2013 - Week 11: Thoughts after rewatching the game

Originally posted by reasonable1:
This forum is hilarious. The excuses for this putrid play are eye opening.

An excuse and an explanation are 2 different things.

Some of us would like to understand why he's struggling instead of just saying "he sucks".

You don't like it, feel free not to read or comment.

Originally posted by thl408:
Got it. There's some talk about this in the "Baldwin part of blame". I hate the logic that the WR has to show control while already off the field of play (already out of bounds). My stance is that once he's out of bounds by having his fingernail touch the white, the play is dead and nothing beyond this should be a part of determining whether he has or does not have control. I know I'm just b***hing about a rule.

It's been a rule for at least 2 full seasons. EVERY WR and QB know the rule.

Baldwin should have made the catch in that situation.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by crabman82:
just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash

BS.

Those young QBs are struggling as well. Playing better? Probably. They are still struggling tho.

Nobody cares about Brees in 2002? Sad. You should. Only short sighted people don't use history as a guide. If you don't learn from it you are domed to repeat it.

Essentially, you have made my point about perspective for me.

marvin this league changed since 2002 and aside from that, why go back so far when you dont have to? theres around 8-10 young qbs in the same range as kaep starts wise who he should be compared to. it seems on the surface you went back to take a story of a future HOF qb struggling to find himself at the start of his career. of course he can turn it around and of course theres going to be 49er fans who choose to believe he wont. drew brees over 10 years ago is irrelevant to what kaep is going to do in the future. as far as those young qbs, i never said they were playing great i was saying thats who he should be compared too, not some cherry picked feel good story from 10 years ago.

I chose Brees because we just played him. I didn't Cherry Pick it at random. There are several similar stories.

The problem is that we are in the "I want it now" stage of football so we all lose perspective.

Yes, rules have changed a bit so its easier to pass. That doesn't make the business of playing football from a mental standpoint any easier. I can't site any examples of players who have struggled recently and turned it around because we haven't seen it yet. My guess is that there are guys have trouble now that will eventually develop into some of the best in the NFl and then 10 years from now someone will make a similar comparison to the one I just made and someone like you will say its ancient history.

You can choose all you want to discount everything I said, but in my personal opinion its folly to disregard history because a couple guys had success right away.

i feel my perspective on kaep is pretty good. i wasnt one of those people thinking he could throw for 3500 yards and run for 1000 yards and be league mvp. i've watched this league for a long time and totally understand the aspect of regression. hes either regressed or teams have caught up to him and he hasnt adjusted. either way hes playing pretty bad. we as fans over analyze our own teams and like make little excuses for our guys from time to time. yeah some guys dropped passes yesterday, i also know when a rival teams qb plays like s**t, we just say he played like s**t without going over everything with a fine tooth comb to see if their guys dropped passes, missed assignments or whatever. its the nature of the beast, i get it.

I agree with most of that.

I think my point in general is that some people say he's raw. Some people say its the WRs. Some people say its scheme. Some people say he just sucks and will never improve.

I think its a combination of the first 3. No one factor.

I still think he's going to be a hell of a QB. Why? The kid WANTS it. He's Smart. He has all the physical ability and he can make all the throws.

I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

he is raw. the problem is fans dont want to be sold that on the heels of a super bowl appearance last year. throw in a team with some veterans who dont have time on their side and its a very much win now thing. had he not been everywhere in commercials this offseason i think quite a few fans would be a little easier on him. i understand why he put himself out there, hes making very little money compared to his peers. when he did that he boxed himself in if his play ever dropped off. it also doesnt help ppl think wilson watches film 82 hours a day and alex smith is now 9-1. i'm totally patient with the guy but i also totally see how some people feel ripped off and sold a bill of goods to this point.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by reasonable1:

This forum is hilarious. The excuses for this putrid play are eye opening.

An excuse and an explanation are 2 different things.

Some of us would like to understand why he's struggling instead of just saying "he sucks".

You don't like it, feel free not to read or comment.

Save it Marvin. The guy has been really bad...no explanation necessary. I understand his youth....but this is troubling to say the very least.

Nice write up. I think Kaep has a LOT to learn. He's not there yet. He is an avg QB at best. I've heard a lot of stuff about potential, and how great he can be. Well, he needs to be really good first...and what he's doing lately doesn't ring confidence or ability.
The good teams make the fix before it's too late...and right now, even if the 49ers want to fix this, not sure they have any options. We have 6 games left, and might win 4, and very lucky to win 5. This team is weak when playing against winning teams. Seattle and AZ will be tough for sure.
Whatever at this point.

Originally posted by reasonable1:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by reasonable1:
This forum is hilarious. The excuses for this putrid play are eye opening.

An excuse and an explanation are 2 different things.

Some of us would like to understand why he's struggling instead of just saying "he sucks".

You don't like it, feel free not to read or comment.

Save it Marvin. The guy has been really bad...no explanation necessary. I understand his youth....but this is troubling to say the very least.

Well, if YOU say so then we'll all just say he sucks and be done with it. Such a time saver.

SMH.

My problem with Kap relates to Seattle. Yes I hate the Seahawks. But dang, Russell Wilson has been a pro less time than Kap and looks great in everything he does (including looking like a professional when being interviewed) while Kap does not. Same with Andrew Luck - he has the look of a really good QB. Hate to say it, but I would take either of those two over Kap. And I never thought I would say that last year.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Well, if YOU say so then we'll all just say he sucks and be done with it. Such a time saver.

SMH.

I never said he sucks...however to sit here and justify absolutely putrid play with longwinded explanations are a waste of time.

Kap could be good some day (I hope), but man he sucks right now!

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by crabman82:
just responding to the kaep stuff as i have yet to read your entire post. the stuff about drew brees first few years or any other qb in that category about 10-15 years ago, i just dont see how it applies to now. we have all these young qbs in years 2, 3, 4 and 5. thats who he needs to be compared to and when you get down to the bottom of it, its more specifically russell wilson cus of being in the same division. nobody cares about drew brees in 2002. kaepernick is flat out struggling and its tough to watch especially when they roll to commercials and you see him in a bunch of them. he put himself out there this offseason and if he slipped a bit there was going to be a backlash

BS.

Those young QBs are struggling as well. Playing better? Probably. They are still struggling tho.

Nobody cares about Brees in 2002? Sad. You should. Only short sighted people don't use history as a guide. If you don't learn from it you are domed to repeat it.

Essentially, you have made my point about perspective for me.

marvin this league changed since 2002 and aside from that, why go back so far when you dont have to? theres around 8-10 young qbs in the same range as kaep starts wise who he should be compared to. it seems on the surface you went back to take a story of a future HOF qb struggling to find himself at the start of his career. of course he can turn it around and of course theres going to be 49er fans who choose to believe he wont. drew brees over 10 years ago is irrelevant to what kaep is going to do in the future. as far as those young qbs, i never said they were playing great i was saying thats who he should be compared too, not some cherry picked feel good story from 10 years ago.

I chose Brees because we just played him. I didn't Cherry Pick it at random. There are several similar stories.

The problem is that we are in the "I want it now" stage of football so we all lose perspective.

Yes, rules have changed a bit so its easier to pass. That doesn't make the business of playing football from a mental standpoint any easier. I can't site any examples of players who have struggled recently and turned it around because we haven't seen it yet. My guess is that there are guys have trouble now that will eventually develop into some of the best in the NFl and then 10 years from now someone will make a similar comparison to the one I just made and someone like you will say its ancient history.

You can choose all you want to discount everything I said, but in my personal opinion its folly to disregard history because a couple guys had success right away.

i feel my perspective on kaep is pretty good. i wasnt one of those people thinking he could throw for 3500 yards and run for 1000 yards and be league mvp. i've watched this league for a long time and totally understand the aspect of regression. hes either regressed or teams have caught up to him and he hasnt adjusted. either way hes playing pretty bad. we as fans over analyze our own teams and like make little excuses for our guys from time to time. yeah some guys dropped passes yesterday, i also know when a rival teams qb plays like s**t, we just say he played like s**t without going over everything with a fine tooth comb to see if their guys dropped passes, missed assignments or whatever. its the nature of the beast, i get it.

I agree with most of that.

I think my point in general is that some people say he's raw. Some people say its the WRs. Some people say its scheme. Some people say he just sucks and will never improve.

I think its a combination of the first 3. No one factor.

I still think he's going to be a hell of a QB. Why? The kid WANTS it. He's Smart. He has all the physical ability and he can make all the throws.

I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

he is raw. the problem is fans dont want to be sold that on the heels of a super bowl appearance last year. throw in a team with some veterans who dont have time on their side and its a very much win now thing. had he not been everywhere in commercials this offseason i think quite a few fans would be a little easier on him. i understand why he put himself out there, hes making very little money compared to his peers. when he did that he boxed himself in if his play ever dropped off. it also doesnt help ppl think wilson watches film 82 hours a day and alex smith is now 9-1. i'm totally patient with the guy but i also totally see how some people feel ripped off and sold a bill of goods to this point.

The expectations were so astronimically high it was nuts. When he threw for 400 and 3 TDs in the opener they were even higher.

He is raw. He is struggling. His receivers are struggling. His OC is struggling to adapt.

Its classic too much credit/too much blame scenario. The dude is hyper talented. He needs time, coaching, and receivers.

For anyone who is frustrated becaue "time is running out" on some of the older players...do you REALLY want Alex back? If you do, thats some serious revisionist history. I was one of his biggest supporters here but he is and always was limited. Do you guys really think he's be lighting it up with this corps of receivers?

Come on now.

Originally posted by reasonable1:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Well, if YOU say so then we'll all just say he sucks and be done with it. Such a time saver.

SMH.

I never said he sucks...however to sit here and justify absolutely putrid play with longwinded explanations are a waste of time.

Then don't read them or respond. Simple.

Originally posted by Marvin49:

I still think he's going to be a hell of a QB. Why? The kid WANTS it. He's Smart. He has all the physical ability and he can make all the throws.

Maybe. He physically wants it. He's a physical stud who works out like a machine, but I'm not sure other than that. Yes he's a smart dude, but It's become pretty apparent that he's either neglecting film study or just not understanding it. He has trouble reading defenses and telegraphs everything he does. Looking back, I think a lot of his success last year was unfortunately because of brute force approach with his physical gifts than actually playing fundamental football. The story of the 400 lb. running back in high school makes me think of Kaep. The kid is dominating in high school because no one can tackle him, but what's going to happen in college when he can't rely on physical traits as much and has to deal with stronger and smarter players that know how to tackle him?

Originally posted by sdcindy:
My problem with Kap relates to Seattle. Yes I hate the Seahawks. But dang, Russell Wilson has been a pro less time than Kap and looks great in everything he does (including looking like a professional when being interviewed) while Kap does not. Same with Andrew Luck - he has the look of a really good QB. Hate to say it, but I would take either of those two over Kap. And I never thought I would say that last year.

Apples and oranges in many ways. I can totally see why someone would feel that.

IMO its really different. Both Luck and Wilson played at Div 1 schools and were far more pro-ready when they were selected.

Originally posted by crabman82:
marvin this league changed since 2002 and aside from that, why go back so far when you dont have to? theres around 8-10 young qbs in the same range as kaep starts wise who he should be compared to. it seems on the surface you went back to take a story of a future HOF qb struggling to find himself at the start of his career. of course he can turn it around and of course theres going to be 49er fans who choose to believe he wont. drew brees over 10 years ago is irrelevant to what kaep is going to do in the future. as far as those young qbs, i never said they were playing great i was saying thats who he should be compared too, not some cherry picked feel good story from 10 years ago.

Yeah and how many of those young QB's you speak of have played in a Super Bowl? Yes, Kap is struggling. But it is obvious that there are far more issues than just his. You use Wilson as an example. Now, look at what he has around him. I would rather have every single one of their WR's over ours (excluding Crabtree). Baldwin (Seahawks version) is growing and has been impressive, Tate is young and a "faster version" of Hines Ward, they've got Harvin etc. Who do we have? Anquan Boldin is great under the right circumstances, Jon Baldwin is likely a bust, Manningham is OK at best, Osgood? Don't get me started. We can't always rely on Vernon to get open all the time. I heard a stat that Kap is the most successful QB taken out of the 2011 draft thus far. Not sure where I heard that, but it's interesting. We are a one dimensional team right now. If the run is not there, we lose. Usually.

Originally posted by Disp:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

I still think he's going to be a hell of a QB. Why? The kid WANTS it. He's Smart. He has all the physical ability and he can make all the throws.

Maybe. He physically wants it. He's a physical stud who works out like a machine, but I'm not sure other than that. Yes he's a smart dude, but It's become pretty apparent that he's either neglecting film study or just not understanding it. He has trouble reading defenses and telegraphs everything he does. Looking back, I think a lot of his success last year was unfortunately because of brute force approach with his physical gifts than actually playing fundamental football. The story of the 400 lb. running back in high school makes me think of Kaep. The kid is dominating in high school because no one can tackle him, but what's going to happen in college when he can't rely on physical traits as much and has to deal with stronger and smarter players that know how to tackle him?

Nah, I think last years success had alot more to do with the supporting cast creating huge amounts of space.

How often last year did we see him throing to guys that weren't just open, but open by 5-10 YARDS. These throws haven't been there this year because the entire field has been condensed. Teams are able to crowd the line much more than they did late last year.

Kap needs to learn to be able to throw into tighter windows and come off the first read quicker.