Is It Time To Identify A Franchise WR ?

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
After the abysmal experience of playing the NYG in NFCC game with only one WR(CRbs), I believe Coach H and Trent made it a point to have a gang of 6 or 7 receivers(WRs and TEs) all of which are capable of catching a ball, and are very good at it. Relying on one guy just doesn't cut it. I see our 2 TE set as being hell on wheels for Ds, in that both guys are capable of doing anything. And you know JH and TB got Patton, Lockette, and Vance to be sure we had not only plenty of receivers, but we had extras. Finally I see a lot more of LMJ being thrown to in backfield and then let the D see if they can catch him. My guess is he will be like Reggie bush, and Sproles....really tough guys to catch once they have the ball.

Noone is suggesting to rely on just 1 WR. I have said it before, having 1 great WR is not mutually exclusive to having a great supporting cast of decent receivers. Is really about improving the overall quality of our receiving corp. It should be noted just cos there is a group of 6-7 receivers, it doesn't necessarily mean they will be able to produce, it all depends on the quality of the receivers. We saw it last seasosn when we were challenged by massive injury problems, for example we played both AJJ and Chad Hall and nothing came of it.

Originally posted by GNielsen:
I think a lot of us get your point but so what? Yes, Julio Jones is better than AJ Jenkins at this point. So what? Megatron is better than Crabtree and the team might not be able to sign Crabtree. So what? Would I like to have Megatron and Jones on the team? Sure, wouldn't anyone? But it's not realistic. And it's also not realistic to have one of the highest priced defenses in the league and also have one of the highest price receivers AND one of the highest price QB's. People need to get into the real world. Building and managing an NFL team is a complicated thing - it's not as simple as "hey, let's get ourselves a Julio Jones and then we'll be fine."

Do you play Madden? Just wondering.

Did I say go and trade for one ? I said we could draft one. Whether you want to give the guy the big contract after his rookie contract, that is another discussion.

And no I don't play Madden or any computer games for that matter.

Originally posted by BillWalsh:
I have no problem trading up for a top talent at wide reciever. You take the best players, period. You aren't going to go into a draft worrying about what you have to pay a linebacker in a few years, you go in worrying about getting the best talent there is. Eventually, if you keep picking talented players then you will have to choose who goes and who stays for a contract. It's all part of the business. Doesn't mean you don't trade up for a guy who will someday command a huge pay day though. If he's a star from his rookie year on, then you can atleast have him for 5 years before deciding on a huge contract. If he holds out, that hurts him more then the talented team itself.

At the same time, I would trade up for a shut down corner over a dominant wide reciever. That could change our defense substanstially.

Yep. It doesn't matter who we trade up for, be it a Julio Jones or Darrelle Revis type talent, if he turns out to be that good, he will eventually demand $16 mil a year, then is up to the organization whether they want to pay for it. But, like you said, at least you could have the guy for 4-5 years for next to nothing. We traded up for Eric Reid this year, if he turns out to be that good, he will also be able to demand $8-9 mil a year down the road.

Originally posted by Rascal:
This is Kaep's personal choice or preference in picking Crab to throw to.

How do you know this? The play called could have had Crabtree as the primary receiver. If that was the case, the decision to throw to Crabtree was not entirely a matter of Kaepernick's personal choice or preference, was it?

If you watched the game, it was clear that Kaep had pressure coming at him, and did not have enough time to go to the second or third options or wait for them to come open.

Not only do you assert that it was matter of personal choice or preference, but make it seem as if it was a result of bias on the part of Kaepernick. ,

Originally posted by Rascal:

According to Kaep, he said Crab gets open. But, in my view, they just happen to be good friends and they have great chemistry on the field. So, to me the problem lies in : 1) Kaep perhaps being biased on his choice of target

This point of view is rather insulting, and quite frankly tantamount to innuendo. If you do not know Kaepernick pretty well, you have no reasonable basis for this assertion.

Argumentation by unfounded assertions and innuendos seems more than a bit simplistic and beyond the boundaries of objective discussion.

Rule 1


Don't be a jerk. Certain topics will get heated debates but please remember, disagree/attack the idea and not the poster.


There is actually no reason for this thread to get heated. So chill down and be nice to each other.

Trying to think of a receiver the 9ers should have traded up for the past four or five years...as they did for Rice. Green is the only guy I felt strongly about and the team would have lost A Smith to get him. So I really think trying to draft a super, can't miss WR is a pipe dream unless a team is very lucky. Des Bryant was probably the next most impressive guy...and he's just too much trouble.

Further back, Calvin Johnson was the last super WR drafted and was #2 in 2007, with Ted Ginn being the second WR drafted that year at #9

Much safer to build your WR corps with good solid guys who fit into the system. Baalke and Harbaugh are in the process and will get there soon!

Originally posted by English:
Rule 1


Don't be a jerk. Certain topics will get heated debates but please remember, disagree/attack the idea and not the poster.


There is actually no reason for this thread to get heated. So chill down and be nice to each other.

Well said English. No problem. As for me, I will refrain from retaliating from this point on. When you have comments that hone it on punctuation correctness and discredit the validity of contents based on whether the poster is a native English speaker, to me that indirectly challenges and discriminates on nationality and race. At that juncture, in essence it tells you where the discussion is heading.

I tell you what, I will do you one up, I will ignore posters such as buck and NickSh49 from now on. I would rather take the high road, adhere to the forum rules and enjoy what the 49ers Webzone has to offer.

Thank you very much.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Trying to think of a receiver the 9ers should have traded up for the past four or five years...as they did for Rice. Green is the only guy I felt strongly about and the team would have lost A Smith to get him. So I really think trying to draft a super, can't miss WR is a pipe dream unless a team is very lucky. Des Bryant was probably the next most impressive guy...and he's just too much trouble.

Further back, Calvin Johnson was the last super WR drafted and was #2 in 2007, with Ted Ginn being the second WR drafted that year at #9

Much safer to build your WR corps with good solid guys who fit into the system. Baalke and Harbaugh are in the process and will get there soon!

No doubt it is not easy to find that great receiver. But, isn't that true with any position we trade up for ? We traded up from 31st th 18th to secure Eric Reid, theoretically speaking he could be a bust too. The way I look at it is no matter who we draft disregard of position, there is always going to be a certain degree of risk attached to it.

Anyway, in the meantime, let's just hope one of the back-ups emerge this season cos we will need them to given Crab's injury.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Trying to think of a receiver the 9ers should have traded up for the past four or five years...as they did for Rice. Green is the only guy I felt strongly about and the team would have lost A Smith to get him. So I really think trying to draft a super, can't miss WR is a pipe dream unless a team is very lucky. Des Bryant was probably the next most impressive guy...and he's just too much trouble.

Further back, Calvin Johnson was the last super WR drafted and was #2 in 2007, with Ted Ginn being the second WR drafted that year at #9

Much safer to build your WR corps with good solid guys who fit into the system. Baalke and Harbaugh are in the process and will get there soon!

I vaguely recall either an article or some research done maybe four or five years ago about first round busts by position. Fairly sure qb's and wr's were right at the top of the list.

Top of my head we have only taken 4 in the first round since Rice. Stokes was a disappointment for one first round pick. For two, he was a calamity. Woods was a straight bust, the epitome of busting. Crabtree has had a slow start but looks as though he will produce at some level although at present the injuries are marring his career. A lot depends now if he can be re-signed and if his health improves. And of course, the jury is still out on Jenkins.

That is a lousy return for five first round picks. The draft is a lottery but I have felt for some time that your chances of success with a first round pick are relatively lower at the wide receiver position. Obviously if it is your final gaping hole, you are going to have to take a shot. But there is plenty of value in the lower rounds and maybe a pool of 4 or 5 reasonable players would be better than that gamble on a high pick.

And as I have said before, whilst this team is loaded, age and FA losses is going to provide other targets for that early pick.

Tough call. Guess that's why Baalke is paid the big bucks.

Originally posted by English:
I vaguely recall either an article or some research done maybe four or five years ago about first round busts by position. Fairly sure qb's and wr's were right at the top of the list.

Top of my head we have only taken 4 in the first round since Rice. Stokes was a disappointment for one first round pick. For two, he was a calamity. Woods was a straight bust, the epitome of busting. Crabtree has had a slow start but looks as though he will produce at some level although at present the injuries are marring his career. A lot depends now if he can be re-signed and if his health improves. And of course, the jury is still out on Jenkins.

That is a lousy return for five first round picks. The draft is a lottery but I have felt for some time that your chances of success with a first round pick are relatively lower at the wide receiver position. Obviously if it is your final gaping hole, you are going to have to take a shot. But there is plenty of value in the lower rounds and maybe a pool of 4 or 5 reasonable players would be better than that gamble on a high pick.

And as I have said before, whilst this team is loaded, age and FA losses is going to provide other targets for that early pick.

Tough call. Guess that's why Baalke is paid the big bucks.

I thought it was quite interesting that you brought up QBs and WRs busting more than other positions. I thought it kind of makes sense as both are skill positions which may make it that much harder for the player to grasp in transitioning into the NFL. So, I decided to look into it and see whether I can find anything. I think you might find this article by Walter Football quite surprising :

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftquarterbackriskmyth.php

I am not saying WRs are not bust-prone, but I think is quite telling that on top of WRs and QBs, there are other positions that can be just as vulnerable. I think the point is like I have said before, regardless of positions and no matter whether it is a high, middle or low round draft, the risk will always be there although the cost involved might vary pending on the round the player is drafted.

Originally posted by Rascal:
No doubt it is not easy to find that great receiver. But, isn't that true with any position we trade up for ? We traded up from 31st th 18th to secure Eric Reid, theoretically speaking he could be a bust too. The way I look at it is no matter who we draft disregard of position, there is always going to be a certain degree of risk attached to it.

Anyway, in the meantime, let's just hope one of the back-ups emerge this season cos we will need them to given Crab's injury.

My problem is with the idea of trying to find an elite receiver rather than taking the best player. I'm not opposed to trading up...just haven't seen a player who screamed "Star" at this position except for AJ Green. I really liked the Patton pick as it was a good pick for the spot and he had been rated much higher by many pundits...great value. . The other possibilities were all all marred in some manner or another. The Jenkins pick is a good example of just how few ready made star WRs are out there...they took a shot at someone who really needed work to be a pro.

Don't forget, the team still has Boldin as a wily vet. Without that trade they would be looking to start...ouch...two young guys who have no experience.

Originally posted by English:
I vaguely recall either an article or some research done maybe four or five years ago about first round busts by position. Fairly sure qb's and wr's were right at the top of the list.

Top of my head we have only taken 4 in the first round since Rice. Stokes was a disappointment for one first round pick. For two, he was a calamity. Woods was a straight bust, the epitome of busting. Crabtree has had a slow start but looks as though he will produce at some level although at present the injuries are marring his career. A lot depends now if he can be re-signed and if his health improves. And of course, the jury is still out on Jenkins.

That is a lousy return for five first round picks. The draft is a lottery but I have felt for some time that your chances of success with a first round pick are relatively lower at the wide receiver position. Obviously if it is your final gaping hole, you are going to have to take a shot. But there is plenty of value in the lower rounds and maybe a pool of 4 or 5 reasonable players would be better than that gamble on a high pick.

And as I have said before, whilst this team is loaded, age and FA losses is going to provide other targets for that early pick.

Tough call. Guess that's why Baalke is paid the big bucks.

Agree with this and the bold is my problem with the idea of looking for a true impact player rather than creating one. Have to bring in several and have a competitive camp to bring out their best. They don't grow on trees!

A healthy Crabtree with a diverse set of complimentary recievers is more then enough for a effective passing attack in the nfl.

Originally posted by natrone06:
A healthy Boldin with a diverse set of complimentary recievers is more then enough for a effective passing attack in the nfl.

Updated!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by natrone06:
A healthy Boldin with a diverse set of complimentary recievers is more then enough for a effective passing attack in the nfl.

Updated!

But, beyond this year ? Anquan will turn 34 in Oct, 2014.

Originally posted by Rascal:
But, beyond this year ? Anquan will turn 34 in Oct, 2014.

We have a hard time agreeing on the now, let alone the future! Perhaps Jenkins and Patton are our future...or Lockette...or next years draft pick.