Saying Good-Bye to a Legend- The Niners should trade Patrick Willis

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
Bowman might never be the same again. FYI

I'm hoping that's not the case but you can't plan on him being the same Bowman he was before, at least not in his first season back. At best, Borland is outstanding depth, at worst he's a very good starter alongside Willis while Bowman builds back up. I don't see any of those three being expendable at this point in time. In anycase the 49ers have Borland on a cheap rookie contract until 2018, by then its possible that they might very well be moving on from either Willis or Bowman.

This one intrigues me.

What if Willis is traded for a true NT or a probowl WR? Hmmm....

Originally posted by DarthNiner:
This one intrigues me.

What if Willis is traded for a true NT or a probowl WR? Hmmm....

What if Bowman can't come back from his injury? What if the defense starts to look like the offense without any real veteran leadership?

For a first rounder maybe. But there is still a major question mark concerning whether Bowman will be the same

- We don't know about Bow's knee

- the market for Willis will not be large. Only contenders will trade for him which eliminates HOU.

- the most he'd garner is a mid round pick for the same reasons the OP mentioned: 30, big contract, lots of mileage, just got IR'ed.

- he means more to the 49er fan base and franchise than his box score and on the field production indicates.

It's not worth it to trade him unless the OP can show who would be lost via cap casualties if he wasn't traded. What are we looking at here in terms of which players would be able to be kept if he is traded? I'm not seeing the pros to trading away a heart and soul player when there are three of them that are definitely soon to be gone: Gore, Justin, Boldin.

Originally posted by thl408:
- We don't know about Bow's knee

- the market for Willis will not be large. Only contenders will trade for him which eliminates HOU.

- the most he'd garner is a mid round pick for the same reasons the OP mentioned: 30, big contract, lots of mileage, just got IR'ed.

- he means more to the 49er fan base and franchise than his box score and on the field production indicates.

It's not worth it to trade him unless the OP can show who would be lost via cap casualties if he wasn't traded. What are we looking at here in terms of which players would be able to be kept if he is traded? I'm not seeing the pros to trading away a heart and soul player when there are three of them that are definitely soon to be gone: Gore, Justin, Boldin.

All good points! I could see an up and coming team with a young defense wanting a leader but that would still not bring a high pick. Willis is an impact player and any returned picks would not replace that impact. Would like to see MD suggest possible scenarios for a trade though.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Watching former 49ers greats, like Joe Montana, wearing a Chiefs' jersey, or Jerry Rice wearing a Raiders' jersey, is like being part of some strange alternate universe. It just didn't seem real, or right, or __________ (your choice of words). And, yet, the Niners are on the verge of turning the page on a roster full of terrific players that deserve a spot, or at least an argument for a spot, on our best-ever roster. The one I want to focus on in this thread is Patrick Willis,

Willis will turn 30 this next month, and let's be honest, his best football is behind him. In the first five years of his career, there was no one better (better than Ray, better than Urlacher/Briggs, better than anyone). He should make the Hall of Fame someday as the dominant defender of the middle, a three-down stud. But, as we know, Father Time has a way of slowing down the best and brightest, and Willis doesn't have the same impact as he once did in his earlier days, He is not as dominant, not the best in the league anymore. He has come back to simply being very good, which is better than most rosters have across the NFL.

The problem the Niners have with Willis is that: 1) Chris Borland is also very good; 2) Navarro Bowman is also very good; 3) Willis makes about twice as much money as Bowman (who is four years younger), and a LOT more than Borland. Unless the Niners can find a new defensive scheme with 3 interior linebackers, this team has a problem: Which dude do you bench? Even though Willis has been so good to us, it doesn't make much salary cap sense to commit nearly $9 million this year to Willis, when you have a player at the same level, maybe slightly higher or lower depending on your perspective, in Borland, making a fraction of that amount.

As much as it would kill me to see Willis play for another team, the reality of the current salary cap era, the large cap number the team possesses going into 2015, and the list of free agents to either re-sign, or sign from other clubs, and the stellar play of Bowman (in 2012 and 2013) and Borland, simply makes Willis a Niners' legend that is...I hate to say the word...expendable. He, along with Frank Gore, have been the heart and soul of this team for so long, but this will be a new Niners' team in 2015, and the team has too many other needs entering the season to carry a huge cap number in a position of strength.

Trust me: there will be suitors in trades. Watching the Texans this year, they have a gigantic hole at ILB. There are numerous other teams who have the cap space (he would surely have to re-negotiate the contract down) and would love to have Willis on their roster.

All of this argument is based on the idea that Bowman and Borland will come back healthy entering 2015.

Patrick Willis 2015 cap hit 8.268 mil Navorro Bowman 2015 cap hit 8.4 mil...?

Originally posted by thl408:

- We don't know about Bow's knee

- the market for Willis will not be large. Only contenders will trade for him which eliminates HOU.

- the most he'd garner is a mid round pick for the same reasons the OP mentioned: 30, big contract, lots of mileage, just got IR'ed.

- he means more to the 49er fan base and franchise than his box score and on the field production indicates.

It's not worth it to trade him unless the OP can show who would be lost via cap casualties if he wasn't traded. What are we looking at here in terms of which players would be able to be kept if he is traded? I'm not seeing the pros to trading away a heart and soul player when there are three of them that are definitely soon to be gone: Gore, Justin, Boldin.

Yeah I agree with this

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
All good points! I could see an up and coming team with a young defense wanting a leader but that would still not bring a high pick. Willis is an impact player and any returned picks would not replace that impact. Would like to see MD suggest possible scenarios for a trade though.

Based on his age, there is no way that I could see the 49ers getting fair value back for Willis. I could see another team trading a 3rd round pick perhaps, thats not even close to replacing his value as a performer and leader on this defense.

Originally posted by sf1974:
Patrick Willis 2015 cap hit 8.268 mil Navorro Bowman 2015 cap hit 8.4 mil...?

3 years younger.

short sighted...Borland isn't half of what Patrick is...never will be IMO

theres plenty of other guys killin the cap space that need to be moved..and hell its not even about bringing in other free agents to spend that cap space on or resigning guys...

at this point we just need to develop and maintain our own guys...Willis should play until he cant...Borland can wait

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Based on his age, there is no way that I could see the 49ers getting fair value back for Willis. I could see another team trading a 3rd round pick perhaps, thats not even close to replacing his value as a performer and leader on this defense.

True! Borland was a third rounder but with a shoulder concern...and he's surprised the heck out of everyone...AND he can't be compared to Willis favorably.

Originally posted by MannySoopa49ersnMD:
short sighted...Borland isn't half of what Patrick is...never will be IMO

theres plenty of other guys killin the cap space that need to be moved..and hell its not even about bringing in other free agents to spend that cap space on or resigning guys...

at this point we just need to develop and maintain our own guys...Willis should play until he cant...Borland can wait

If Crabtree and Iupati leave it should free up some money, if they are replaced by young guys.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:
This one intrigues me.

What if Willis is traded for a true NT or a probowl WR? Hmmm....

What if Bowman can't come back from his injury? What if the defense starts to look like the offense without any real veteran leadership?

The defense is currently ranked #3 despite losing Bowman, not having a NT for the entire year, lost Aldon and Willis partially for the year, and had multiple CBs go on IR. I think as long as Cowboy and Bethea are on the team we are in good position for veteran leadership.

Plus, Willis' salary and injury history makes him a candidate to be moved. I don't want it to happen, but it might.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by MannySoopa49ersnMD:
short sighted...Borland isn't half of what Patrick is...never will be IMO

theres plenty of other guys killin the cap space that need to be moved..and hell its not even about bringing in other free agents to spend that cap space on or resigning guys...

at this point we just need to develop and maintain our own guys...Willis should play until he cant...Borland can wait

If Crabtree and Iupati leave it should free up some money, if they are replaced by young guys.

Crabtree and Iupati's replacements are on the team already with SJ and Brandon Thomas. Baalke should concentrate on resigning Aldon long term.