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Week 14 - 2014: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

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Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Great post again, marvin.

Just one tiny disagreement. I don't think kap will be here next yr. Can you really imagine kap here again, showing us over and over how he can't do....(you name it and fill in the blanks). The immaturity which was minimal at first is obnoxious. The "looking good" is obnoxious. The looking at guys passrushiing him instead of looking down the field(exactly like that little shrimp from across the bay did)...is awful. You can't teach that. You either have guts or you don't. Kap didn't score well in this category. The inaccuracy with short passes, medium range and my favorite...heaving the ball downfield as far as it will go...that is worse than awful. Please tell me we won't see this kid on the field next yr wearing our uniform. Get a real Qb. Someone not as talented and teach him up. Just don't let the teacher be Harbaugh...jim, that is. And please, don't let the name roman ever be heard again when talking about the niners. In sum JImbo+ roman+ kap.....across the bay, or anywhere would be just fine with me. We bombed on all 3 and I just don't see what you do in remaking of kap into a pocket passer. FRankly altho he scored well on his wonderlic... I wonder.


TOTALLY disagree.

No way is he gone. Not a chance in hell.
Originally posted by BobS:
That isn't going to fly as poor as Kaepernick is playing, Manning or Brady get away with it because they are A grade quarterbacks. Players aren't going to accept a butt chewing from someone who isn't leading by example. They would probably just laugh in his face or punch him.
Yep, exactly. Colin Sackorpick ain't playing well enough to get in anyone's face. They'll laugh at him. He needs to lead by example first. Speaking of laughing, was at a Venice Beach bar getting hammered while watching our 9ers were getting embarrassed yesterday.. The Seahawks fans were laughing at us.
  • DeUh
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Originally posted by Marvin49:
TOTALLY disagree.

No way is he gone. Not a chance in hell.


This.
I'm not buying at all that Harbaugh's entire offense is based off of all pre-snap. There's no way.

This all stinks of the Niners being the Niners and kicking a great head coach they couldn't get along with to the curb, and will get stuck with a high-priced bad QB, a new hire head coach that won't fit the bill, and a roster loaded with holes after the likes of J. Smith, Gore, Crab, Iupati, etc. are gone. Not saying they're all world-beaters (lord knows crabtree is a piece of s**t), but it's still roster turnover. Who knows what Bowman will be upon return, etc etc.

Ownership was always the problem before Harbaugh arrived; utter incompetence and clueless. Harbaugh's coaching acumen masked all that and thrived despite it. They rode him to a new, crappy, soul-less tech stadium in the middle of nowhere in Santa Clara, which the organization thinks is cool but really just sucks (I've been there 3 times, it's a pain to get to and lacks any real identity or soul...just like this team). Now they'll unprecedentedly part ways with a proven winning coach after one down season because they wouldn't give him his due pay and continued to butt heads with him.

If only the Niners got that one ring out of those 3 years...the window is so small. And with how all this is playing out, and what the product looks like on the field, sadly looks just like what we watched from 2002-2010. That's the biggest travesty of all of this...knowing we're stuck with clueless ownership that will continue to dig this franchise into a grave.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
TOTALLY disagree.

No way is he gone. Not a chance in hell.

How many games into the 2015 season does he get benched?
Everything begins and ends with coaching. The buck stopes there.

Kap is playing poorly. What QB plays well under siege, with a poor running game, against a defense that too often knows what's coming? Add to that he is not being developed properly and what do you expect. He has had great games in his career. He has thrown for over 300 yards before. He played well last year even though we had only 1 receiever (Boldin) for over half the year. How is that even possible if he is a poor player.

The O-line looks bad. Too many injuries. Add to that poor play calling. Too many obvious passing situations when defenses can tee off. We used to play with the lead and run the ball and use play action. Now we play from behind and find ourselves in 2nd or 3rd and long way too often. It's also hard to block when the defense knows what you are going to do.

Vernon Davis: nobody knows what is up with him. Is he still injured? He is not the same player. I hope he can come back to form.

Coaching, play calling is terrible. Opposing defenses have figured us out and we have not adjusted. We are far worse in the 2nd half after the other teams make succesful halftime adjustments and we don't. Our play calling is terrible. We had a bye week and a Thursday nite game leaving us extra time to gameplan for the next opponent. That is a big advantage. In both follow up games we sucked on offense including the loss to the 1 win Raiders.

We started the game vs the Raiders with an intermediate pass that wasn't open. Kap escapes left and makes a poor decision to loft up a duck that gets picked. Why? Why didn't we hand the ball off and see if we could establish the run? If we pass why not an easy completion to miller to help our QB get in to the flow and in to a rythymn? Just doesn't make sense.


You just made my day!!!! ahahah
Sorry, the Scheme story had me for a little..and it could make some sense. But in the end the quarterbacks aren't puppets with strings leading to the hands of their coaches. Kaep mistakes are his. That first INT and that last INT were HIS.

Yes I can agree the system was simplified for him (or maybe for all his qb's in general) but nobody is teaching him to overthrow his receivers by 10 YARDS, or to completely ignore his scape route (dump passes to rb's) or to not throw a bullet from 5 yards away, or to not see his 3 and 4th option.

I am this FIRST person to say that coaches are by far the most important position in sports, especially football. But its all on Kaep here. It plain, clear, and simple.
Originally posted by MC9BEAT:
Everything begins and ends with coaching. The buck stopes there.

Kap is playing poorly. What QB plays well under siege, with a poor running game, against a defense that too often knows what's coming? Add to that he is not being developed properly and what do you expect. He has had great games in his career. He has thrown for over 300 yards before. He played well last year even though we had only 1 receiever (Boldin) for over half the year. How is that even possible if he is a poor player.

The O-line looks bad. Too many injuries. Add to that poor play calling. Too many obvious passing situations when defenses can tee off. We used to play with the lead and run the ball and use play action. Now we play from behind and find ourselves in 2nd or 3rd and long way too often. It's also hard to block when the defense knows what you are going to do.

Vernon Davis: nobody knows what is up with him. Is he still injured? He is not the same player. I hope he can come back to form.

Coaching, play calling is terrible. Opposing defenses have figured us out and we have not adjusted. We are far worse in the 2nd half after the other teams make succesful halftime adjustments and we don't. Our play calling is terrible. We had a bye week and a Thursday nite game leaving us extra time to gameplan for the next opponent. That is a big advantage. In both follow up games we sucked on offense including the loss to the 1 win Raiders.

We started the game vs the Raiders with an intermediate pass that wasn't open. Kap escapes left and makes a poor decision to loft up a duck that gets picked. Why? Why didn't we hand the ball off and see if we could establish the run? If we pass why not an easy completion to miller to help our QB get in to the flow and in to a rythymn? Just doesn't make sense.

Davis better be gone. I don't think he wants to play football anymore. Seeya!!

I can't wait for 2015. New coach, newoffensive philosophy. Hopefully we can keep Fangio.
Originally posted by SFTifoso:
Davis better be gone. I don't think he wants to play football anymore. Seeya!!

I can't wait for 2015. New coach, newoffensive philosophy. Hopefully we can keep Fangio.

Same crappy Quarterback handling each snap?
[ Edited by MELGIBSON01 on Dec 9, 2014 at 12:36 AM ]
  • Jd925
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Originally posted by Marvin49:
...
2) Scheme: So that last line about Kap takes me into what I think a big part of the problem is, and why there needs to be a change.

Harbaugh had a reputation coming in that he could mold QBs. He's done it with Josh Johnson and Andrew Luck. While here he did the same with Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick. It all started tho with a BYU transfer to USD named Todd Mortensen. Why do I bring this up? Something I read WAY back when Harbaugh was hired has stuck with me these last 4 years and it was just screaming loudly in my skull yesterday.

Here is one of the articles written back then.

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/harbaughs-first-quarterback-says-the-offense-is-the-key/

Harbaughs offense is QB friendly (as in, makes playing QB easier). That's one of the big reasons every QB who has run it has had success. It is based on the idea that you can make playing QB easier by making the decisions more clear cut. More defined throws. How do you do that? Through numerous personal packages, lots of motion, and waiting until the last second to snap the ball to force defenses to declare. This allows the QB to know where he's going to go with the ball BEFORE THE SNAP. To further clarify the read and open space, play action off a strong, inventive run game that keep people guessing forces defenses to keep extra men in the box and play on their heels

One of the criticisms of Kap is that he sticks to his presnap read. Well, there is a reason. That's what he's been trained to do. The throw to Crab on 3rd and long that got converted yesterday was a good example. Crab was the only target in the pattern and everyone else was just there to block. The problem here though is multiple.

First, defenses now know all this. They know that they can't declare their intentions until AFTER the snap or JUST before. You will at times see safeties bail out LATE on the play clock. This is why. This is also why you see Kap married to his presnap read and nearly fall into a trap when the coverage changes POST snap.

Second, since there are no hot routes and little post snap decision making, the routes themselves while SOMETIMES creative, are usually really basic.

Third, when the run game struggles and you use less play action (ALOT less this year) it means there is less space because they don't respect the run as much as they did. Those teams have seen all the runs now and are no longer playing on their heels. They are playing downhill. Bruce Miller alluded to this last week when he said that defenses aren't responding to plays the way they expect them to...the run AND pass schemes have been figured out and Harbaugh/Roman aren't able to counter.

I want to be very clear...I'm not trying to scapegoat Kap here. He's played HORRIBLY over the last 2 weeks. What I'm saying though is that the problem goes FAR deeper than Kap and IMO won't get better unless a change is made in the offensive system.

Does this mean if you run a more conventional offense that Kap will immediately start playing like an all-pro? Not by a longshot. What it does mean though is that we don't know what he can do till he is asked to play more conventionally....

Marvin,
Great insight. Yeah a lot of us have been discussing the offensive schemes and your comments give more confirmation. It seems that most reads are pre-snap and there are very few progressions if any at all. Was it NCommand that spoke about automatic reads or ARs last year. It was funny when Dilfer bashed Kap last year about progressions and Kap snapped back "He should know what my progressions are before making those comments"... funny thing is that statement could be interpreted a few ways, but it probably meant there ARE NO progressions. Lol.

There was an article written about Harbaugh & Alex Smith which probably remains accurate today: http://grantland.com/features/quarterbacking-made-simple/
49ers use no sight adjustments. It's pretty evident. The terrible thing is that there really aren't good hot routes built into the route design most of the time and that's why Kap gets sacked.

This is one of the most telling quotes from Alex Smith about the Superbowl ending:

Smith said the offensive line and running backs are still frustrated they weren't given the chance to win the game. And he's still perplexed by the play-calling.
"On the last play I was on the sideline screaming for a timeout because we had called a play that had no pressure answer," Smith said. "Colin (Kaepernick) did the best he could with the signal and the throw. I'm sure if the coaches had it to do over again they'd call something with a better pressure answer."
http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/Kansas-City-puts-smile-on-Alex-Smith-s-face-4891283.php

This is our coaching staff... and it hasn't changed much since the Superbowl ... it may have gotten worse. And I have to keep reminding people that Roman's only experience as offensive coordinator was at Holy Trinity High School in 2008. That's got to make you question Roman's abilities much less Harbaugh's judgement.

But ultimately the offensive design and simplifying of the QB position is all on Harbaugh.. .. The crazy theory I have is that Harbaugh never got over Ditka's ripping him apart for an audible Harbaugh made that resulted in a pick six against Minnesota many years ago... that was the most traumatic experience of Harbaugh's career..... Ditka was fired that year and blames Harbaugh and that game for his demise.. Ditka said he'd never let a QB think he's smarter than the coach.... the unfortunate thing is Harbaugh may have taken that traumatic experience as a lesson to incorporate Ditka's controlling philosophy in his future offenses... never really giving any leeway or discretion to the QB so that they won't make the same mistake Harbaugh made years ago....
Kap has way underperformed the last few games, true. I personally think he's hurt or playing through a right arm muscle bruise or something. The last pick to woodson was just like his picks to sherman. Ducks that were almost tailor made for the pick. Incredible. You start to think conspiracy theory after watching that.

ANyway, things are so foobar that something has really gone off the rails. The staff can't handle what's happening. Kap is just a reflection of that. And, I'm sorry to say I don't see more out of him yet. I think that's what people are talking about with the leadership thing. He's just an errand boy for Roman/Harbs. He's not looking at them in the face and saying "You seriously want me to throw a 20 yard pass on 2nd and 7?"

He needs to do stuff like that to play with the big boys.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Boone has to tap the center to signal him to snap the ball. Its a part of the silent count mechanic. All Kap is doing is telling him they need to get the ball off faster.

Nothing to see here.

I hate that new tap thing this year, might as well be college where the qb taps the ground. Shows them when it's coming. Plus we need to change the snap count more often. Could be just me but most times I see Boone stand up look around and then tap Martin it seems to take too long.
Originally posted by DeUh:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
TOTALLY disagree.

No way is he gone. Not a chance in hell.


This.

TOTALLY this. Kap is our starting QB for the foreseeable future.
Originally posted by tondiman:
Sorry, the Scheme story had me for a little..and it could make some sense. But in the end the quarterbacks aren't puppets with strings leading to the hands of their coaches. Kaep mistakes are his. That first INT and that last INT were HIS.

Yes I can agree the system was simplified for him (or maybe for all his qb's in general) but nobody is teaching him to overthrow his receivers by 10 YARDS, or to completely ignore his scape route (dump passes to rb's) or to not throw a bullet from 5 yards away, or to not see his 3 and 4th option.

I am this FIRST person to say that coaches are by far the most important position in sports, especially football. But its all on Kaep here. It plain, clear, and simple.

The same scheme that had SF throwing the ball 30+ times against the 7th ranked pass D instead of running the ball with a line built to run against one of the worst run defenses in the league...great game planing for sure!!

You can blame Kap (which he has played poorly), but why are they throwing out all of this 3 & 4 WR sets when the line has been strait awful in pass protection? Teams have been calling out their plays based on personal on the field for the past couple seasons...The only time SF's offense was worth anything was 2012 under Kap (they were ranked 11th) WHY change things? He isn't a pocket passer that is gonna carve up a teams secondary, neither is Wilson but they run plays to his strengths. All this junk about Jim being a QB whisper is crap, when Alex was the QB in 2011 they were ranked 26th in total offense and 29th in passing.

Good HC/OC game plan to a teams strengths and make adjustments, I have seen ZERO adjustments this year, and judging by how little they have scored in the 2nd half they don't even make in-game adjustments....
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