was one chance to draft a quality O linemen. Then they picked Banks who was thought to be a quality guard prospect. He turned out just okay and had some injury problems. Humphrey was the next to last pick in round 2 so it's not like he was a can't miss guy. Two centers were taken ahead of him and he turned out better than either of them but that's the way it is with the draft. The only sure thing is retrospect.

Yes I know that several teams run a similar scheme as Kyle but that doesn't mean they all like the same type of linemen or view each player the same way. I don't visit other team's forums but I wonder if they all complian as much as Niner fans do about who their team picks.

Don't know if you are trying to take some kind of shot at me with that comment; but please don't back pedal and resort to this. You're better than that. Point out to me in our exchange of posts where I complained about who our team picked; otherwise, keep it on the topic that is being discussed.

You said that it is hard to draft a good center. I refuted that and provided two recent examples of two good centers that were both identified and talked about for months in the draft thread of this site. Niners could have drafted both and didn't; by choice, not because they weren't available to draft cause other teams took them before they had an opportunity to pick a player.

Bottom line and point that I am making is that the 49ers themselves are choosing to not draft a center. It's not because they are hard to find or not available for us to pick or whatever else excuse will come up. OTC recently mentioned that they haven't drafted a center in their entire 10 year tenure of drafts.

Yup. Never once drafted a center- wild. K**e is that hiring manager who wants 25 years experience in AI/ML 😂

Originally posted by Giedi:
Just my opinion, but it's defense that let us down in both championships, not offense. Both times (i belive) in the 4th Qtr, 49ers led, and the 49er defense let the opposing team off the hook. Again just my opinion.

The secondary in particular.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Yup. Never once drafted a center- wild. K**e is that hiring manager who wants 25 years experience in AI/ML 😂

Yep the last good Center this team drafted was Newberry in 1998, Absolutely Ridiculous.

Originally posted by Oilcan:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Yup. Never once drafted a center- wild. K**e is that hiring manager who wants 25 years experience in AI/ML 😂

Yep the last good Center this team drafted was Newberry in 1998, Absolutely Ridiculous.

I remember when we drafted that kid Martin out of USC under Baalke, in the 3rd round I believe, man I was so happy cause I was soooo over Kilgore. Didn't work but that's besides the point 🤣

Originally posted by 49ers808:
I remember when we drafted that kid Martin out of USC under Baalke, in the 3rd round I believe, man I was so happy cause I was soooo over Kilgore. Didn't work but that's besides the point 🤣

The vast majority of the time it doesn't work out. For instance, the giants have poured an insane amount of draft capital into OL picks and they have one of the worst in the NFL.

I think people just want us to take some swings like we do with RBs and WRs

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by 49ers808:
I remember when we drafted that kid Martin out of USC under Baalke, in the 3rd round I believe, man I was so happy cause I was soooo over Kilgore. Didn't work but that's besides the point 🤣

The vast majority of the time it doesn't work out. For instance, the giants have poured an insane amount of draft capital into OL picks and they have one of the worst in the NFL.

I think people just want us to take some swings like we do with RBs and WRs

Both true statements. I mean they always preach trenches and to their credit; have stated that the DL is where their focus is from the beginning. But the offensive line is just as important to the offense as the defensive line is to the defense. Even half of the resources/investment that is spent on the defensive line going towards the offensive line would go a long ways.

Hope Willis and Cruz hit.

Some posts in this thread imply that if you can't land a premium high first rounder that there is nothing else until the late rounds.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by dlance:
I disagree they have gone out of there way to praise Brendel. They have not drafted or signed anyone to complete for the starter spot. They have only signed backup and draft OT that might move to center like Brett Toth and Carver Willis. I agree they can win a super bowl with him if everyone ells is playing well.

Yeah, I don't think they've tried to replace Brendel either. I'm ready for his replacement. We could obviously do worse than him but we can also do way better. It isn't like he's some badass center. He's the definition of mediocre to me. We need to improve the IOL, especially against teams like Seattle.

id like to see Toth get some opportunities there.

Several teams scouting Puni at C. If he is heady enough to run the line calls I'd love to see him there.