49ers Offensive Line

Probably already talked about but I was talking to someone about how bad the 49ers oline is. The popular belief around other fans is that the 49ers have a good oline. Looking up rankings, primarily pass blocking rankings, every single place has the 49ers ranked 11th to 15th last year in pass blocking, proving me wrong and I didn't know how to argue against that.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
The team won because they made plays but we all knew the OL was the weak point. We said it going into that season, we said it during the season and it wasn't a shocker that after Feliciano got hurt that it reared itself at the worst time.

I agree with you that our guys didn't make plays in crunch time. I posted about it before and ironically for all the Avengers talk you can make the case that the best player on offense was Jauan Jennings who was an afterthought for most people not following the team closely.

But I'm sorry man anyone reading your posts and knowing your post history can see the bias against Brock. You are the one who brought up how much guys were getting paid - included Brock in the bad and forgot to include Trent Williams. If it wasn't on purpose then it's certainly subconscious with you.

Just read the bold lines above and tell me your expectation for a QB making less than the punter is legit. I never said you hate Brock but your posts on him are well documented and there is clear "i want to be right about him" slant in your posts.

He was 3-12 on 3rd down vs an elite defense with OL struggling(something you want to brush off and just concentrate on Brock apparently) do you think OL play could impact his ability to convert on those downs?

Let's look at them, here are the 3rd downs and distances from the SB
3rd and 19
3rd and 9 - converted
3rd and 14
3rd and 9
3rd and 15
3rd and 11
3rd and 10
3rd and 5 - converted
3rd and 2 - run for -1 yards, 4th and 3 converted by Brock
3rd and 5 - the 2 min play
3rd and 13 - converted cuz of penalty on KC
3rd and 2 - converted
3rd and 4 - Burford play

So outside of the 2 key plays we've talked about. We almost had no 3rd and mid/short situations all game long.

You had a 2nd year QB who made those plays when they matter to get the team to the SB in the two playoff games before whose so called Avengers took the day off to a degree but sure let's ignore the OL making mistakes either on those 3rd downs or putting them in position for those 3rd downs being long as hell most of the game.

Let's just agree that in order to win a SB our guys have to make key plays in order to close out those games. So far whether in 2019 or 2023 we failed to do that. Unfortunately injuries and the way the games are officiated don't help us close them out but both games were there for the taking and we failed. I'm simply tired of seeing our seasons end once the run game isn't clicking or able to run vs 5+ man fronts or loaded boxes and then we get exposed in pass pro when forced to pass.

I trust that Purdy learned a valuable lesson on that blitz fail. I hope Burford learned his lesson as well. And I'm hopeful that we're built to handle teams who play heavy press against our guys. Hopefully with no Deebo to feed, we'll have a better approach when teams choose to attack us that way - throw to Kittle!!!

So this is where EVERY posts ends up. "Nah man you're bias" blah blah dude. I'm at the point where I'm just gonna stop talking to people on here that refer to that crap, instead of having a level headed convo. Right about what? He's our QB, I want him to be amazing.

I don't have to think Brock is the next Joe Montana in order to think he's a good QB. I think there's a area of fandom where we're allowed to criticize our QB (or whomever) AND also be happy he's our guy….I don't need to be "grateful" for him or any player for being on the team I root for. No one is above being criticized, especially when we fail to make it all the way (yes same is true for Kyle).

so Brock played zero part in any of those 3rd in longs? He isn't responsible to try and make any plays? Nah it's only him when things are good…when it's not perfect it's everything else around him …This is the silly stuff I can't stand.

look I understand the frustration. Yes the OL isn't top 5 in the league. It's never had to be for them to get to SBs and NFCCs. We live and die on the backs of our star players…when they don't show up, I blame them much more than I do others. That's my point and if you disagree fine. Saying I'm bias or trying to turn this into some dumb I have distain for Brock quest ain't it. I got no problem telling everyone if I think a player stinks. I don't need to hide my point.

yes throw the ball to our best players. Yes our best players on defense need to hit the QB and get turnovers. Yes our QB needs to make s**t happen, even when it's not the easiest of situations to make something happen. Yes they need to do this when it matters most…if not then we aren't gonna win a SB.

I'm simply responding to your posts and trying to explain to you why it looks that way. You and I have agreed on a lot of things to the point that people accused us of being the same person.

I just think the idea that we shouldn't blame the OL because they weren't our key piece is silly.

Your own post showed you were blaming the highly paid guys who didn't come up big in that game…while mentioning Brock and not bringing up Trent.

Yes Brock was responsible for some bad throws on those 3rd downs but if we're being genuine those downs are not a recipe for a high success rate. Especially if you don't have a dominant OL and the skill players everyone called the Avengers didn't show up consistently.

Either way I'm ready to move on to this season and hope now that Brock is paid we're going to see the best version of him every year to come as long as he's a 49er.

But we shouldn't excuse bad OL play because we all know they're all connected on offense and when teams play man coverage and our guys aren't great at beating their defenders…OL better protect longer than usual. Thats our Achilles heel so far…tho I still maintain had Dre kept his intact we still win that game with all the other BS.

Originally posted by genus49:
I'm simply responding to your posts and trying to explain to you why it looks that way. You and I have agreed on a lot of things to the point that people accused us of being the same person.

I just think the idea that we shouldn't blame the OL because they weren't our key piece is silly.

Your own post showed you were blaming the highly paid guys who didn't come up big in that game…while mentioning Brock and not bringing up Trent.

Yes Brock was responsible for some bad throws on those 3rd downs but if we're being genuine those downs are not a recipe for a high success rate. Especially if you don't have a dominant OL and the skill players everyone called the Avengers didn't show up consistently.

Either way I'm ready to move on to this season and hope now that Brock is paid we're going to see the best version of him every year to come as long as he's a 49er.

But we shouldn't excuse bad OL play because we all know they're all connected on offense and when teams play man coverage and our guys aren't great at beating their defenders…OL better protect longer than usual. Thats our Achilles heel so far…tho I still maintain had Dre kept his intact we still win that game with all the other BS.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to criticize the OL. We all know they're not a top end group in the league. Doesn't matter because we have other top end groups all over the roster, that others don't have. They didn't show up when it mattered most.

Trent is Trent, even his worst day is better than 80% of the tackles in this league. he wasn't at his best that day either.

We shouldn't excuse poor QB play or poor edge rush play or poor LBer play or poor TE/WR play in favor to push the already known idea that this OL isn't "dominant"….guess what they never had to be dominant to get to NFCC and SBs to begin with. When the top end elite guys don't play well it trickles down and affects everyone.

The OL gets blame tho. This doesn't absolve Purdy from getting blame.

I think one of you think it does, while the other one doesn't.

Originally posted by random49er:
The OL gets blame tho. This doesn't absolve Purdy from getting blame.

I think one of you think it does, while the other one doesn't.

I think this team has won a s**t ton of games with an avg to below avg OL. I think we've won a ton of games because we have elite players all over the place (not at every lineman spot) and I think when those elite level players don't show up at the most important time, we lose.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Chance:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Chance:
There was a lot of blame to go around. Trent with uncharacteristic drive killing penalties, CMC with an uncharacteristic fumble, Deebo being a shell of his dominant self, Greenlaw tearing his achilles, an unlucky ball landing on the PRs foot, DC dialing up some pretty s**t calls towards the end (Anyone going to spy on the QB??), etc etc. We know the story. It was a team failure with mistake, missed opportunities, injuries, and bad luck. Even though Brock could have iced the game after the 2-minute warning, I put very little blame on his shoulders. He generally performed very well against a terrific defense and put us in the lead with multiple clutch drives.

All that said, holy s**t was Burford's decision to abandon his assignment a crucial mistake. Just standing in front of Chris Jones would have probably bought Purdy the time to let Jennings' route to develop. I genuinely feel bad for Burford, as he gets a lion-share of the blame, but regardless, it wasn't a bad beat, it was a guy free-wheeling on the most important play of his career, and when Purdy was dealing in the clutch.

purdy wasn't 'dealing' at much of any point of that SB. granted our WRs namely deebo was clamped all game. the entire gameplan was focused on CMC and same with this last SB focused on Saquon. hard to blame burford a ton. that whole play was wack. i posted a former NFL OL player talking about that play and how it was bad in a bunch of respects. so add shanny to the list of blame. spags kinda won the chess match on that one.

The play was fine. Sure, maybe the pulling lineman was unnecessary in hindsight, but it wasn't a complicated play. Burford knew his assignment and simply decided to freelance and let Chris Jones, the inside rusher, have a free rush right at the QB. Everyone does their job, there's a good chance that's a TD as Jennings and Aiyuk beat their coverage.

And Purdy was dealing in the 4th and overtime. He was moving our offense up and down the field when we needed him most. He was protecting the ball and doing his job, again, against the best defense in the game that season. He completed 69% of his passes for 107 yards, 1 TD and 0 INT in the 4th and OT. In the highest pressure situation imaginable, that's f**king dealing. He was not the reason we lost, even close to it. We lost because of bad luck, inconsistent play from our future HOFers, injuries, and an olineman who moved out of the way of his assignment.

guy had 1 TD in 5 quarters and we are settling for field goals in the 4th and OT,

Not surprising you wholly leave out the context:

1st Half:
1) McCaffrey fumbles near the red zone
2) Trent Williams back-to-back penalties after SF crossed into KC territory, forced to punt
3) Another drive stalls after two straight runs go nowhere and the third and long results in sack when McKivitz gets beat.

SF scores TD and FG on the only other two drives.

3rd Quarter: KC switches from zone to man, Purdy and WRs struggle to adjust. 3 drives, 3 punts

4th Quarter and OT: 3 Drives - TD, FG, FG

So by my count, our 2nd year QB led scoring drives on 5 of the 11 total drives against the best defense in the game that season. Three of those drives were killed by a CMAC fumble, two Trent Williams penalties that made a 2nd and 27, and a drive which two running plays went nowhere and the third and long was poorly blocked by McKivitz. So by my math, even if we leave out the context of the third quarter, Purdy was successful on 5 of the 8 drives there wasn't something out of his control that killed the drive.

Further, perhaps he would have had more than one TD, had McCaffrey not fumbled near the redzone, or Burford not blown his assignment in OT when both Aiyuk and Jennings beat their man.

settling for field goals, with a kicker where it's anyones guess what area code the ball will get kicked into

we are lucky moody hits his kick. we know moody is erratic as all get out, and if misses a long bomb FG we just get walked off in regulation. go to OT we are nearly picked on that OT drive, needed a D penalty to get the drive moving.

Irrelevant.

at best, you can point the blame at coach and WRs for not winning the battles. i think that makes sense. it's telling coach goes out and drafts multiple WRs who can uncover including round 1 not long after this game. but this is round 2 vs KC. i wanted to see an SF team more ready for spags the 2nd go around. didn't happen, no matter how you wanna assign the blame game. i can repost the breakdown on the pass pro and OL they go over that play like it's black box from a plane crash.

Plenty of blame to go all around. And plenty of things that happened that were just s**t luck (Greenlaw/Feliciano injuries, punt lands on heel of returner).

But you've always been a Purdy hater, so I'm not surprised you are playing the part of diminishing his play in the game, all the while excusing the play of others. Like I said, Purdy deserves the least amount of blame. He played well, but he was not perfect. Had he hit Aiyuk on the slant, he might be a superbowl hero, but he misread that blitz. Still, of all the players who missed or made mistakes, Purdy was among the least culpable.

I don't need you to go over the missed assignment by Burford. That horse has been beaten to death by a stick. Anyone who doesn't levy 99% of the blame on the guy who decided to abandon his assignment, is wrong. Burford himself admitted to such. Case f**king closed.

He leaves out the context intentionally chance because he wants to pretend Brock isn't a massive upgrade over his binky Jimmy. If it were up to faithful the 9ers would be starting Daniel Jones instead.

speaking of Jimmy G, here's a impersonation:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
speaking of Jimmy G, here's a impersonation:

Uh, aiyuk is running at half speed for whatever reason. Either it was an option route that aiyuk misread or.... He didn't know the play, no idea. Purdy put it at the back of the end zone where aiyuk could get it but not the safety. If he threw where aiyuk ended his route....that is a tight contested throw

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
speaking of Jimmy G, here's a impersonation:

Uh, aiyuk is running at half speed for whatever reason. Either it was an option route that aiyuk misread or.... He didn't know the play, no idea. Purdy put it at the back of the end zone where aiyuk could get it but not the safety. If he threw where aiyuk ended his route....that is a tight contested throw

Purdy put it where Aiyuk had no chance at all of getting to it. Aiyuk has a clear step when the ball is in the air as he runs pass the defender(who is side stepping then reacts when he sees the ball in the air and Aiyuk passing him). At least give him a chance, there's a clean pocket with no pressure. Everyone always hating on the Oline, but never mentions the times where he is given time and does nothing with it.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
speaking of Jimmy G, here's a impersonation:

Uh, aiyuk is running at half speed for whatever reason. Either it was an option route that aiyuk misread or.... He didn't know the play, no idea. Purdy put it at the back of the end zone where aiyuk could get it but not the safety. If he threw where aiyuk ended his route....that is a tight contested throw

Purdy put it where Aiyuk had no chance at all of getting to it. Aiyuk has a clear step when the ball is in the air as he runs pass the defender(who is side stepping then reacts when he sees the ball in the air and Aiyuk passing him). At least give him a chance, there's a clean pocket with no pressure. Everyone always hating on the Oline, but never mentions the times where he is given time and does nothing with it.

You're kidding right? The play is covered when Purdy throws it. Aiyuk gets lost tracking the ball and doesn't get to it. You could make a case it's a miss even if Aiyuk keeps running full speed but there is also a case to be made if they're on the same page and Aiyuk just keeps running he's there to make the catch, check how much time passes from the time Brock releases the ball to when Aiyuk regains full speed.

This is nowhere near Jimmy G impersonation. That's good coverage by KC and miscommunication on the route. Purdy threw a great pass to Deebo a few plays later after avoiding Chris Jones that should've been a TD if Deebo could keep McDuffie off his hip.

And your own post claims he's got a step when the ball is in the AIR. Which means Purdy already made the throw. Go and look at it before he throws and that's what you need to react to. We got a FG and the lead on that drive, after Deebo couldn't shake McDuffie for a would be TD. People would be absolutely fuming if Purdy threw the ball closer and it got picked costing us points. That was a smart play on a first down inside the opponents 35 yard line.

Originally posted by genus49:
You're kidding right? The play is covered when Purdy throws it. Aiyuk gets lost tracking the ball and doesn't get to it. You could make a case it's a miss even if Aiyuk keeps running full speed but there is also a case to be made if they're on the same page and Aiyuk just keeps running he's there to make the catch, check how much time passes from the time Brock releases the ball to when Aiyuk regains full speed.

This is nowhere near Jimmy G impersonation. That's good coverage by KC and miscommunication on the route. Purdy threw a great pass to Deebo a few plays later after avoiding Chris Jones that should've been a TD if Deebo could keep McDuffie off his hip.

And your own post claims he's got a step when the ball is in the AIR. Which means Purdy already made the throw. Go and look at it before he throws and that's what you need to react to. We got a FG and the lead on that drive, after Deebo couldn't shake McDuffie for a would be TD. People would be absolutely fuming if Purdy threw the ball closer and it got picked costing us points. That was a smart play on a first down inside the opponents 35 yard line.

Looks like an overthrow and didn't really give BA a chance. We know Brock can make that type of throw…this one wasn't his best.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Looks like an overthrow and didn't really give BA a chance. We know Brock can make that type of throw…this one wasn't his best.

Aiyuk literally goes half speed for reasons unknown in the middle of the route. If aiyuk is confident in his route and goes all out, that's an easy td

If purdy throws it "on target" to where aiyuk ends his route it's a contested ball.

I trust that purdy knew where the route should be and put the ball where he thought aiyuk would be. Definitely wouldn't call it an overthrow

It was an overthrow, imo. The Kittle one was probably an overthrow too, but he kinda quit on his route, so we'll never know. Brock was definitely off on his deep balls in that game. But again, he was very good when it counted most, and protected the ball throughout. The blame should not be put on his shoulders. He played well against a great defense and led scoring drives in 5 out of the 8 that were in his control.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Exactly and I think he misses the point of his own argument here.

The eagles dominated the trenches and walked away with that SB even though Hurts was suspect early on and threw a bad pick. Point? It's a lot easier to absorb mistakes or off days from skill players when the lines are dominant. Hurts recovered and played very well the rest of the game. That helps when you have all day to throw. Now try to have a QB recover from bad line play, or a run defense recover from bad line play etc... not happening.

I would also counter your argument as I also think it's silly to directly compare each team. What works for one may not work for another erc, but the universal truth in football is building dominant trenches leads to success. I would argue the 49ers o-line is the main reason we have not won a SB under Kyle.

Meh the defense dominated. Eagles actually couldn't run the ball at all. Hurts played well because the defense kept giving him multiple opportunities.

Secondary has been as big if not a bigger reason.

Yes they did, but their o-line also provided excellent pass pro as the chiefs sold out to stop Barkley. The difference is against us they could sell out to stop the run and still generate pressure on obvious passing downs.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
You're missing the point completely. Every team is built differently. The best OL of DL doesn't always win all the games. Look at SF in 2023. They lived off their skilled players on both sides of the ball. Best team in the league #1 seed, multiple MVP finalists.

now if those players don't show up, who's fault is that? The middle of the field OL? Nah it's the guys who performed all yr that either didn't show up or couldn't make the plays at the end of the game.

I could argue we lost two super bowls because of s**t QB play in the second half of one and not being able to stop Mahomes when it mattered in the second one. KC's best players, the ones who won them games all year showed up when it mattered.

where the hell was kittle, Deebo, Bosa? Even CMC had a massive fumble. Those dudes gotta show up at those important points for this team to win. That's just how it goes.

What good are Kittle and Deebo when Purdy is constantly pressured? Do you blame Deebo for Burford not blocking the most clutch d-lineman this generation on the most clutch play?

Kyles scheme works in the regular season, but once we hit those championship games and face the top talent they have to play flawless in order to compensate for the o-line. The chiefs got demolished by the Bucs because of o line injuries. What did Andy do? He rebuilt the entire line and won another two. This year they had injuries again. I get it, it happens, but the 49ers do not value o-line at all.

While I expect the defense to become very very good as the season progresses if they stay healthy I would not be surprised if Purdy is just OK to whatever this year because his pass protection will most likely suck which makes no sense since we all agree he needs a better line to shine. Instead they rely on CMC to sneak through miniscule holes so good luck having him all season. Our LT is 37? LG is unknown. Center is garbage and old, RG is a gem, and RT is pedestrian at best and will give up at least 2 3rd downs a game. What are the odds they aside Puni improve and stay healthy?