2013 Team Needs - Updates

Originally posted by cciowa:
i really think they are ok with just putting all the kids into the mix and letting them duke it out. Now if kyle williams would not have been ready to go for the first game then you may have to sign someone but for now, untill we see what we got from the kids, esp jenkins, stay the course. Your comments about who is out there is huge cuz I do not think there is anyone out there . i refuse to entertain any miss lloyd or owens blather! besides i contend moore will shock everyone and emerge as a huge shock for us, like willie mcgee was in 1976 for us

Nice! I'm actually great with the youngsters fighting it out as well, personally. This is what I have at this moment with our guy Moore, right on the bubble.

WR (5): X = A.J. Jenkins/Ricardo Lockette Y = Quinton Patton/Kyle Williams Z = Anquan Boldin; Mario Manningham & Michael Crabtree (PUP) - Kassim Osgood, Marlon Moore are right on the bubble for ST gunner abilities and veteran receiver presences.

And let's be real here...we have Vance McDonald and there is high chance both Gray (H-back) and Daniels (swiss-army knife also) make the team as well. So with VD, McDonald, Gray, Boldin plus other weapons such as Gore, Hunter and James, how many 3+ WR sets are we really going to run? This should be a creative run/TE-heavy offense with the TE's and H-backs being versatile and moving around all over the field taking up a number of the receiving targets (along with Boldin). If we can emerge a #2, wonderful but don't be surprised if the slot WR's get more action than the #2 [Williams/Patton/Manningham (later)].

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:
i really think they are ok with just putting all the kids into the mix and letting them duke it out. Now if kyle williams would not have been ready to go for the first game then you may have to sign someone but for now, untill we see what we got from the kids, esp jenkins, stay the course. Your comments about who is out there is huge cuz I do not think there is anyone out there . i refuse to entertain any miss lloyd or owens blather! besides i contend moore will shock everyone and emerge as a huge shock for us, like willie mcgee was in 1976 for us

Nice! I'm actually great with the youngsters fighting it out as well, personally. This is what I have at this moment with our guy Moore, right on the bubble.

WR (5): X = A.J. Jenkins/Ricardo Lockette Y = Quinton Patton/Kyle Williams Z = Anquan Boldin; Mario Manningham & Michael Crabtree (PUP) - Kassim Osgood, Marlon Moore are right on the bubble for ST gunner abilities and veteran receiver presences.

And let's be real here...we have Vance McDonald and there is high chance both Gray (H-back) and Daniels (swiss-army knife also) make the team as well. So with VD, McDonald, Gray, Boldin plus other weapons such as Gore, Hunter and James, how many 3+ WR sets are we really going to run? This should be a creative run/TE-heavy offense with the TE's and H-backs being versatile and moving around all over the field taking up a number of the receiving targets (along with Boldin). If we can emerge a #2, wonderful but don't be surprised if the slot WR's get more action than the #2 [Williams/Patton/Manningham (later)].

ok. now you are just showing off with your terms and labels I really do not know a slot guy from a box and one so I just say, let em fight it out for the spots. I will leave it up to smart posters like you and others what we call them!! i know it does tend to give some fans a heart attack when you just let a bunch of kids battle for important starts but I think those are the fun battles to watch in pre season. its like our safety spot. Let our rookie and the rest of the guys who have in that spot go into one big pot and see what happens. Thats fun!

Extend JH....but he's gotta get #6 first tho

Originally posted by cciowa:
ok. now you are just showing off with your terms and labels I really do not know a slot guy from a box and one so I just say, let em fight it out for the spots. I will leave it up to smart posters like you and others what we call them!! i know it does tend to give some fans a heart attack when you just let a bunch of kids battle for important starts but I think those are the fun battles to watch in pre season. its like our safety spot. Let our rookie and the rest of the guys who have in that spot go into one big pot and see what happens. Thats fun!

LOL! PIcture the alphabet from left to right: X - (offensive line) - Y - Z.

Last year Moss typically lined up at the X, Manningham and Kyle Williams in the Y (slot) and Crabtree out at the Z. Slot guys are typically quicker, shiftier, elusive (Manningham/Williams/Patton). And you've got your bigger boys out wider and they often have deep speed as well. What makes Boldin special is he lines up out wide but ALSO slides inside to the slot in the RZ and kills guys like Whitner for TD's in the Superbowl. AJ was learning all three WR positions last year. And in our offense, there are a ton of "packages" which means really, we have no Jerry Rice playing X or John Taylor playing Z, primarily. We have no #1, #2 or #3 b/c guys are used interchangeably depending on the play call. Now we'll add VD to these WR "packages" as well. But for now, guys will focus on one position more first d/t being young and still learning this offense:

X = Michael Crabtree/A.J. Jenkins/Ricardo Lockette/Marlon Moore
Y (slot) = Manningham/Quinton Patton/Kyle Williams
Z = Anquan Boldin/Kassim Osgood

But to your point, yup, let 'em play it out!!! If AJ struggles on the outside, we may find he is best suited for the slot. IIRC, Crabtree killed it as a slot WR in college but put on more muscle/weight and became an outside guy for us.

My whole point is, the loss of Crabtree is big but b/c of the TYPE of offense we run (power run/heavy 2 TE sets/mulitple RB's/Q formation/jumbo packages), that X spot isn't as critical as some may believe. If a guy like Jenkins DOES become a legit threat outside there (or at least a great decoy like Moss last year), that's just icing on the cake, baby!

I threw this in to really mess with your head (haha). Patton said it's not enough for the receivers to learn just one position. They all must be ready to play three positions. "In our offense, you have to learn the concepts and not just the plays," Patton said. "You might be an X, but they could throw you in at F or Z, so you got to know those positions, too."

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/matt-maiocco/patton-soaks-knowledge-49ers-veterans

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:
ok. now you are just showing off with your terms and labels I really do not know a slot guy from a box and one so I just say, let em fight it out for the spots. I will leave it up to smart posters like you and others what we call them!! i know it does tend to give some fans a heart attack when you just let a bunch of kids battle for important starts but I think those are the fun battles to watch in pre season. its like our safety spot. Let our rookie and the rest of the guys who have in that spot go into one big pot and see what happens. Thats fun!

LOL! PIcture the alphabet from left to right: X - (offensive line) - Y - Z.

Last year Moss typically lined up at the X, Manningham and Kyle Williams in the Y (slot) and Crabtree out at the Z. Slot guys are typically quicker, shiftier, elusive (Manningham/Williams/Patton). And you've got your bigger boys out wider and they often have deep speed as well. What makes Boldin special is he lines up out wide but ALSO slides inside to the slot in the RZ and kills guys like Whitner for TD's in the Superbowl. AJ was learning all three WR positions last year. And in our offense, there are a ton of "packages" which means really, we have no Jerry Rice playing X or John Taylor playing Z, primarily. We have no #1, #2 or #3 b/c guys are used interchangeably depending on the play call. Now we'll add VD to these WR "packages" as well. But for now, guys will focus on one position more first d/t being young and still learning this offense:

X = Michael Crabtree/A.J. Jenkins/Ricardo Lockette/Marlon Moore
Y (slot) = Manningham/Quinton Patton/Kyle Williams
Z = Anquan Boldin/Kassim Osgood

But to your point, yup, let 'em play it out!!! If AJ struggles on the outside, we may find he is best suited for the slot. IIRC, Crabtree killed it as a slot WR in college but put on more muscle/weight and became an outside guy for us.

My whole point is, the loss of Crabtree is big but b/c of the TYPE of offense we run (power run/heavy 2 TE sets/mulitple RB's/Q formation/jumbo packages), that X spot isn't as critical as some may believe. If a guy like Jenkins DOES become a legit threat outside there (or at least a great decoy like Moss last year), that's just icing on the cake, baby!

I threw this in to really mess with your head (haha). Patton said it's not enough for the receivers to learn just one position. They all must be ready to play three positions. "In our offense, you have to learn the concepts and not just the plays," Patton said. "You might be an X, but they could throw you in at F or Z, so you got to know those positions, too."

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/matt-maiocco/patton-soaks-knowledge-49ers-veterans

i am in way over my head here

Thanks for the lesson , Command...I had it backward. And cc, the only thing that really matters is that you know football....good and bad. Your knowledge is every bit as good as anyone on the WZ, even tho some of the terminology is funky...it also isn't necessary. Knowing inherently a good coach from a questionable. coach...well you get A+ on that. Knowing which player is giving his all and which guy is just mailing it in...well, you know that too. Don't be bugged by not knowing names of special packages, etc. You know football , my man, and that is plenty good. Finally, your knowledge of long ago 49er football is way better than most, and lite yrs ahead of young 'uns. That counts a bunch...don't sell yourself short.

Originally posted by cciowa:
i am in way over my head here

Not at all my friend! These are just semantics of the different types of WR positions...much agreed with Pas as well. In the end, even if nobody "steps up" in Crabtree's WR spot, we should be plenty fine with all the weapons we have on offense and given the type of offense we run. We'll be fine. But I do expect someone on the outside to step up when called upon opposite Boldin. And I look forward to seeing Bolding move inside to the slot WITH VD and McDonald on the field at the same time and I'm very excited to see them focusing on VD and finding new ways to get him the ball. He's a mismatch, no doubt.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by cciowa:
i am in way over my head here

Not at all my friend! These are just semantics of the different types of WR positions...much agreed with Pas as well. In the end, even if nobody "steps up" in Crabtree's WR spot, we should be plenty fine with all the weapons we have on offense and given the type of offense we run. We'll be fine. But I do expect someone on the outside to step up when called upon opposite Boldin. And I look forward to seeing Bolding move inside to the slot WITH VD and McDonald on the field at the same time and I'm very excited to see them focusing on VD and finding new ways to get him the ball. He's a mismatch, no doubt.

Now this is the first thing you have typed that I understand In the first week of the injury to crabs I was thinking, woe is us. Now i am over it, I think we will be fine and I could care less if crabs comes back this year or next year. But you guys are right,,, we MUST find a way to get vernon involved. to have our best playings setting around as decoys or playing checkers is stupid

cc, there is only one way to get all our players involved...and that is call plays for every guy out there. One or maybe two games last yr we had 8 guys receive passes, including 2 RBs. Then suddenly that all went away, and we got stuck on crbs or maybe 1/4 of the time, Vernon. Not this yr. We just have too much firepower not to use it all. And the more guys who catch the ball the less you will see someone, either Vernon or anquan get doubled. Peyton, not a bad Qb, routinely has 7 or 8 guys catching passes. That does two things: one, it lessens the likelihood of the D ganging up on the QBs favorite target, and two, it is much more likely to get someone open, in that the D backfield isn't seeing the same lineup every play. It also protects us from a season ending injury to our best receiver with no one else ready to step up. We have all the above catching passes and pretty soon, all are game ready, and #2, the D never knows where the pass is going.

But for this to happen, roman has to be on the same page....as opposed to last yr, when once again, we got our "ball catchers" hurt, including one horrific play where we lost two of them...kyle and hunter. That won't happen this yr, as we are gonna have on helluva lot of guys catching passes....IF,, IF, roman uses all his ammo. We'll have to wait and see on that one. There are utterances about how great roman is...well, let's see if he uses each and every potential receiver or RB we have on pass plays.

Israel Idonije to the 49ers?
https://twitter.com/thekapman/status/348915892328996864
David Kaplan ‏@thekapman

Bears are still considering Israel Idonijie but after chatting with him today it sure sounds like the 49ers may be his next team.

Originally posted by jimrat:
Israel Idonije to the 49ers?
https://twitter.com/thekapman/status/348915892328996864
David Kaplan ‏@thekapman

Bears are still considering Israel Idonijie but after chatting with him today it sure sounds like the 49ers may be his next team.

Hmmmm, that would be interesting. Well, makes sense on the freed up money and 2 year deal (basically) for Justin; shared time = longevity. "Tank, take your time brother."

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jimrat:
Israel Idonije to the 49ers?
https://twitter.com/thekapman/status/348915892328996864
David Kaplan ‏@thekapman

Bears are still considering Israel Idonijie but after chatting with him today it sure sounds like the 49ers may be his next team.

Hmmmm, that would be interesting. Well, makes sense on the freed up money and 2 year deal (basically) for Justin; shared time = longevity. "Tank, take your time brother."

remember though,, the sources and twitter who said we will sign woodson and reed?? ha I do not think we will sign anyone else unless we have some unforeseen injuries or if it becomes evident some guys will just not cut it. we really do not know that till the bullets start to fly in pre season.

Originally posted by cciowa:
remember though,, the sources and twitter who said we will sign woodson and reed?? ha I do not think we will sign anyone else unless we have some unforeseen injuries or if it becomes evident some guys will just not cut it. we really do not know that till the bullets start to fly in pre season.

Very much agreed!

Usually, one doesn't redo a contract of a starter, particularly closer to the end of his career rather than the beginning of it. Any suggestions what the idea was behind redoing Justin's contract when we evidentally didn't need the cap room? I thot it was to get somebody else on the team under the cap, and yes, I was one of those who thot it would be woodson. I guess it isn't so what in the world did they free up cap space for this yr that they might have really needed next yr? If they are looking for an extra DL, ok, I get that, but I don't see a starting relief DL out there. What is the story here. I guess we do have a leg up on cap space for next yr, but this move puzzles me....particularly, when JH and Trent don't make moves unless they have a very good reason. What is the reason?

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Usually, one doesn't redo a contract of a starter, particularly closer to the end of his career rather than the beginning of it. Any suggestions what the idea was behind redoing Justin's contract when we evidentally didn't need the cap room? I thot it was to get somebody else on the team under the cap, and yes, I was one of those who thot it would be woodson. I guess it isn't so what in the world did they free up cap space for this yr that they might have really needed next yr? If they are looking for an extra DL, ok, I get that, but I don't see a starting relief DL out there. What is the story here. I guess we do have a leg up on cap space for next yr, but this move puzzles me....particularly, when JH and Trent don't make moves unless they have a very good reason. What is the reason?

That's the 10-million dollar question right there. Was it in lieu to signing another FA? One of our own? For the cap relief in case we need it? Someone mentioned roll-over cap room, I believe?