FootballOutsiders: 'Dewey Defeats DVOA!' (Vikings Didn't really outplay 49e

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Is Ponder more athletic? Looked like it.
Did he outplay Smith last week? Yep.
Did Smith stand like a statute? I don't think so.
Is your point clear to me? No. I still don't get it. That's ok.

Not sure where you are getting your assumption:

"...Ponder's own natural running ability allows Minnesota to run a lot of play-action." I sure they run play action to complete the pass within the design of the play over Ponder running around and finding a WR out of his route.

?

im lost too

Monday, the argument was that Ponder's big play ability when the plays broke down both won the game and are superior to Smith's.
Now, the argument is that Ponder's playing within the system - which is designed to his strengths - won the game and (one would assume, given Smith's purported robotic tendencies and inability to play outside of the system) show his superiority to Smith.

I must be misunderstanding or missing something.

Ill buy it but having a "flukey" game in the playoffs would end the season right there.

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Monday, the argument was that Ponder's big play ability when the plays broke down both won the game and are superior to Smith's.
Now, the argument is that Ponder's playing within the system - which is designed to his strengths - won the game and (one would assume, given Smith's purported robotic tendencies and inability to play outside of the system) show his superiority to Smith.

I must be misunderstanding or missing something.

I don't recall anyone talking about Ponder playing within the system.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Monday, the argument was that Ponder's big play ability when the plays broke down both won the game and are superior to Smith's.
Now, the argument is that Ponder's playing within the system - which is designed to his strengths - won the game and (one would assume, given Smith's purported robotic tendencies and inability to play outside of the system) show his superiority to Smith.

I must be misunderstanding or missing something.

I don't recall anyone talking about Ponder playing within the system.

"I sure they run play action to complete the pass within the design of the play. . ."

Your quote.

And from the article that you quoted:

Bill Barnwell called this game a case of the Vikings "out Niner-ing the Niners," and while that rings true to me in some ways, the Vikings also have an offensive philosophy in the passing game that the 49ers are not really built to stop. Call of the Game Minnesota faced fourth-and-goal from the 1 with 7:25 left in the first quarter. Many a head coach would be content to take the three and start the game with a lead, but Leslie Frazier would have none of it. He sent Christian Ponder out, called a play-action bootleg, and despite the fact that Dashon Goldson was barreling down on Ponder, Ponder sent a strike to Kyle Rudolph for seven. "Adrian Peterson's presence and Ponder's own natural running ability allows Minnesota to run a lot of play-action." "Right now, though, the passing portion of this offense is built on finding the first or second read, and putting the ball in Harvin's hands."

This is all about playing within the system and designed play.

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Monday, the argument was that Ponder's big play ability when the plays broke down both won the game and are superior to Smith's.
Now, the argument is that Ponder's playing within the system - which is designed to his strengths - won the game and (one would assume, given Smith's purported robotic tendencies and inability to play outside of the system) show his superiority to Smith.

I must be misunderstanding or missing something.

I don't recall anyone talking about Ponder playing within the system.

"I sure they run play action to complete the pass within the design of the play. . ."

Your quote.

And from the article that you quoted:

Bill Barnwell called this game a case of the Vikings "out Niner-ing the Niners," and while that rings true to me in some ways, the Vikings also have an offensive philosophy in the passing game that the 49ers are not really built to stop. Call of the Game Minnesota faced fourth-and-goal from the 1 with 7:25 left in the first quarter. Many a head coach would be content to take the three and start the game with a lead, but Leslie Frazier would have none of it. He sent Christian Ponder out, called a play-action bootleg, and despite the fact that Dashon Goldson was barreling down on Ponder, Ponder sent a strike to Kyle Rudolph for seven. "Adrian Peterson's presence and Ponder's own natural running ability allows Minnesota to run a lot of play-action." "Right now, though, the passing portion of this offense is built on finding the first or second read, and putting the ball in Harvin's hands."

This is all about playing within the system and designed play.

Still don't get your point. Most of his scrambles were outside the design of the play. That one bootleg was one of very few where the play went as designed.

So from that post, you think I'm saying MIN calls playaction hoping Ponder runs around to find a WR out of route or run for 35 yard TD?

Get over it, they whooped us fair and square

We lost because the Defense slept walked through the first half and the offense couldn't recover in the second half.

They took us out of our game and we did not adjust in time.

How come our defense never can contain the opposing tight ends? This goes back to the Nolan days...

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Is Ponder more athletic? Looked like it.
Did he outplay Smith last week? Yep.
Did Smith stand like a statute? I don't think so.
Is your point clear to me? No. I still don't get it. That's ok.

Clint Eastwood over here...

Originally posted by zomg_its_ryan:

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Is Ponder more athletic? Looked like it.
Did he outplay Smith last week? Yep.
Did Smith stand like a statute? I don't think so.
Is your point clear to me? No. I still don't get it. That's ok.

Clint Eastwood over here...

Originally posted by Joecool:
Still don't get your point. Most of his scrambles were outside the design of the play. That one bootleg was one of very few where the play went as designed.

So from that post, you think I'm saying MIN calls playaction hoping Ponder runs around to find a WR out of route or run for 35 yard TD?

I don't think that we speak the same language. For some reason, I cannot follow your logic a lot of the time. No biggie.

I blame the replacement refs

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
We lost because the Defense slept walked through the first half and the offense couldn't recover in the second half.

They took us out of our game and we did not adjust in time.

Couldn't agree more...and I would add that for the first time in the Harbaugh era, the team was out-coached. Minnesota's game plan was much better and the Vikes executed it nearly flawlessly... I had a bad feeling about this game during the week because Ponder had played very well thus far this year and it seemed his team was playing with some confidence. Also, I think AP's remarkable recovery from his knee injury has inspired that team to some extent.

To put it bluntly, the Niners didn't respect their opponent enough and didn't come out with any intensity at all. I was really disappointed in the teams' effort in this game, especially defensively. Also, it didn't appear that Fangio made any adjustments during the game at all. After the Niners closed to within 17-13 in the second half, the defense allowed the Vikes to go on a long TD drive that switched the momentum back, got the crowd back into the game, and essentially, ended it. If I recall correctly, the Niners didn't blitz once on that drive.

Offensively, the team didn't show any urgency either, even when they were behind by 11 in the fourth quarter. Why not go to a no-huddle? I put that on Harbaugh and Roman frankly. There also seemed to be some confusion about the play calls late in the game too. There is still time to clean all of this up and I know it is hard to maintain strong intensity throughout a long NFL season but this is a game the Niners really should have won....and didn't really come close to winning.

One thing I've learned in my over 40 years of watching the NFL....a team should never, ever assume a road victory....ever.

Cheers!

Originally posted by sdniner:
I blame the replacement refs

Clearly Donte Whitner was still upset and dwelling on that bs personal foul call earlier in the game when the refs didn't announce a player number when he dropped that sure thing pick six.