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KC Chiefs coaches film analysis

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Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by crake49:
Looks to me like the difference between a 9 year veteran who has thrown hundreds of swing passes in games and a 2 year player who has thrown a handful of swing passes in games. Nice analysis - you've got to hope the coaches are also drilling this into Kaepernick's head.

True, but, CK isn't a 2 year guy, he's in his 4th year in the league. Russel Wilson's in his 3rd and he holds the LB's with his eyes on that play.....Also, my point was also that you can have 2 coaches call the same thing and it comes down to execution. I'm sure we were also clueing to the swing pass when KC motioned their WR into the backfield - every team will. It's how the QB acts after the snap that makes the play work or not.

Agreed. Where is our QB whisperer? This should be automatic by now!
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Well done (excellent point!) but we're missing two key things that make KC's play design work with personnel and ours, not: 1) They have two backs in the backfield and the underneath RB runs to the strong side WITH Alex at the snap getting the defense flowing that way while the AR runs to the weak side and 2) We use only Ellington here in the backfield which should be an instant key-in for the defense. Charles is also the DECOY in this design and that is who the defense would naturally, key in on while they hit the receiver on the back end.

And like you noted, couple these two things WITH CK basically, moving the entire defense with his head/eyes TO where we are trying to create a mismatch and I'm surprised we even gained a yard! Poorer design, isolated personnel and QB-fail.

I can see where you have a problem with the design, but, I have seen several teams run this play out of the same formation we did and have success. With KC, Charles' movement only affects P Willis, not Wilhoite on the play side. With ours, CK's head movement moves the LB on the play side whereas AS holds the LB on the play side.

To say it's all around bad play design you'd have to call Mike McCarthy and Bevell up in Seattle as well. They both run this play out of the shotgun with the Receiver next to the QB as well. Cobb in GB and Harvin in Seattle. To me, the biggest factor is CK's eyes as you see the LB watching CK more than anything.

The little things do count but I think in this case it has more to do with predictability.
Every single time ellington is in the game we run the same exact play to the same exact side. they probably knew exactly how the play was going to work out before we even began to run it.

ellington in he's going to the short side of the field and get the ball. that's a true as the jumbo package runs we trot out there. i agree ck has to look people off as well just don't know what it would have done in this case with a team having film on keys on certain players and what we want to do with them

I wasn't even going to touch on this one.
  • thl408
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So let's try a swing screen to the RB.

Cue the music:

3Q: 1st & 10
This play incorporates bad design with bad blocking. Miller and JMart will lead the convoy for Gore to receive a quick swing pass to the right edge of the formation. Blue is assigned to Boldin. Orange (backside LB) is the other defender to keep an eye on on this play.


Back to jonnydel's point of Kap not looking away before eventually throwing to where he knows he will be throwing. Vance gets into his crossing to draw defenders away from where the play is going. Kap does the same thing here and doesn't allow a look off to help earn some space. He takes the snap and looks to where he will be throwing. He could have used Vance as the target to look off with.


Vance's crossing route does very little to influence defenders away from the play. Boldin's Go route does very little to influence defenders away from the direction of the play. The pass is thrown and blue sees it. He's not fooled by Boldin's vertical route as an attempt to draw the defender. Orange isn't fooled by Vance's crosser.


JMart allows his block to slide off of him. Two unblocked defenders. Gore has no chance. 1 yard gain.




LOL screen pass...
Not digging the formation which this play is ran from. Too many players on the playside. Boldin and Vance can't block because they'll risk offensive PI, so they try to run off (clear out) their defenders. Why use JMart to throw the block? Why not Staley, your best OT? Just not feeling this play design one bit.
[ Edited by thl408 on Oct 7, 2014 at 4:54 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. Where is our QB whisperer? This should be automatic by now!

It could be something he's trying to break, but again, compared to Alex Smith or Russell Wilson, how many swing pass plays has Kaepernick run from the pocket in a game situation? I'm going to guess that both of them have run the play hundreds of times and he's run the play less than 30 times. It's interesting and it's something I'm going to be watching for - at some point this season, we're going to see him looking up the field and abruptly lob one out for a swing pass - turning point!
Say what you want about Roman, the guy really knows how to design a run game.
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. Where is our QB whisperer? This should be automatic by now!

It could be something he's trying to break, but again, compared to Alex Smith or Russell Wilson, how many swing pass plays has Kaepernick run from the pocket in a game situation? I'm going to guess that both of them have run the play hundreds of times and he's run the play less than 30 times. It's interesting and it's something I'm going to be watching for - at some point this season, we're going to see him looking up the field and abruptly lob one out for a swing pass - turning point!

Can't wait! While I'm literally laughing my ass off listening to full-version of the Bennie Hill theme music above (thl is on fire today!), I can't help but smile for the other fact that we're TRYING to run some swing passes. Seriously! Obviously, I think there are a few things we can do to help make them more successful but damnit, we're trying and that's a big step! Ironically, we probably don't even NEED to run a designed swing pass...just run our 4 go-routes, Gore chip blocks (delay) and flares out...dude is wide open every single time since I can remember!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. Where is our QB whisperer? This should be automatic by now!

It could be something he's trying to break, but again, compared to Alex Smith or Russell Wilson, how many swing pass plays has Kaepernick run from the pocket in a game situation? I'm going to guess that both of them have run the play hundreds of times and he's run the play less than 30 times. It's interesting and it's something I'm going to be watching for - at some point this season, we're going to see him looking up the field and abruptly lob one out for a swing pass - turning point!

Can't wait! While I'm literally laughing my ass off listening to full-version of the Bennie Hill theme music above (thl is on fire today!), I can't help but smile for the other fact that we're TRYING to run some swing passes. Seriously! Obviously, I think there are a few things we can do to help make them more successful but damnit, we're trying and that's a big step! Ironically, we probably don't even NEED to run a designed swing pass...just run our 4 go-routes, Gore chip blocks (delay) and flares out...dude is wide open every single time since I can remember!
Correct. Watching that last year and screaming hit Gore....
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by crake49:
Looks to me like the difference between a 9 year veteran who has thrown hundreds of swing passes in games and a 2 year player who has thrown a handful of swing passes in games. Nice analysis - you've got to hope the coaches are also drilling this into Kaepernick's head.

True, but, CK isn't a 2 year guy, he's in his 4th year in the league. Russel Wilson's in his 3rd and he holds the LB's with his eyes on that play.....Also, my point was also that you can have 2 coaches call the same thing and it comes down to execution. I'm sure we were also clueing to the swing pass when KC motioned their WR into the backfield - every team will. It's how the QB acts after the snap that makes the play work or not.
One thing about the whole 2 year diatribe. Kap has played in a total of 40 games. So yes this is his 2nd year starting but he's played well over 2 years worth of games.
  • thl408
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This is the first nice pass by Kap of the day. First drive of the game. After a +9 yard run on 1st down (Hyde), the 49ers face 2nd & 1. Run up the middle?

2nd & 1
Same routes on both sides of the field with deep Outs by Crabs and Boldin.


After using play action to suck up the LBs, Kap hits the top of his dropback and looks towards Boldin working 1 on 1 versus Cooper. Kap sees that the LB covering Vance is playing up tight. There is no way for that LB to play the passing lane on Boldin's Out route.


The LB (orange) continues to play Vance tight. Kap has already started his windup and Boldin is just about to enter his break. Anticipation is a must on deep sideline Out routes.


+18 yards




Nice change up as the 49ers could have easily secured a new set of downs with a run, but instead go playaction for a chunk play.
[ Edited by thl408 on Oct 7, 2014 at 5:28 PM ]
Originally posted by T-9ers:
Say what you want about Roman, the guy really knows how to design a run game.

good...he's doing half of his job
Originally posted by thl408:
This is the first nice pass by Kap of the day. First drive of the game. After a +9 yard run on 1st down (Hyde), the 49ers face 2nd & 1. Run up the middle?

2nd & 1
Same routes on both sides of the field with deep Outs by Crabs and Boldin.


After using play action to suck up the LBs, Kap hits the top of his dropback and looks towards Boldin working 1 on 1 versus Cooper. Kap sees that the LB covering Vance is playing up tight. There is no way for that LB to play the passing lane on Boldin's Out route.


The LB (orange) continues to play Vance tight. Kap has already started his windup and Boldin is just about to enter his break. Anticipation is a must on deep sideline Out routes.


+18 yards




Nice change up as the 49ers could have easily secured a new set of downs with a run, but instead go playaction for a chunk play.

Nice rope on the deep out, that's the "big boy throw" opposite hash strike. Plays like this are tendancy breakers. I am so happy Boldin is a niner, I've have admired his game since he was switched from a QB to WR at FSU. I so baby wanted him in the 2003 draft to pair with and eventually replace TO.
[ Edited by Niners816 on Oct 7, 2014 at 5:40 PM ]
Originally posted by thl408:
So let's try a swing screen to the RB.

Cue the music:

3Q: 1st & 10
This play incorporates bad design with bad blocking. Miller and JMart will lead the convoy for Gore to receive a quick swing pass to the right edge of the formation. Blue is assigned to Boldin. Orange (backside LB) is the other defender to keep an eye on on this play.


Back to jonnydel's point of Kap not looking away before eventually throwing to where he knows he will be throwing. Vance gets into his crossing to draw defenders away from where the play is going. Kap does the same thing here and doesn't allow a look off to help earn some space. He takes the snap and looks to where he will be throwing. He could have used Vance as the target to look off with.


Vance's crossing route does very little to influence defenders away from the play. Boldin's Go route does very little to influence defenders away from the direction of the play. The pass is thrown and blue sees it. He's not fooled by Boldin's vertical route as an attempt to draw the defender. Orange isn't fooled by Vance's crosser.


JMart allows his block to slide off of him. Two unblocked defenders. Gore has no chance. 1 yard gain.




LOL screen pass...
Not digging the formation which this play is ran from. Too many players on the playside. Boldin and Vance can't block because they'll risk offensive PI, so they try to run off (clear out) their defenders. Why use JMart to throw the block? Why not Staley, your best OT? Just not feeling this play design one bit.

LMAO
Originally posted by thl408:
This is the first nice pass by Kap of the day. First drive of the game. After a +9 yard run on 1st down (Hyde), the 49ers face 2nd & 1. Run up the middle?

2nd & 1
Same routes on both sides of the field with deep Outs by Crabs and Boldin.


After using play action to suck up the LBs, Kap hits the top of his dropback and looks towards Boldin working 1 on 1 versus Cooper. Kap sees that the LB covering Vance is playing up tight. There is no way for that LB to play the passing lane on Boldin's Out route.


The LB (orange) continues to play Vance tight. Kap has already started his windup and Boldin is just about to enter his break. Anticipation is a must on deep sideline Out routes.


+18 yards




Nice change up as the 49ers could have easily secured a new set of downs with a run, but instead go playaction for a chunk play.
love the breakdown, this was one I flagged when i was watching as one of CK's really, really, nice throws. It's something that you sometimes lose an appreciation for, how hard that throw is and how few guys can make this throw. This is a LONG throw, that has to be on a line. These are the types of throws that remind me why he's our starting QB. Also why it's frustrating when he makes errors out of sloppy play.
Originally posted by thl408:
Man was that frustrating to watch. All those completions directly over the middle of the field. Good play design by KC along with some blown coverages led to quite a maddening opening to for the 49er defense as they gave up chunk plays and numerous 3rd down conversions. They tightened it up later in the game as they were able to get off the field on 3rd downs.

Hasn't this generally been SF's M.O. the last few years? They come out looking unprepared and you think it's going to be one of "those" games, then the defense settles down and plays lights out. Don't know if they are over-hyped at the beginning of games or if Fangio allows the opposition free rein to show their intentions for the game and then adjusts accordingly and shuts it down.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
love the breakdown, this was one I flagged when i was watching as one of CK's really, really, nice throws. It's something that you sometimes lose an appreciation for, how hard that throw is and how few guys can make this throw. This is a LONG throw, that has to be on a line. These are the types of throws that remind me why he's our starting QB. Also why it's frustrating when he makes errors out of sloppy play.

Do you think Alex could have executed that throw?
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