2013 Team Needs - Updates

Goodwin really seems like he is already out the door. No restructure, not taking part in the off season training program and 3 players on the team that are eager to take his spot in Kilgore, Looney and Snyder. Remember Snyder was our center and taking all the reps when we lost Baas and hadn't yet signed Goodwin, although the club probably would rather have Kilgore or Looney in there at C and Snyder as the swing backup at all 5 positions.

NC I agree with you, I don't think this F.O. is finished yet. Not exactly sure where the money is coming for all this, but these two guys are going out of their skulls on making this a better team. Which reminds me and I posted elsewhere....if you did not see the local 9er channel tape on Okoye today,(coulda been yesterday), it was un fricking believeable. Okoye was doing the 3 tire drill with the line coach pointing the ball to one slot and then the other, and okoye was moving as fast as the coach could move the ball. He looked like a cat, nimbly and incredibly fast jumping from one slot to the other. Remember he is 303 and has huge upper body strength. But guys, he looked in practice like a guy who had done that drill hundreds of times, and guaranteed, NOBODY did it faster than Okoye did. I honestly think he starts on DL as a starting replacement for front 4 , to give justin or bigmac, or aldon a blow. Wow, that guy is amazing. Also if he liked rugby, he's gotta like contact, and i think you contact this huge man once and you are done. UNBELIEVEABLE!. Go see the vid.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
NC I agree with you, I don't think this F.O. is finished yet. Not exactly sure where the money is coming for all this, but these two guys are going out of their skulls on making this a better team. Which reminds me and I posted elsewhere....if you did not see the local 9er channel tape on Okoye today,(coulda been yesterday), it was un fricking believeable. Okoye was doing the 3 tire drill with the line coach pointing the ball to one slot and then the other, and okoye was moving as fast as the coach could move the ball. He looked like a cat, nimbly and incredibly fast jumping from one slot to the other. Remember he is 303 and has huge upper body strength. But guys, he looked in practice like a guy who had done that drill hundreds of times, and guaranteed, NOBODY did it faster than Okoye did. I honestly think he starts on DL as a starting replacement for front 4 , to give justin or bigmac, or aldon a blow. Wow, that guy is amazing. Also if he liked rugby, he's gotta like contact, and i think you contact this huge man once and you are done. UNBELIEVEABLE!. Go see the vid.

We have SO many developmental projects, it's unbelievable. Do you have a quick link to it? I'd LOVE to see that!

Originally posted by capone0:
While I wouldn't mind us doing things, it's going to mean we waive a few players to get room for our rookies and potential FAs.

I think the following players could be waived still:

Goodwin-$$$

Some players can be restructured/re-signed:

Justin
Gore
Rogers
Boldin
Whitner

You could move Whitner up with Goodwin as well on that list IMHO. Remember, he gave up more TD"s than ANY S last year and his issue isn't correctable (height/speed/leaping ability/timing). Would Dahl or an upside-rookie/youngster really be any worse? And at a much cheaper rate...? These are things the FO has to consider along with the other side of the coin (he's a leader, team-guy, can help Reid, etc.).

Yeah, some of these guys may end up restructuring AFTER they get beat by younger guys or by vets with chips on their shoulders (e.g. Nnamdi). Good list...

90 has been updated for quick reference (thanks MB)! I note all 90 here...

My (way too early) best guess at the 53:

Offense: (25)
QB (3): Colin Kaepernick, Colt McCoy and Scott Tolzien - Note: B.J. Daniels goes to the PS.
RB (3): Frank Gore, Kendall Hunter and LaMichael James; Marcus Lattimore (PUP)
FB (2): Bruce Miller and Jason Scheplar - Note: Anthony Dixon is finally cut.
WR (5): X = A.J. Jenkins/Ricardo Lockette Y = Quinton Patton/Kyle Williams Z = Anquan Boldin; Mario Manningham & Michael Crabtree (PUP) - Note: Marlon Moore may have an edge at the moment.
TE (3): Vernon Davis, Vance McDonald and MarQueis Gray (H-back) - Note: Garrett Celek may have an edge at the moment.
OT (4): Joe Staley, Anthony Davis, Adam Snyder and Al Netter; Luke Marquardt (PUP)
OG (3): Mike Iupati, Alex Boone and Joe Looney
C (2): Jonathan Goodwin and Daniel Kilgore (Joe Looney) - Note: Jonathan Goodwin may end up getting cut or restructures his contract for a backup role if both Kilgore/Looney excel here.

Defense: (25)
DE (4): Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Quinton Dial and Lawrence Okoye; Tank Carradine (PUP) - Note: Demarcus Dobbs may have an edge at the moment.
NT (3): Glenn Dorsey, Ian Williams and Lamar Divens - Note: Lamar Divens may be cut if Dial proves to be able to play both NT and LDE effectively opening up another roster spot.
OLB (4): Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Corey Lemonier and Cam Johnson
ILB (4): Patrick Willis, NaVorro Bowman, Dan Skuta and Nick Moody - Note: Michael Wilhoite may have an edge at the moment.
CB (5): Tarell Brown, Nnamdi Asomugha, Carlos Rogers, Eric Wright and Marcus Cooper; Chris Culliver (PUP) - Note: Perrish Cox and Tramaine Brock may have an edge at the moment.
S (5): Donte Whitner, Eric Reid, Craig Dahl, C.J. Spillman and Trenton Robinson

Special Teams: (3)
PK: Phil Dawson
P: Andy Lee
LS: Kevin McDermott - Note: Brian Jennings (aka God) may have an edge at the moment.

NC, just a question. All the guys brot into camp, all signed contracts(or is that incorrect?), but is it written so that if they don't make the cut, they just get a few bucks and a handshake? Certainly if Shepler, say, signed for 3 mil, is that all non guaranteed, with something like a per diem for practicing with the team? Thx

Also i think Colt makes it over your guess for #3. I believe colt can play like russ Wilson, also.

Originally posted by NCommand:
90 has been updated for quick reference (thanks MB)!

My (way too early) best guess at the 53:

Offense: (25)
QB (3): Colin Kaepernick, Scott Tolzien and B.J. Daniels - think Tolzien is similar to Colt McCoy but much more experienced in our offense. B.J. is the perfect Russell Wilson-clone to practice against and can play ST.

-McCoy makes is as 2nd and Tolzien 3rd and BJ Daniels goes to the PS but is of help running scout team drills

RB (3): Frank Gore, Kendall Hunter and LaMichael James; Marcus Lattimore (PUP) - Anthony Dixon, Jewel Hampton and D.J. Harper are gone. Marcus is red-shirted all year long.

-I believe either Dixon or Hampton will make the roster over a 2nd FB but they may not, depends on their special teams potential

FB (2): Bruce Miller and Alex Debniak - Jason Schepler is gone. Alex is the surprise win here.

-no way we keep a 2nd FB when the 1st string barely has a role

WR (5): Michael Crabtree, Anquan Boldin, A.J. Jenkins, Quinton Patton and Ricardo Lockette; Mario Manningham (PUP) - Kyle Williams, Marlon Moore, Chad Hall, Joe Hastings, Chuck Jacobs all gone. Manningham is brought along slowly and Williams is cut d/t Jenkins/Patton and others excelling in the slot and on KR's.

-Kyle Williams is the only proven PR on the roster, like it or not he is a lock to make the team. Mannigham is the 3rd receiver with Jenkins and Patton fighting for some playing time. After coming up short on WR depth the last 2 years we keep extra bodies around.

TE (3): Vernon Davis, Vance McDonald and MarQueis Gray (H-back) - Cameron Morrah and Garrett Celek are gone.

-Celek makes the roster over the completely inexperienced Gray who is stashed on the PS

OT (4): Joe Staley, Anthony Davis, Adam Snyder and Al Netter; Luke Marquardt (PUP) - Carter Bykowski and Kenny Wiggins are gone. Luke is brought along slowly (typical Niner-theme) but if healthy, could push Netter off the 53.

-It will be interesting to see who makes the 4th OT but Marquardt is completely inexperienced and missed all of last year and is still hurt, I doubt he does anything this year.

OG (3): Mike Iupati, Alex Boone and Daniel Kilgore - Wayne Tribue and Patrick Omameh are gone. Boone, Snyder, Kilgore and Looney can all play multiple positions.

-No argument here

C (2): Jonathan Goodwin and Joe Looney - Sherman Carter is gone. I would not be surprised to see Looney beat out Goodwin (late cut) with Kilgore backing him up; or Goodwin restructures to stay (ideal depth).

-This is a lock

Defense: (25)
DE (4): Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Quinton Dial and Lawrence Okoye; Tank Carradine (PUP) - Demarcus Dobbs, Will Tukuafu and Tony Jerod-Eddie are gone. Tank is brought along slowly as well. They may keep Dobbs over Divens but we use the NT/DE positions as interchangeable a lot. So who adds more immediate value?

-Carradine will make the roster and make a big contribution. Dobbs and Tukuafu will be hard to keep off the roster but one will make the team.

NT (3): Glenn Dorsey, Ian Williams and Lamar Divens (6'3" 340) - Mike Purcell is gone and Divens is used against the power running teams and in goal line and short yardage situations.

-Not keeping 3 NT's on the roster, Divens will PS material.

OLB (4): Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Corey Lemonier and Cam Johnson - Parys Haralson and Darius Fleming are gone. Cam shows he can seal the edge well AND pass rush making Haralson expendable.

-Haralson was the biggest injury loss the team had last year and the 2 Smiths paid the price late in the season and playoffs, he is a huge part ot the rotation. No way Johnson or Fleming knock him off the roster.

ILB (4): Patrick Willis, NaVorro Bowman, Dan Skuta and Nick Moody - Michael Wilhoite and Nathan Stupar are gone.

-seems like destiny

CB (5): Tarell Brown, Nnamdi Asomugha, Chris Culliver, Carlos Rogers and Marcus Cooper - Tramaine Brock, Perrish Cox, Lowell Rose and Darryl Morris are gone. Rogers restructures his contract after losing out to Nnamdi and Rose and Morris are stashed on the PS. Baalke wants bigger now...he got it in CB/depth and with Reid.

-Brock will make the roster, book it. The organization has already professed their faith in him with his contract. Cox has a real chance of making it.

S (5): Donte Whitner, Eric Reid, Craig Dahl, C.J. Spillman and Trenton Robinson - Darcel McBath and Michael Thomas are gone.

-

Special Teams: (3)
PK: Phil Dawson
P: Andy Lee - Anthony Santella is gone
LS: Kevin McDermott - Brian Jennings is gone

-Brian Jennings is not gone, he was still making tackles downfield on our pathetic kick coverage last year.

Weaknesses/Miscellaneous: We still have not solved the SS issue with Whitner starting again (gave up 14 TD's last year alone) and I'm not sure if we have a quality slot CB matchup against specialists such as Harvin/Austin. NT is still a question as well but it appears we'll use more 4-man DL with plenty of rotation for all of the front 7. Scheme is the Theme this year. On offense, we should have even more weapons now with even more experience. Special Teams should be MUCH better from the PK to all the specialty athletes we have who can provide better coverage. Our PS will be used to develop some real gems as well. I have some surprises in my 53 but many will have speciality roles and can double on ST.

So there!

Originally posted by NCommand:
90 has been updated for quick reference (thanks MB)!

My (way too early) best guess at the 53:

Offense: (25)
QB (3): Colin Kaepernick, Scott Tolzien and B.J. Daniels - think Tolzien is similar to Colt McCoy but much more experienced in our offense. B.J. is the perfect Russell Wilson-clone to practice against and can play ST.
RB (3): Frank Gore, Kendall Hunter and LaMichael James; Marcus Lattimore (PUP) - Anthony Dixon, Jewel Hampton and D.J. Harper are gone. Marcus is red-shirted all year long.
FB (2): Bruce Miller and Alex Debniak - Jason Schepler is gone. Alex is the surprise win here.
WR (5): Michael Crabtree, Anquan Boldin, A.J. Jenkins, Quinton Patton and Ricardo Lockette; Mario Manningham (PUP) - Kyle Williams, Marlon Moore, Chad Hall, Joe Hastings, Chuck Jacobs all gone. Manningham is brought along slowly and Williams is cut d/t Jenkins/Patton and others excelling in the slot and on KR's.
TE (3): Vernon Davis, Vance McDonald and MarQueis Gray (H-back) - Cameron Morrah and Garrett Celek are gone.
OT (4): Joe Staley, Anthony Davis, Adam Snyder and Al Netter; Luke Marquardt (PUP) - Carter Bykowski and Kenny Wiggins are gone. Luke is brought along slowly (typical Niner-theme) but if healthy, could push Netter off the 53.
OG (3): Mike Iupati, Alex Boone and Daniel Kilgore - Wayne Tribue and Patrick Omameh are gone. Boone, Snyder, Kilgore and Looney can all play multiple positions.
C (2): Jonathan Goodwin and Joe Looney - Sherman Carter is gone. I would not be surprised to see Looney beat out Goodwin (late cut) with Kilgore backing him up; or Goodwin restructures to stay (ideal depth).

Defense: (25)
DE (4): Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Quinton Dial and Lawrence Okoye; Tank Carradine (PUP) - Demarcus Dobbs, Will Tukuafu and Tony Jerod-Eddie are gone. Tank is brought along slowly as well. They may keep Dobbs over Divens but we use the NT/DE positions as interchangeable a lot. So who adds more immediate value?
NT (3): Glenn Dorsey, Ian Williams and Lamar Divens (6'3" 340) - Mike Purcell is gone and Divens is used against the power running teams and in goal line and short yardage situations.
OLB (4): Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Corey Lemonier and Cam Johnson - Parys Haralson and Darius Fleming are gone. Cam shows he can seal the edge well AND pass rush making Haralson expendable.
ILB (4): Patrick Willis, NaVorro Bowman, Dan Skuta and Nick Moody - Michael Wilhoite and Nathan Stupar are gone.
CB (5): Tarell Brown, Nnamdi Asomugha, Chris Culliver, Carlos Rogers and Marcus Cooper - Tramaine Brock, Perrish Cox, Lowell Rose and Darryl Morris are gone. Rogers restructures his contract after losing out to Nnamdi and Rose and Morris are stashed on the PS. Baalke wants bigger now...he got it in CB/depth and with Reid.
S (5): Donte Whitner, Eric Reid, Craig Dahl, C.J. Spillman and Trenton Robinson - Darcel McBath and Michael Thomas are gone.

Special Teams: (3)
PK: Phil Dawson
P: Andy Lee - Anthony Santella is gone
LS: Kevin McDermott - Brian Jennings is gone

Weaknesses/Miscellaneous: We still have not solved the SS issue with Whitner starting again (gave up 14 TD's last year alone) and I'm not sure if we have a quality slot CB matchup against specialists such as Harvin/Austin. NT is still a question as well but it appears we'll use more 4-man DL with plenty of rotation for all of the front 7. Scheme is the Theme this year. On offense, we should have even more weapons now with even more experience. Special Teams should be MUCH better from the PK to all the specialty athletes we have who can provide better coverage. Our PS will be used to develop some real gems as well. I have some surprises in my 53 but many will have speciality roles and can double on ST.

This is so far off from what the real 53 man will be I just have to quote it. Wow.

Major issues:
Tolzien and Daniels both make it?
Dixon cut?
2 FB's!?!?!?!?!
Kyle Williams cut?
Gray over Morrah and Celek?
Okoye makes the 53 man?
Dobbs and Tufuaku cut?
Haralson cut?
Brock cut?

I would bet money that more of those predictions don't occur than do occur.

Originally posted by NCommand:
90 has been updated for quick reference (thanks MB)!

My (way too early) best guess at the 53:

Offense: (25)
QB (3): Colin Kaepernick, Scott Tolzien and B.J. Daniels - think Tolzien is similar to Colt McCoy but much more experienced in our offense. B.J. is the perfect Russell Wilson-clone to practice against and can play ST.
RB (3): Frank Gore, Kendall Hunter and LaMichael James; Marcus Lattimore (PUP) - Anthony Dixon, Jewel Hampton and D.J. Harper are gone. Marcus is red-shirted all year long.
FB (2): Bruce Miller and Alex Debniak - Jason Schepler is gone. Alex is the surprise win here.
WR (5): Michael Crabtree, Anquan Boldin, A.J. Jenkins, Quinton Patton and Ricardo Lockette; Mario Manningham (PUP) - Kyle Williams, Marlon Moore, Chad Hall, Joe Hastings, Chuck Jacobs all gone. Manningham is brought along slowly and Williams is cut d/t Jenkins/Patton and others excelling in the slot and on KR's.
TE (3): Vernon Davis, Vance McDonald and MarQueis Gray (H-back) - Cameron Morrah and Garrett Celek are gone.
OT (4): Joe Staley, Anthony Davis, Adam Snyder and Al Netter; Luke Marquardt (PUP) - Carter Bykowski and Kenny Wiggins are gone. Luke is brought along slowly (typical Niner-theme) but if healthy, could push Netter off the 53.
OG (3): Mike Iupati, Alex Boone and Daniel Kilgore - Wayne Tribue and Patrick Omameh are gone. Boone, Snyder, Kilgore and Looney can all play multiple positions.
C (2): Jonathan Goodwin and Joe Looney - Sherman Carter is gone. I would not be surprised to see Looney beat out Goodwin (late cut) with Kilgore backing him up; or Goodwin restructures to stay (ideal depth).

Defense: (25)
DE (4): Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Quinton Dial and Lawrence Okoye; Tank Carradine (PUP) - Demarcus Dobbs, Will Tukuafu and Tony Jerod-Eddie are gone. Tank is brought along slowly as well. They may keep Dobbs over Divens but we use the NT/DE positions as interchangeable a lot. So who adds more immediate value?
NT (3): Glenn Dorsey, Ian Williams and Lamar Divens (6'3" 340) - Mike Purcell is gone and Divens is used against the power running teams and in goal line and short yardage situations.
OLB (4): Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Corey Lemonier and Cam Johnson - Parys Haralson and Darius Fleming are gone. Cam shows he can seal the edge well AND pass rush making Haralson expendable.
ILB (4): Patrick Willis, NaVorro Bowman, Dan Skuta and Nick Moody - Michael Wilhoite and Nathan Stupar are gone.
CB (5): Tarell Brown, Nnamdi Asomugha, Chris Culliver, Carlos Rogers and Marcus Cooper - Tramaine Brock, Perrish Cox, Lowell Rose and Darryl Morris are gone. Rogers restructures his contract after losing out to Nnamdi and Rose and Morris are stashed on the PS. Baalke wants bigger now...he got it in CB/depth and with Reid.
S (5): Donte Whitner, Eric Reid, Craig Dahl, C.J. Spillman and Trenton Robinson - Darcel McBath and Michael Thomas are gone.

Special Teams: (3)
PK: Phil Dawson
P: Andy Lee - Anthony Santella is gone
LS: Kevin McDermott - Brian Jennings is gone

Weaknesses/Miscellaneous: We still have not solved the SS issue with Whitner starting again (gave up 14 TD's last year alone) and I'm not sure if we have a quality slot CB matchup against specialists such as Harvin/Austin. NT is still a question as well but it appears we'll use more 4-man DL with plenty of rotation for all of the front 7. Scheme is the Theme this year. On offense, we should have even more weapons now with even more experience. Special Teams should be MUCH better from the PK to all the specialty athletes we have who can provide better coverage. Our PS will be used to develop some real gems as well. I have some surprises in my 53 but many will have speciality roles and can double on ST.

BJ Daniels will only make the PS IMO, and what with no hope for Celek and Cox, they both played well when given the opportunity.

Originally posted by 9erReign:
This is so far off from what the real 53 man will be I just have to quote it. Wow.

Major issues:
Tolzien and Daniels both make it?
Dixon cut?
2 FB's!?!?!?!?!
Kyle Williams cut?
Gray over Morrah and Celek?
Okoye makes the 53 man?
Dobbs and Tufuaku cut?
Haralson cut?
Brock cut?

I would bet money that more of those predictions don't occur than do occur.

Gotta agree, its pretty far from what I would expect our 53 to be but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Heres my 2 cents on that 53.

I cant see Gray making it to the 53 over Celek or Morrah, but he will almost assuredly be on the PS.
Shepler will beat out Debniak, not only with his blocking ability but he can also play TE, not just FB.
McCoy wont get cut... why trade for a guy just to cut him. Tolz needs a strong camp to send BJ to the PS.
K-Dub is our only punt returner with experience at the moment... Cox got benched for Royal last time he returned punts in Denver.
Haralson wont get cut, we need 4 OLBs period and we have seen nothing from flemming or johnson to think they can even come close to Haralsons level.

One thing is for sure... this is gonna be one hell of a training camp. Tons of potential and everyone has a great competitive attitude.

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:
So there!

LMAO!!! I love it...see comments below (and thanks for your critical review).

"McCoy makes is as 2nd and Tolzien 3rd and BJ Daniels goes to the PS but is of help running scout team drills." - I've thought about this one as well and it's a very likely scenario. The reason I went this way was b/c, at least last year, Harbaugh didn't mess with his QB's. We brought in "his" guy in Johnson and he stuck with Tolzien. This year he has another year of experience and I think B.J. is that QB who can also play ST's as well, where Tolzien/McCoy can't; this "notion" was noted in a recent article but I concede that your scenario may be more likely.

"I believe either Dixon or Hampton will make the roster over a 2nd FB but they may not, depends on their special teams potential." - No way Dixon makes it this year. I did think about Hampton or Harper possibly making it over someone like Alex Debniak but who would be our backup fullback with Tukuafu gone?

"no way we keep a 2nd FB when the 1st string barely has a role" - you do have a good point but it applies more to last year. Miller plays a vital role in our offense and the FB plays, let's be real, haven't been fully installed.

"Kyle Williams is the only proven PR on the roster, like it or not he is a lock to make the team. Mannigham is the 3rd receiver with Jenkins and Patton fighting for some playing time. After coming up short on WR depth the last 2 years we keep extra bodies around." - yeah and I really like Williams a lot. But if Jenkins and Patton develop there is no room for Williams really. With Vance McDonald, we just aren't going to see many 3+ WR sets. Another option would be to keep Wiliams and cut Manningham (but since he restructured, it most likely means Williams would be out).

"Celek makes the roster over the completely inexperienced Gray who is stashed on the PS." - possibly; but not sure if Celek brings much of anything to the table and having an H-back like Gray who can run out of the Q (Pistol) formation is a tool Roman could really use. No need to rush him and bring him along like we did with Walker.

"It will be interesting to see who makes the 4th OT but Marquardt is completely inexperienced and missed all of last year and is still hurt, I doubt he does anything this year." - yeah, Bykowski got the article/exposure today but for some reason, I just have a feeling about our swing tackle being Marquardt. I'm not sure about this one and like you, look forward to seeing how it plays out.

"Carradine will make the roster and make a big contribution. Dobbs and Tukuafu will be hard to keep off the roster but one will make the team." - If Dobbs once again plays well with Aldon, he's a guy right on the edge for me. And if Carradine is healthy, no doubt, he will contribute and contribute right away...slowly and adding more and more throughout the year.

"Not keeping 3 NT's on the roster, Divens will PS material." - your scenario is likely as well esp. if we scheme to more 4 man DL. I "leaned" towards this dark horse b/c we greatly struggled against power running teams, in short yardage and RZ/goal line situations. Maybe he can be that 340 two-gap answer?

"Haralson was the biggest injury loss the team had last year and the 2 Smiths paid the price late in the season and playoffs, he is a huge part ot the rotation. No way Johnson or Fleming knock him off the roster." - unfortunately, Haralson is a one-trick pony and he's coming off a big injury. If either Cam or Fleming demonstrate they can not only seal the edge and play the run well but also provide ANY kind of pass rush, Haralson is gone. We need backups who are well-rounded and who can step in just in case.

"Brock will make the roster, book it. The organization has already professed their faith in him with his contract. Cox has a real chance of making it." - yeah, it might be Brock over Cooper. But Baalke has wanted to go bigger at CB and if Cooper shows tremendous upside while also playing ST's as well as Brock, it's possible Brock is gone. But I lean a bit with you on this one as well. I think Cox is done though.

"Brian Jennings is not gone, he was still making tackles downfield on our pathetic kick coverage last year." - the future is now and like Harbaugh said, he's got the license to do it. But he's going to have to be special. But let's be real. This is Brian Freak'n Jennings we're talking about here! LOL

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
NC, just a question. All the guys brot into camp, all signed contracts(or is that incorrect?), but is it written so that if they don't make the cut, they just get a few bucks and a handshake? Certainly if Shepler, say, signed for 3 mil, is that all non guaranteed, with something like a per diem for practicing with the team? Thx

Also i think Colt makes it over your guess for #3. I believe colt can play like russ Wilson, also.

pasodoc9er - I'm so sorry I don't have the answers for you. Someone like AB or others can probably speak more to them. But I "believe" most are signed to at least 3 year contracts. We only lose on their signing bonus. If they don't make the team, I don't believe there is any dead money or that their salary counts against the cap this year. But I'm not certain.

This is my rationale (if you can call it that) for why I went this direction:

"McCoy makes is as 2nd and Tolzien 3rd and BJ Daniels goes to the PS but is of help running scout team drills." - I've thought about this one as well and it's a very likely scenario. The reason I went this way was b/c, at least last year, Harbaugh didn't mess with his QB's. We brought in "his" guy in Johnson and he stuck with Tolzien. This year he has another year of experience and I think B.J. is that QB who can also play ST's as well, where Tolzien/McCoy can't; this "notion" was noted in a recent article but I concede that your scenario may be more likely.

Originally posted by 9erReign:
This is so far off from what the real 53 man will be I just have to quote it. Wow.

Major issues:
Tolzien and Daniels both make it?
Dixon cut?
2 FB's!?!?!?!?!
Kyle Williams cut?
Gray over Morrah and Celek?
Okoye makes the 53 man?
Dobbs and Tufuaku cut?
Haralson cut?
Brock cut?

I would bet money that more of those predictions don't occur than do occur.

You can see my rationale in post #251 above. But let's review...

Any of you who know me know I tend to think a little outside the box and "big picture" and down-the-road. So you'll see this theme in my first projection.

Tolzien and Daniels both make it? - Tolzien IS our experienced veteran (McCoy); he's just more experienced that McCoy in OUR offense and no pre-season is going to be enough to unseat Tolzien IMHO. THe coaching staff, IMHO, feels very comfortable with Tolzien should CK ever go down. And B.J. is another hand-picked QB by Harbaugh who adds in several other areas as well.
Dixon cut? - Dixon adds next to nothing in production but adds a ton in character and cheerleading/positivity. He's a good ST player. He barely made the team last year and this year he'll be gone.
2 FB's!?!?!?!?! - FB is an under-appreciated position and we've been "lucky" Miller has been healthy. But the coaching staff brought in TWO FB's this year b/c they know they need depth there just in case. With a full off season, I expect Roman will install a few more FB plays (like the long TD Miller had his rookie season). Both need to contribute on ST's though and be able to line up out of the Q. ANd Tukuafu is done here so if Miller does go down, who's his backup for Gore?
Kyle Williams cut? - this one can go any way and about 30 different directions. But I think we end up finding that James and others like AJ or Patton or others show more potential on returning kicks. Both AJ and Patton probably have more upside than Williams (and are healthier), this could be a surprise here. Then the question is, if you DON'T cut him, who do you cut between AJ and Patton? Lockette? Lockette is the most viable like-option behind our bigger WR's in Crabtree and Boldin. Period.
Gray over Morrah and Celek? - Gray has loads of talent and is already being moved all over the place. This dude is becoming the old H-back that Delanie Walker became and will be brought along slowly the same way. With Roman's Q formations, this guys is going to create WAY more mismatches than Morrah/Celek could ever bring...and he can be on the field at the same time VD and McDonald are! And really, what does Morrah/Celek really bring to our offense?
Okoye makes the 53 man? - absolutely! The 47th-53rd position last year was reserved for a truck load of developmental players and many of them were at more technical positions such as RG, C, WR, etc. We're talking about a backup RDE behind Justin Smith and Tank Carradine. He's protected on the 53 and is there for insurance in case Tank needs more time as well. He'll be brought along slowly.
Dobbs and Tufuaku cut? - Dobbs played great with Aldon and if he is fully healthy he could really push a guy off or down the roster but he is going to have to play out of his mind. Tukuafu has no shot at all IMHO.
Haralson cut? - one thing the coaching staff has demonstrated is that they don't like one-dimensional players. In fact, name one currently on the roster. The last one is Haralson. He adds ZERO in pass rush and coverage and should Aldon go down, that is a MONSTER drop off in pass rush. If either Cam or Fleming demonstrate ANY kind of pass rush ability while also being above average in run defense, sealing the edge and show any additional skills in drop-back coverage, Haralson is gone. This team needs an OLB who is well-rounded and can step in for a starter. Also, with Haralson in, it signals he's in there for run defense only...it eliminates the unpredictability of the 3-4.
Brock cut? - this is one I need more time to think about but I've been paying attention to Baalke and his obvious push for bigger, taller, stronger, faster, CB's who can play physical and in press (Cooper). Brock is an excellent ST. He's not a bad DB either. We signed him early for insurance to a LT deal. One option would be to keep both and push someone else off the roster. We probably should keep 6 CB's but then again, I have us carrying 5 S's and C.J. Spillman and Trenton Robinson may be able to play multiple positions.

Originally posted by 5280High:
Gotta agree, its pretty far from what I would expect our 53 to be but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Heres my 2 cents on that 53.

I cant see Gray making it to the 53 over Celek or Morrah, but he will almost assuredly be on the PS.
Shepler will beat out Debniak, not only with his blocking ability but he can also play TE, not just FB.
McCoy wont get cut... why trade for a guy just to cut him. Tolz needs a strong camp to send BJ to the PS.
K-Dub is our only punt returner with experience at the moment... Cox got benched for Royal last time he returned punts in Denver.
Haralson wont get cut, we need 4 OLBs period and we have seen nothing from flemming or johnson to think they can even come close to Haralsons level.

One thing is for sure... this is gonna be one hell of a training camp. Tons of potential and everyone has a great competitive attitude.

Thanks 5280! I agree, this is going to be one interesting pre season and there is going to be some SERIOUS battles and just like ever year, some serious surprise cuts/keeps. There will also be injuries as well. I covered all the points about minus this one: "Shepler will beat out Debniak." You have a valid point on Shepler playing TE as well; while not confirmed yet, I feel that Alex Debniak was specifically brought in to provide pure depth at the FB position with some versatility in there while Shepler was brought in to fill out the 90 and ad additional competition. There are so many camp battles I don't know where to start! LOL

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:

Originally posted by NCommand:
90 has been updated for quick reference (thanks MB)!

My (way too early) best guess at the 53:

Offense: (25)
QB (3): Colin Kaepernick, Scott Tolzien and B.J. Daniels - think Tolzien is similar to Colt McCoy but much more experienced in our offense. B.J. is the perfect Russell Wilson-clone to practice against and can play ST.

-McCoy makes is as 2nd and Tolzien 3rd and BJ Daniels goes to the PS but is of help running scout team drills

RB (3): Frank Gore, Kendall Hunter and LaMichael James; Marcus Lattimore (PUP) - Anthony Dixon, Jewel Hampton and D.J. Harper are gone. Marcus is red-shirted all year long.

-I believe either Dixon or Hampton will make the roster over a 2nd FB but they may not, depends on their special teams potential

FB (2): Bruce Miller and Alex Debniak - Jason Schepler is gone. Alex is the surprise win here.

-no way we keep a 2nd FB when the 1st string barely has a role

WR (5): Michael Crabtree, Anquan Boldin, A.J. Jenkins, Quinton Patton and Ricardo Lockette; Mario Manningham (PUP) - Kyle Williams, Marlon Moore, Chad Hall, Joe Hastings, Chuck Jacobs all gone. Manningham is brought along slowly and Williams is cut d/t Jenkins/Patton and others excelling in the slot and on KR's.

-Kyle Williams is the only proven PR on the roster, like it or not he is a lock to make the team. Mannigham is the 3rd receiver with Jenkins and Patton fighting for some playing time. After coming up short on WR depth the last 2 years we keep extra bodies around.

TE (3): Vernon Davis, Vance McDonald and MarQueis Gray (H-back) - Cameron Morrah and Garrett Celek are gone.

-Celek makes the roster over the completely inexperienced Gray who is stashed on the PS

OT (4): Joe Staley, Anthony Davis, Adam Snyder and Al Netter; Luke Marquardt (PUP) - Carter Bykowski and Kenny Wiggins are gone. Luke is brought along slowly (typical Niner-theme) but if healthy, could push Netter off the 53.

-It will be interesting to see who makes the 4th OT but Marquardt is completely inexperienced and missed all of last year and is still hurt, I doubt he does anything this year.

OG (3): Mike Iupati, Alex Boone and Daniel Kilgore - Wayne Tribue and Patrick Omameh are gone. Boone, Snyder, Kilgore and Looney can all play multiple positions.

-No argument here

C (2): Jonathan Goodwin and Joe Looney - Sherman Carter is gone. I would not be surprised to see Looney beat out Goodwin (late cut) with Kilgore backing him up; or Goodwin restructures to stay (ideal depth).

-This is a lock

Defense: (25)
DE (4): Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Quinton Dial and Lawrence Okoye; Tank Carradine (PUP) - Demarcus Dobbs, Will Tukuafu and Tony Jerod-Eddie are gone. Tank is brought along slowly as well. They may keep Dobbs over Divens but we use the NT/DE positions as interchangeable a lot. So who adds more immediate value?

-Carradine will make the roster and make a big contribution. Dobbs and Tukuafu will be hard to keep off the roster but one will make the team.

NT (3): Glenn Dorsey, Ian Williams and Lamar Divens (6'3" 340) - Mike Purcell is gone and Divens is used against the power running teams and in goal line and short yardage situations.

-Not keeping 3 NT's on the roster, Divens will PS material.

OLB (4): Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Corey Lemonier and Cam Johnson - Parys Haralson and Darius Fleming are gone. Cam shows he can seal the edge well AND pass rush making Haralson expendable.

-Haralson was the biggest injury loss the team had last year and the 2 Smiths paid the price late in the season and playoffs, he is a huge part ot the rotation. No way Johnson or Fleming knock him off the roster.

ILB (4): Patrick Willis, NaVorro Bowman, Dan Skuta and Nick Moody - Michael Wilhoite and Nathan Stupar are gone.

-seems like destiny

CB (5): Tarell Brown, Nnamdi Asomugha, Chris Culliver, Carlos Rogers and Marcus Cooper - Tramaine Brock, Perrish Cox, Lowell Rose and Darryl Morris are gone. Rogers restructures his contract after losing out to Nnamdi and Rose and Morris are stashed on the PS. Baalke wants bigger now...he got it in CB/depth and with Reid.

-Brock will make the roster, book it. The organization has already professed their faith in him with his contract. Cox has a real chance of making it.

S (5): Donte Whitner, Eric Reid, Craig Dahl, C.J. Spillman and Trenton Robinson - Darcel McBath and Michael Thomas are gone.

-

Special Teams: (3)
PK: Phil Dawson
P: Andy Lee - Anthony Santella is gone
LS: Kevin McDermott - Brian Jennings is gone

-Brian Jennings is not gone, he was still making tackles downfield on our pathetic kick coverage last year.

Weaknesses/Miscellaneous: We still have not solved the SS issue with Whitner starting again (gave up 14 TD's last year alone) and I'm not sure if we have a quality slot CB matchup against specialists such as Harvin/Austin. NT is still a question as well but it appears we'll use more 4-man DL with plenty of rotation for all of the front 7. Scheme is the Theme this year. On offense, we should have even more weapons now with even more experience. Special Teams should be MUCH better from the PK to all the specialty athletes we have who can provide better coverage. Our PS will be used to develop some real gems as well. I have some surprises in my 53 but many will have speciality roles and can double on ST.

So there!

As much as I respect NC's viewpoints, I have to give the nod to Chauncey in this thread...

I just think guys like QB Daniels, "TE" Gray, DL Okoye, WR Lockette, OT Netter, NT Divens, and CB Cooper have a much greater chance of landing on the practice squad than making the 53. Also, guys like QB McCoy, WR K Williams, LB Haralson, and even DL Tukuafu / Dobbs are, to put it simply, unlikely to get cut. Now, guys like C Goodwin and CB Rogers? Time will tell with those 2. I can see both of them cut unless they agree to re-work their deals.

The team needs vets in some areas. They got burned in the SB because they didn't have enough pass rushing, D-line, and ST depth and/or experience (just as I predicted in the beginning of last season). I just think NCs roster is a little on the youthful / inexperienced side.