49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by replikante:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Yup,
Year = overall grade = run block grade = pass block grade
2025 = 70.4 = 74.1 = 59.0 = 12th of 40 qualified centers
2024 = 65.0 = 71.6 = 55.1 = Ranked 12th in overall blocking (minimum 800 snaps)
2023 = 66.0 = 70.5 = 45.3 = Strong run blocking continued from '22

A good sign is that Brendel is improving (according to PFF) overall. Specially his run blocking. But I'm with the folks who think we can upgrade that center spot with the players on the current squad - if given the chance.

and that 59.0 pass block grade ranked 31st btwin the centers last season,... so he's one of the worsts pass blocking centers in the league,... the 55,1 and 45,3 that he graded the years before were also btwin the worsts,... and that's something that always comes to hurt the team in the most importants moments,... he's always very badly beaten in the important games

time to plan for his replacement,.... not for his extension at 34 yo

Agree he's not the most talented Center in the NFL, and no doubt the 49ers have been trying to replace him since he's been the starter. One thing I will say is that he's *durable* (kock on wood) and availability is also *ability.* He's pretty good in general (Pass and run block) unless he faces a dominant and agile DT. Not every team has a dominant DT like a Chris Jones in the middle of their defense. Unfortunately the elite teams *do* have them. So for a majority of the season, Brendel's just a great player to have in the center position. It's in the playoffs when he gets in trouble. Still we can win a Superbowl with Brendel if the other pieces in the offensive line are upgraded, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by replikante:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Yup,
Year = overall grade = run block grade = pass block grade
2025 = 70.4 = 74.1 = 59.0 = 12th of 40 qualified centers
2024 = 65.0 = 71.6 = 55.1 = Ranked 12th in overall blocking (minimum 800 snaps)
2023 = 66.0 = 70.5 = 45.3 = Strong run blocking continued from '22

A good sign is that Brendel is improving (according to PFF) overall. Specially his run blocking. But I'm with the folks who think we can upgrade that center spot with the players on the current squad - if given the chance.

and that 59.0 pass block grade ranked 31st btwin the centers last season,... so he's one of the worsts pass blocking centers in the league,... the 55,1 and 45,3 that he graded the years before were also btwin the worsts,... and that's something that always comes to hurt the team in the most importants moments,... he's always very badly beaten in the important games

time to plan for his replacement,.... not for his extension at 34 yo

Agree he's not the most talented Center in the NFL, and no doubt the 49ers have been trying to replace him since he's been the starter. One thing I will say is that he's *durable* (kock on wood) and availability is also *ability.* He's pretty good in general (Pass and run block) unless he faces a dominant and agile DT. Not every team has a dominant DT like a Chris Jones in the middle of their defense. Unfortunately the elite teams *do* have them. So for a majority of the season, Brendel's just a great player to have in the center position. It's in the playoffs when he gets in trouble. Still we can win a Superbowl with Brendel if the other pieces in the offensive line are upgraded, in my opinion.

I disagree they have gone out of there way to praise Brendel. They have not drafted or signed anyone to complete for the starter spot. They have only signed backup and draft OT that might move to center like Brett Toth and Carver Willis. I agree they can win a super bowl with him if everyone ells is playing well.

Originally posted by replikante:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Yup,
Year = overall grade = run block grade = pass block grade
2025 = 70.4 = 74.1 = 59.0 = 12th of 40 qualified centers
2024 = 65.0 = 71.6 = 55.1 = Ranked 12th in overall blocking (minimum 800 snaps)
2023 = 66.0 = 70.5 = 45.3 = Strong run blocking continued from '22

A good sign is that Brendel is improving (according to PFF) overall. Specially his run blocking. But I'm with the folks who think we can upgrade that center spot with the players on the current squad - if given the chance.

and that 59.0 pass block grade ranked 31st btwin the centers last season,... so he's one of the worsts pass blocking centers in the league,... the 55,1 and 45,3 that he graded the years before were also btwin the worsts,... and that's something that always comes to hurt the team in the most importants moments,... he's always very badly beaten in the important games

time to plan for his replacement,.... not for his extension at 34 yo

I agree. They have brought in some promising free agents and some young rookie draftees with a lot of athleticism. I really am looking forward to preseason and how all the new players handle their assignment. If they can hut on another Puni 2.0 in the draft for the center position, I'd be ecstatic.

Originally posted by dlance:
I disagree they have gone out of there way to praise Brendel. They have not drafted or signed anyone to complete for the starter spot. They have only signed backup and draft OT that might move to center like Brett Toth and Carver Willis. I agree they can win a super bowl with him if everyone ells is playing well.

I think they have been bringing in players to compete with Brendel, but in their mind, out of all the players they have brought in, Brendel outcompeted them. I don't necessarily agree with them on that point, but it's not like they ignored the Center Position in the draft.

Zakelj was drafted in '22, they lost Jarrett Kingston in 2024 (big mistake in my book), I think Conner Colby and Carver Willis can play either at Left Guard or Center. Key for that center is to know the blitz pickups and have the protection calls down 100%. A free blitzer blindsiding your QB can destroy your season by injuring the QB, so you have to be cautious in Kyle's offense when replacing that center position.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by dlance:
I disagree they have gone out of there way to praise Brendel. They have not drafted or signed anyone to complete for the starter spot. They have only signed backup and draft OT that might move to center like Brett Toth and Carver Willis. I agree they can win a super bowl with him if everyone ells is playing well.

I think they have been bringing in players to compete with Brendel, but in their mind, out of all the players they have brought in, Brendel outcompeted them. I don't necessarily agree with them on that point, but it's not like they ignored the Center Position in the draft.

Zakelj was drafted in '22, they lost Jarrett Kingston in 2024 (big mistake in my book), I think Conner Colby and Carver Willis can play either at Left Guard or Center. Key for that center is to know the blitz pickups and have the protection calls down 100%. A free blitzer blindsiding your QB can destroy your season by injuring the QB, so you have to be cautious in Kyle's offense when replacing that center position.

Zakelj was a Tackle in collage. Jarrett Kingston played Guard and Tackle but his last year he was a Tackle. Carver Wills was a Tackle in collage they are moving to Guard. I think Conner Colby is the only Guard they have draft most of these are all 6th or 7th round pick with Carver being a 4th round pick last month. Try drafting someone that played center in collage in the second or third round and I think they will have better success finding Brendel replacement. I think it might be time for Nick Zakelj to go ? I hope Carver Willis and Enrique Cruz Jr work out and play better then all the backup they have. I do not see how all 3 can make the team unless the 49er keep more then 8 OL on 52 roster. How many did they keep last year ? do they keep 3 or 4 backups ? I really do not remember . five starters and 3 or 4 back ups . Back up are Brett Toth, Vederian Lowe , Austen Pleasants and who ? I have no problem if they cut Austen Pleasants I do not think he is very good. but they just signed all 3 of these guys so are they going to cut any of them? Are they going to injury reserve the rookies ? I just want then to draft someone better then Robert Jones, Brett Toth, Vederian Lowe and Austen Pleasants.

Originally posted by dlance:
Zakelj was a Tackle in collage. Jarrett Kingston played Guard and Tackle but his last year he was a Tackle. Carver Wills was a Tackle in collage they are moving to Guard. I think Conner Colby is the only Guard they have draft most of these are all 6th or 7th round pick with Carver being a 4th round pick last month. Try drafting someone that played center in collage in the second or third round and I think they will have better success finding Brendel replacement. I think it might be time for Nick Zakelj to go ? I hope Carver Willis and Enrique Cruz Jr work out and play better then all the backup they have. I do not see how all 3 can make the team unless the 49er keep more then 8 OL on 52 roster. How many did they keep last year ? do they keep 3 or 4 backups ? I really do not remember . five starters and 3 or 4 back ups . Back up are Brett Toth, Vederian Lowe , Austen Pleasants and who ? I have no problem if they cut Austen Pleasants I do not think he is very good. but they just signed all 3 of these guys so are they going to cut any of them? Are they going to injury reserve the rookies ? I just want then to draft someone better then Robert Jones, Brett Toth, Vederian Lowe and Austen Pleasants.

Other than left tackle and left guard, I think the 49ers can get by with average to good players at center, right guard and right tackle. Left Tackle and Guard have to be good because they protect the QB's blind side. If your QB goes down, the season is gone, unless you have Brock Purdy 2.0 at the QB#2 position. Kyle's scheme prioritizes speed and agility more than strength (the outside zone blocking). To a certain extent, in pass protection, the QB can see the rushers coming from the middle and the right and - with Purdy - his mobility can offset a weaker pass protection on the right side (if he sees the rusher).

That's not an ideal situation, but it's what the NFL gives you in terms of allowable talent. The Cap and Free agency are designed to erode talented depth on teams that have a lot of it. I don't think any team in the NFL has a solid line of all-pros across the board. So to a certain extent, you can get away with a Jake Brendel at the center position. Kyle got lucky with the Puni pick. He is a gem. Colton has developed into a good solid starter, not outstanding, but certainly above average.

Kyle's quick passing game offsets a need for a behemoth first round pass protector that can hold their run/pass blocks for an hour (in a sense). It's those long developing passing plays when the team is behind, is where Kyle's offense gets into big trouble. Kyle's offensive teams play ball control and play keep away while the Defense takes away, and that's how they've won a lot of games.

Originally posted by dlance:
I disagree they have gone out of there way to praise Brendel. They have not drafted or signed anyone to complete for the starter spot. They have only signed backup and draft OT that might move to center like Brett Toth and Carver Willis. I agree they can win a super bowl with him if everyone ells is playing well.

Yeah, I don't think they've tried to replace Brendel either. I'm ready for his replacement. We could obviously do worse than him but we can also do way better. It isn't like he's some badass center. He's the definition of mediocre to me. We need to improve the IOL, especially against teams like Seattle.

id like to see Toth get some opportunities there.

Originally posted by InsertNameHere1:
What does the team need to do in order for our O-Line to become better in pass protection?

I think they took one step today by releasing J.Martin.

Improving pass protection usually takes more than just swapping personnel. Coaching adjustments, better communication between linemen, and scheme tweaks (like using tight ends or backs to chip rushers) all matter. Releasing J. Martin might clear the way for someone stronger or more disciplined, but the real progress will come if the unit works together and the play-calling supports them. Consistency and cohesion are what turn an O-Line from shaky to reliable.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by dlance:
I disagree they have gone out of there way to praise Brendel. They have not drafted or signed anyone to complete for the starter spot. They have only signed backup and draft OT that might move to center like Brett Toth and Carver Willis. I agree they can win a super bowl with him if everyone ells is playing well.

Yeah, I don't think they've tried to replace Brendel either. I'm ready for his replacement. We could obviously do worse than him but we can also do way better. It isn't like he's some badass center. He's the definition of mediocre to me. We need to improve the IOL, especially against teams like Seattle.

id like to see Toth get some opportunities there.

You will get the same o line and enjoy another letdown in the playoffs.

Hard to draft a good center. Not a lot of NFL ready plug and play centers in the draft. The great ones are easy to name because they're pretty rare.

Who needs an O-line?

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Hard to draft a good center. Not a lot of NFL ready plug and play centers in the draft. The great ones are easy to name because they're pretty rare.

Is it though? Two of the best in the NFL were easily identified in Creed Humphrey and Zach Frazier; both WZ fan favorites and we talked about both for months leading up to their respective drafts

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Hard to draft a good center. Not a lot of NFL ready plug and play centers in the draft. The great ones are easy to name because they're pretty rare.

Is it though? Two of the best in the NFL were easily identified in Creed Humphrey and Zach Frazier; both WZ fan favorites and we talked about both for months leading up to their respective drafts

My point is there aren't many good centers. That's why I said it's easy to name the good ones. There may be one or 2 quality centers in each draft but that doesn't mean you can draft them. There are usually several teams drafting ahead of the Niners that may want a center. Even if one is available the Niners may feel they need to draft another player first. Center is rarely at the top of any team's list. Only about 8 centers were chosen in the 1st round in the last 25 years. Rounds 2-4 are where most get drafted and about half become solid starters. It woud be great to see a really good center anchoring the middle of the line but the 49ers have had too many other spots to fill. You also have to consider that few centers are suited for the zone blocking scheme that Kyle runs.

Humphrey was seleceted next to last in the 2nd round after Josh Myers. We all know they wanted a QB because JG kept getting hurt. Then they took Banks in the 2nd round. Center wasn't high on their list at that time because Alex Mack was still on their roster.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by dlance:
Zakelj was a Tackle in collage. Jarrett Kingston played Guard and Tackle but his last year he was a Tackle. Carver Wills was a Tackle in collage they are moving to Guard. I think Conner Colby is the only Guard they have draft most of these are all 6th or 7th round pick with Carver being a 4th round pick last month. Try drafting someone that played center in collage in the second or third round and I think they will have better success finding Brendel replacement. I think it might be time for Nick Zakelj to go ? I hope Carver Willis and Enrique Cruz Jr work out and play better then all the backup they have. I do not see how all 3 can make the team unless the 49er keep more then 8 OL on 52 roster. How many did they keep last year ? do they keep 3 or 4 backups ? I really do not remember . five starters and 3 or 4 back ups . Back up are Brett Toth, Vederian Lowe , Austen Pleasants and who ? I have no problem if they cut Austen Pleasants I do not think he is very good. but they just signed all 3 of these guys so are they going to cut any of them? Are they going to injury reserve the rookies ? I just want then to draft someone better then Robert Jones, Brett Toth, Vederian Lowe and Austen Pleasants.

Other than left tackle and left guard, I think the 49ers can get by with average to good players at center, right guard and right tackle. Left Tackle and Guard have to be good because they protect the QB's blind side. If your QB goes down, the season is gone, unless you have Brock Purdy 2.0 at the QB#2 position. Kyle's scheme prioritizes speed and agility more than strength (the outside zone blocking). To a certain extent, in pass protection, the QB can see the rushers coming from the middle and the right and - with Purdy - his mobility can offset a weaker pass protection on the right side (if he sees the rusher).

That's not an ideal situation, but it's what the NFL gives you in terms of allowable talent. The Cap and Free agency are designed to erode talented depth on teams that have a lot of it. I don't think any team in the NFL has a solid line of all-pros across the board. So to a certain extent, you can get away with a Jake Brendel at the center position. Kyle got lucky with the Puni pick. He is a gem. Colton has developed into a good solid starter, not outstanding, but certainly above average.

Kyle's quick passing game offsets a need for a behemoth first round pass protector that can hold their run/pass blocks for an hour (in a sense). It's those long developing passing plays when the team is behind, is where Kyle's offense gets into big trouble. Kyle's offensive teams play ball control and play keep away while the Defense takes away, and that's how they've won a lot of games.

They can absolutely "get by" with 3/5 of the OL being mid. They can even win a lot of games. The question is if they can win a championship