Roundtable discussion over the State of the San Francisco 49ers

Originally posted by Rascal:
Baalke is way overrated. I would rather have the HC be in charge of personnel as well much like Pete Carroll (although I have to say not Tomsula in this case cos he is just an unqualified head coach). That way you will be able to work towards your goal in a seamless fashion. If it doesn't work out then you know who is at fault. This reduces politics and there will be no argument on who wanted to draft who.

Lol Baalke is not overrated.
There are only 4 NFL coaches who have that much power (Carroll being 1 of them)

As I explained before, the bolded is why Harbaugh was fired. I'm assuming he wanted to be one of those but you could obviously see how that might create conflict. Baalke has brought in talent and retained that talent as well. Year after year we have one of the best rosters in the NFL so why would we give that much power to a new HC?

Originally posted by Quest4six:

I truly believe the reason that our offense and defense took a step backward this year was because of the rifts forming between Harbs and most of the coaches/FO. I think we can even see it when we look into what plagued the offense this year, and it shows the toll lack of communication between coaches/FO can do. It looked like too many coaches were pulling too many strings in too many different directions. The results being a Qb that regressed, an offensive line that was top5 in the NFL a year prior getting dominated at the LOS by the Raiders and dropping to bottom 5 overall. A OC who not only looks like an idiot, but called plays like one as well. Talented draft picks becoming busts through their lack of development. Bad drafts. Too many different pieces on an offense that is supposed to be simple, yet we are horrible at looking organized before a play.

I agree that 2014 stunk of a lot of politics. It translated onto the field and off the field. However, a fish rots from the head down. It's very easy to get too many coaches pulling on different strings if your owner is working to undermine the chain of command. This is what this organization has done with every coach (good or bad) ever since the Yorks took over. All of the coaches are working their dream jobs and making high 6 to 7 figure salaries. When you have ownership coming in and start undermining the coaching staff, you will naturally see everyone scramble to protect their positions. Everyone wants to keep their high paying, high profile, job and survival instincts and the nastiness starts to kick in. It's human nature and something you see happen in every organization when you have s**tty leaders (ownership in this case).

If we look at the Super Bowl winners of the past decade, every single one of them has very level headed management and ownership with decades upon decades of people management experience and success building businesses. See Paul Allen, the Maras, Rooneys, Biscotti, Kraft, Green Bay Packers Inc, etc... The teams you see fail year after year also have one thing in common - lousy ownership that either doesn't care, meddles needlessly with the team, or starts s**t because they can. See Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, Al Davis. Taking your love for this team aside and the obvious biases that causes us as fans, would you or anyone put Jed York on the same level of management success as the likes of Robert Kraft (Kraft Foods) or Paul Allen (Microsoft)?

I'm sure Harbaugh is no saint and he's also at fault. But to lay responsibility for this entire mess at his feet is misguided. As Jed York puts it - "hold me accountable." and he's right. The buck always stops with the CEO and ownership.

Originally posted by rrx1:
I agree that 2014 stunk of a lot of politics. It translated onto the field and off the field. However, a fish rots from the head down. It's very easy to get too many coaches pulling on different strings if your owner is working to undermine the chain of command. This is what this organization has done with every coach (good or bad) ever since the Yorks took over. All of the coaches are working their dream jobs and making high 6 to 7 figure salaries. When you have ownership coming in and start undermining the coaching staff, you will naturally see everyone scramble to protect their positions. Everyone wants to keep their high paying, high profile, job and survival instincts and the nastiness starts to kick in. It's human nature and something you see happen in every organization when you have s**tty leaders (ownership in this case).

If we look at the Super Bowl winners of the past decade, every single one of them has very level headed management and ownership with decades upon decades of people management experience and success building businesses. See Paul Allen, the Maras, Rooneys, Biscotti, Kraft, Green Bay Packers Inc, etc... The teams you see fail year after year also have one thing in common - lousy ownership that either doesn't care, meddles needlessly with the team, or starts s**t because they can. See Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, Al Davis. Taking your love for this team aside and the obvious biases that causes us as fans, would you or anyone put Jed York on the same level of management success as the likes of Robert Kraft (Kraft Foods) or Paul Allen (Microsoft)?

I'm sure Harbaugh is no saint and he's also at fault. But to lay responsibility for this entire mess at his feet is misguided. As Jed York puts it - "hold me accountable." and he's right. The buck always stops with the CEO and ownership.

This! Jed York and the York family have produced 3 winning seasons in the past 16 years. Without Harbaugh it would have been a big goose egg. We have the worst ownership next to the Bengals and Raiders. Heck even Shad Khan is trying is hardest down in Jacksonville

When I first heard the news, I was shocked, unlike other fans though, I didn't throw a tantrum and decided to play a wait and see attitude as it doesn't any good to have a cow when you can't do anything and no sense stressing.

As news unfolded you heard the stories. I understand why some of these happen but still made it hard to swallow. I lot of people are blaming York and Baalke, but as I look at it, there is plenty of of blame to go around on both sides, including those that you may not think about as being at fault for the current situation.

Much has been reported about the colliding of the front office and HC Harbaugh. I think the front office just got tired from fighting with coaches that are hardnosed and no flexibility and it didn't start with just Harbaugh but Singletary. Remember the draft of Taylor Mays and the big fight about it. Mike was adamant (just as adamant about Patrick Willis not being a good first round pick). Then it was reported about the front office wanting JH to make a change in OC, but Jim decided to remain loyal. We found it wasn't because of running so much (the front office liked that it seems), but more because of the bad decisions at critical times and that we passed more this year than in previous years when we shouldn't have because there was no cohesion due to all the injuries to the OL. We probably should have kept things simple Like defense. So I don't blame the front offense for wanting a change in the offense, however, after picking JT as head coach, they let all the Defensive staff go-seriously Jim? Okay-so Fangio may not want to check his ego and can be abrasive (more so than Harbaugh according to the writers), but letting go a guy who not only dealt with all the injuries but still performed at a top five level (which would have been even hire had the offense been better.), bad move #1. Bad move number 2 is letting the LB and DB coaches go. Donatell did such an incredible job low round picks not to mention rehabbed the others into pro bowl like secondary. The LB coach constantly plugged in LB and they didn't miss a beat either. So if you let Fangio go okay-but there was talk about wanting teachers, those guys could teach. Keep the D intact and overhaul the O staff, now they have to do both and who knows how this will turn out.

The offense was a different story though- Vernon sucked this year, I blame Harbaugh for putting Mangini as the TE coach. Our WR coach sucked to and that is JH fault also for not getting a better one also. Besides, who knows, JH could be like Rex Ryan a successful three year run then back down to earth.

Technically I would get a HC that was a wiz on one side and then get a great coordinator that was great on the other. That way you will have stability on one side at least.

I believe that a HC can succeed without being a coordinator before, but he has to make sure to get good coordinator, but if they leave then you lose stability. So while I like the idea of getting Shanahan as OC, he could turn into Norv Turner and be gone.

I also heard the rumblings about Kaep from those who supported JH, but Kaep was JH hand pick choice. The flip side, they are bringing back the QB coach, who also hasn't done a good job with Kaep, and you are not bringing back the other people on the D side?

All I can do is wait now to see who will round out the staff and hope. Hope that the change was to stem a jets like crash. I don't question Baalke's eye for player talent and although he got JH, I question his foresight in picking a head coach. Hope that I am wrong though.

Originally posted by ayleswbj11:
This! Jed York and the York family have produced 3 winning seasons in the past 16 years. Without Harbaugh it would have been a big goose egg. We have the worst ownership next to the Bengals and Raiders. Heck even Shad Khan is trying is hardest down in Jacksonville

Haha-I am sure every team that is less than 8-8 feels that way about their team (worse ownership). Browns, Redskins, Raiders, Jags, Detroit, (even the cards until recently), rams.

Originally posted by Quest4six:
Lol Baalke is not overrated.
There are only 4 NFL coaches who have that much power (Carroll being 1 of them)

As I explained before, the bolded is why Harbaugh was fired. I'm assuming he wanted to be one of those but you could obviously see how that might create conflict. Baalke has brought in talent and retained that talent as well. Year after year we have one of the best rosters in the NFL so why would we give that much power to a new HC?

Not even Carrol has the absolute power, they have a GM that does call the shots, but works well with Carrol.

This is weird. I honestly don't have a problem with the way Jed runs the team as far as letting the GM and the HC handle the football decisions. He has done an admirable job in restoring a winning attitude/culture back to the 49ers (and Harbaugh deserves credit for that too). He got the new stadium, which will give the team the financial resources to put a competitive team on the field. Yet he's been compared to Dan Snyder as far as being an ahole, Jerry Jones in terms of his ego. Where am I missing the mark?

Is it the tweets? (I don't think that's a big deal-Jim Irsay makes dumb tweets all the time and he's seen as a great owner)

The Super Bowl or bust mantra? (Every successful organization has that goal in mind-He didn't part ways with Harbaugh because he didn't win the SB, like Florio has been saying for the past month, that's ridiculous; John Elway's motto is the same)

How much control does he really have? (As far as I know Baalke conducted the last 2 coaching searches)

My only problem is the York family's reluctance for change. Change can be good. Their MO is to promote from within for continuity sake. Watch in 3 years if the 49ers blow this up if it blows up in their face, they'll do something stupid like make Paraag the GM.