OUR PASSING GAME---ANOTHER LOOK

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Right. Our heavy use of 21 and 22 personnel, with virtually no speed on the field at WR, really hurt the offense. Defenses crowded the box, and we kept pounding regardless because our passing game is built on play-action. We had no choice. Our running and passing game was still remarkably effective in terms of per-down-averages given the circumstances.

I agree, and while G-ro always gets blamed for the passing game, I give credit to him for the run game.

Originally posted by Giedi:
It takes a QB with vision to run it, Kaep isn't that type of QB just right now. I'm confident he'll get there - but like Steve, he has to get away from trying to make plays himself and let his players make the plays.

Agree...which is why I said it was a good, but sad, idea to run Gore into a stacked line.

Giedi, with Vance, I think it is more that either roman/JH didn't target him enough. Sure, he had drops, but you gotta keep trying the guy until he plays himself off the team. Also it could be that kap's tendencies tend to favor #15 or #85. Like kap isn't even looking for vance. But IMO, this is a roman thing. He just flat out won't call vance's number. And if he doesn't , well vance doesn't look very good. ONce again roman gets my vote for favorite person to be cut. I've said before, I would love to see JH call his own game. I really wonder what that would look like. He IS and offensive coach. I suppose it is possible that he can't call a good O, but I really doubt it.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Agree...which is why I said it was a good, but sad, idea to run Gore into a stacked line.

Not much you can do with a developmental QB like Kaep who's still learning. You have to lean on the run game to save his Azz in certain circumstances. If gore wasn't there, I doubt we'd have any sort of a playoff offense. Having said that, Kaepernick is an unreal specimen of a QB. Very accurate arm, very strong arm, and as fast and elusive as the wind. If he gets this QB vision thing down, watch out, he'll dominate Midget Wilson.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Giedi, with Vance, I think it is more that either roman/JH didn't target him enough. Sure, he had drops, but you gotta keep trying the guy until he plays himself off the team. Also it could be that kap's tendencies tend to favor #15 or #85. Like kap isn't even looking for vance. But IMO, this is a roman thing. He just flat out won't call vance's number. And if he doesn't , well vance doesn't look very good. ONce again roman gets my vote for favorite person to be cut. I've said before, I would love to see JH call his own game. I really wonder what that would look like. He IS and offensive coach. I suppose it is possible that he can't call a good O, but I really doubt it.

Vance is going to be an interesting player to watch this year. It looks like Vance was tasked with learning how to block instead of being a pass receiver in his rookie year. At least that's what I get from the articles I read about him. That makes sense, because the Infante option routes are not easy to learn from the git go with all it's variations based on down, distance and defense. There are over 400 plays in the 49er playbook, and each play has many options depending on the situation. The players have to know each others routes as well as their own for the AR1 and AR2 stuff to work. Also the TE is the centerpiece of Harbaugh's offense - so he's going to be very careful not to destroy Vance's confidence by giving him too much.

So yeah, I agree in a sense that Vance was deliberately held back in the Harbaugh scheme, but I think they had good reason to.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Vance is going to be an interesting player to watch this year. It looks like Vance was tasked with learning how to block instead of being a pass receiver in his rookie year. At least that's what I get from the articles I read about him. That makes sense, because the Infante option routes are not easy to learn from the git go with all it's variations based on down, distance and defense. There are over 400 plays in the 49er playbook, and each play has many options depending on the situation. The players have to know each others routes as well as their own for the AR1 and AR2 stuff to work. Also the TE is the centerpiece of Harbaugh's offense - so he's going to be very careful not to destroy Vance's confidence by giving him too much.

So yeah, I agree in a sense that Vance was deliberately held back in the Harbaugh scheme, but I think they had good reason to.

TE is the centerpiece? Wha?

If Vance was a stinker at catching passes he shouldnt have been drafted. And he's not.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Not much you can do with a developmental QB like Kaep who's still learning. You have to lean on the run game to save his Azz in certain circumstances. If gore wasn't there, I doubt we'd have any sort of a playoff offense. Having said that, Kaepernick is an unreal specimen of a QB. Very accurate arm, very strong arm, and as fast and elusive as the wind. If he gets this QB vision thing down, watch out, he'll dominate Midget Wilson.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Vance is going to be an interesting player to watch this year. It looks like Vance was tasked with learning how to block instead of being a pass receiver in his rookie year. At least that's what I get from the articles I read about him. That makes sense, because the Infante option routes are not easy to learn from the git go with all it's variations based on down, distance and defense. There are over 400 plays in the 49er playbook, and each play has many options depending on the situation. The players have to know each others routes as well as their own for the AR1 and AR2 stuff to work. Also the TE is the centerpiece of Harbaugh's offense - so he's going to be very careful not to destroy Vance's confidence by giving him too much.

So yeah, I agree in a sense that Vance was deliberately held back in the Harbaugh scheme, but I think they had good reason to.

I agree with both of your posts here and the key is--development. Three years under Harbaugh, second full starting year for CK and Vance is just learning the game. On top of that the injuries to WRs, the Oline being dinged up and somewhat erratic, led to a limitation of offensive progress. So, while I not wild about the play calling it may have been impacted by these limitations.

It was only in his third year that Bill Walsh began winning and installing the offense took all of that time...and was always a work in progress. I hope this coaching staff can have the same end result...but they have already been to the playoffs...every year!

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Agree...which is why I said it was a good, but sad, idea to run Gore into a stacked line.

Not much you can do with a developmental QB like Kaep who's still learning.

When I think of a "developmental QB," Kaepernick is not the quarterback that comes to mind.

Harbaugh, Baalke, and York have all publically stressed the importance of signing Kaepernick to a long term extension.
When exactly do teams sign developmental quarterbacks to long term extensions.

I agree that Kaepernick is still learning the craft, still developing if you will, but calling him a developmental quarterback just seems wrong.

I am disagreeing with your use of the term. In my estimation Kaepernick is not a developmental quarter.

Here is an article about possible developmental quarterbacks.

Developmental QB prospects

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/04/12/developmental-qb-prospects

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

TE is the centerpiece? Wha?

If Vance was a stinker at catching passes he shouldnt have been drafted. And he's not.

In the last three drafts, the top offensive position drafted was QB, WR, and TE. We blew it with AJ Jenkins and while I think Vance is a decent player, he hasn't impressed me with his receiving skills. So while I think the TE position is a very important one in Harbaugh's offense, Vance hasn't exactly lit it up - but I understand it takes time for receivers to develop in any offensive system. Specially with a newbie QB with less than a full season starting for half of the year. As for the TE position in Harbaugh's offense - he values TE's for the versatility they bring to his long ball raider like offense. The great Raider Super Bowl offenses had some great TE's and RB's. TE's in Harbaugh's offense are just really big ball control WR's. Or at least that's how I think he approaches using them. This offense really becomes tough to stop if they have speed at the WR positions. Unfortunately they didn't have that speed last year.

I don't see that at all.

TE's are for blocking in Harbaugh's offense.

We happen to have a great blocking tight end who happens to run a 4.38.

Is that what you mean by centerpiece?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

I agree with both of your posts here and the key is--development. Three years under Harbaugh, second full starting year for CK and Vance is just learning the game. On top of that the injuries to WRs, the Oline being dinged up and somewhat erratic, led to a limitation of offensive progress. So, while I not wild about the play calling it may have been impacted by these limitations.

It was only in his third year that Bill Walsh began winning and installing the offense took all of that time...and was always a work in progress. I hope this coaching staff can have the same end result...but they have already been to the playoffs...every year!

Yes, and I'll follow it up with a quote from Buck who disagrees with me and you, but I'll explain my position.

Originally posted by buck:

When I think of a "developmental QB," Kaepernick is not the quarterback that comes to mind.

Harbaugh, Baalke, and York have all publically stressed the importance of signing Kaepernick to a long term extension.
When exactly do teams sign developmental quarterbacks to long term extensions.

I agree that Kaepernick is still learning the craft, still developing if you will, but calling him a developmental quarterback just seems wrong.

I am disagreeing with your use of the term. In my estimation Kaepernick is not a developmental quarter.

Here is an article about possible developmental quarterbacks.

Developmental QB prospects

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/04/12/developmental-qb-prospects

I guess I'll split some hairs here with the word *developmental* -- first of all, clearly he is a superior athlete. I think a guy like Kaepernick does not come around but once in a decade. He has the whole package. Unreal speed, acceleration, elusiveness, tremendous arm strength - maybe one of the strongest arms since Bartowski. Great accuracy since Steve, Marino, Staubach and Joe. Adding to his great accuracy is his tremendous accuracy while *moving.* I'm going to say something and I've been crucified here and on the official boards for saying this - but I don't mind because I strongly believe this -- **In my personal opinion** I think the guy has the physical talents to be a hall of fame player. His ceiling is so high - I still haven't seen it after seeing him play for the last three years as a backup and as a starter.

Now, having said that, I think he is still developing as a QB, hence to me he's still a developmental player. **However** his physical talents are so rare and so abundant that it masks a lot of things, and he gets away with a lot of things -- where lesser talented QB's will not because their lack of physical gifts. If not for his incredible physical gifts, I really don't see him performing much better than some other developmental QB's out there during certain games last year. He's still not consistent. But what I also mean is that he's rapidly developing too. By playoff time last year, he'd improved greatly from the beginning of the year. Clearly he's a **rapidly** developing QB. I look forward to seeing him develop into a complete QB this year - that is my hope because Russell Wilson is one hell of a QB that he will have to face off for the rest of his career. If he doesn't dramatically improve, Russell Wilson will continue to be ahead of him. If there is one thing I wish, I wish Russell Wilson was in the AFC and in Tom Brady's division.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

I don't see that at all.

TE's are for blocking in Harbaugh's offense.

We happen to have a great blocking tight end who happens to run a 4.38.

Is that what you mean by centerpiece?

13 TD's vs 7 for Quan.

On some teams, a fullback will score a lot of tds from the 1 yard line. That doesn't make him a centerpiece.

I don't think Vern's TD total has a lot of bearing on whether his position could be considered a "centerpiece" in our offense or not.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

On some teams, a fullback will score a lot of tds from the 1 yard line. That doesn't make him a centerpiece.

I don't think Vern's TD total has a lot of bearing on whether his position could be considered a "centerpiece" in our offense or not.

Article

Originally posted by buck:
When I think of a "developmental QB," Kaepernick is not the quarterback that comes to mind.

Harbaugh, Baalke, and York have all publically stressed the importance of signing Kaepernick to a long term extension.
When exactly do teams sign developmental quarterbacks to long term extensions.

I agree that Kaepernick is still learning the craft, still developing if you will, but calling him a developmental quarterback just seems wrong.

I am disagreeing with your use of the term. In my estimation Kaepernick is not a developmental quarter.

Here is an article about possible developmental quarterbacks.

Developmental QB prospects

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/04/12/developmental-qb-prospects

I do not recall using the term "developmental." While all QBs are in a process of development, some are more complete than others. . At least they are developing until they are diminishing. Brees, Mannings, Rodgers are examples of developed QBs. CK is a young guy with oodles of talent who is learning how to read defenses and how to use touch...that is not an example of a complete NFL QB. When a QB shows as much possibility as CK you sign them...just as all good QBs are. You do not wait until they are FAs and hope to keep them...unless you are a real risk taker.

QBs who had talent and were signed to big contracts can haunt teams...Romo is an example of a guy who I think was vastly over paid based on potential. CK may be another example but I hope not...and believe he will be much better than Romo in a year or two.