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Never mind that it was mostly a strategic decision on Walsh to move the ball on Dallas during the game. Freak'n tv commentator 
Originally posted by Legbreaker:
On the contrary...In 1981, Joe Montana was the very DEFINITION of "game manager". For the record, most WCO quarterbacks are called upon to "manage" the game early in their careers. The system allows for growth...but expansion on its concepts takes years.
Joe was the antithesis of "real" quarterbacks like Staubach, Bradshaw and Fouts in the eyes of the experts back then. He threw short, high percentage passes and the 49ers were generally looked down upon because of it...one of the reasons we were looked down upon by EVERYONE in 1981.
The 49er offense was not designed around a vertical attack. Rather, they made up for their lack of a punishing runner by throwing A LOT of short routes designed to compensate for it. They beat you by running a BUNCH of short pass plays. More often than not, Joe had 2 reads. That's it.
Joe's job was simple: take what the defense gives you. In fact...on the penultimate play of the 1981 NFC Championship game, Joe had only 2 reads. Solomon underneath, and Clark over the top. They were stacked, so his progression was very simple.
This is not an attempt to disparage Joe. He was the first incredibly accurate passer in NFL history. That is what made him truly amazing. But early on, he did exactly what Coach told him to. He grew into an amazing player as his career progressed (his true growth occurred from 1982-84...once he got Jerry in 1985, they elevated each other), but he didn't start out that way.
Originally posted by nw9erfan:
Originally posted by Legbreaker:
On the contrary...In 1981, Joe Montana was the very DEFINITION of "game manager". For the record, most WCO quarterbacks are called upon to "manage" the game early in their careers. The system allows for growth...but expansion on its concepts takes years.
Joe was the antithesis of "real" quarterbacks like Staubach, Bradshaw and Fouts in the eyes of the experts back then. He threw short, high percentage passes and the 49ers were generally looked down upon because of it...one of the reasons we were looked down upon by EVERYONE in 1981.
The 49er offense was not designed around a vertical attack. Rather, they made up for their lack of a punishing runner by throwing A LOT of short routes designed to compensate for it. They beat you by running a BUNCH of short pass plays. More often than not, Joe had 2 reads. That's it.
Joe's job was simple: take what the defense gives you. In fact...on the penultimate play of the 1981 NFC Championship game, Joe had only 2 reads. Solomon underneath, and Clark over the top. They were stacked, so his progression was very simple.
This is not an attempt to disparage Joe. He was the first incredibly accurate passer in NFL history. That is what made him truly amazing. But early on, he did exactly what Coach told him to. He grew into an amazing player as his career progressed (his true growth occurred from 1982-84...once he got Jerry in 1985, they elevated each other), but he didn't start out that way.
This is a very insightful and intelligent post, Legbreaker...
Since Alex often has 3 reads or more in a single play, this shows how complex the QB position has become. It sure would be interesting to see how Alex would do in a WCO similar to the one that Joe ran.
Just goes to show that some Zoners are really knowledgeable...
Cheers!
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by nw9erfan:
Originally posted by Legbreaker:
On the contrary...In 1981, Joe Montana was the very DEFINITION of "game manager". For the record, most WCO quarterbacks are called upon to "manage" the game early in their careers. The system allows for growth...but expansion on its concepts takes years.
Joe was the antithesis of "real" quarterbacks like Staubach, Bradshaw and Fouts in the eyes of the experts back then. He threw short, high percentage passes and the 49ers were generally looked down upon because of it...one of the reasons we were looked down upon by EVERYONE in 1981.
The 49er offense was not designed around a vertical attack. Rather, they made up for their lack of a punishing runner by throwing A LOT of short routes designed to compensate for it. They beat you by running a BUNCH of short pass plays. More often than not, Joe had 2 reads. That's it.
Joe's job was simple: take what the defense gives you. In fact...on the penultimate play of the 1981 NFC Championship game, Joe had only 2 reads. Solomon underneath, and Clark over the top. They were stacked, so his progression was very simple.
This is not an attempt to disparage Joe. He was the first incredibly accurate passer in NFL history. That is what made him truly amazing. But early on, he did exactly what Coach told him to. He grew into an amazing player as his career progressed (his true growth occurred from 1982-84...once he got Jerry in 1985, they elevated each other), but he didn't start out that way.
This is a very insightful and intelligent post, Legbreaker...
Since Alex often has 3 reads or more in a single play, this shows how complex the QB position has become. It sure would be interesting to see how Alex would do in a WCO similar to the one that Joe ran.
Just goes to show that some Zoners are really knowledgeable...
Cheers!
Walsh changed the idea of offense. Prior to him, the Coryell vertical game was the theme. The idea was to spread the field VERTICALLY. Walsh added the component of spreading the field horizontally in addition to adding the underneath dimension. It put so much pressure on the defense that something HAD to be open most of the time.
At a time that the game was dominated by the thinking of smash-mouth running and vertical passing, all of which was pretty macho stuff, the idea of "outsmarting" an opponent was just too much for many to accept. Hence, all the bad-mouthing about "5 yard handoffs."
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Billick is a moron. Never liked that guy.
Yes, Smith needs to be efficient and needs to take what the D is giving, but to say he's eventually going to have to pass to win shows he simply doesn't understand what Harbaugh is doing.
The Niners were down by 23 points to Philly and never abandoned their offense. Yeah, they threw the ball, but they never went 4 WRs and abandoned the run game. In fact, they RAN the ball on 3rd and long on the drive where they took the lead.
The advantage this team has right now is that the other team simply has no idea when its run and when its pass. Even a 3 TE set can be a pass. With the TEs on this team, it can even be a LONG pass.
Alex needs to play well, but he doesn't need to be Brady, Manning or Rogers to win. All he needs to do is exactly what he has been doing for 6 weeks. The guy with the most passing yards doesn't always win the game...just ask Dan Marino.
What this team is right now is something they haven't been since Walsh...INNOVATIVE. They are running the ball CREATIVELY. THATS how Walsh won games. Not with brute force, but with a better strategy. THATS how the Niners are winning...by being DIFFERENT.
Originally posted by nw9erfan:But I think the salary cap will make teams in the future one-dimensional.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Billick is a moron. Never liked that guy.
Yes, Smith needs to be efficient and needs to take what the D is giving, but to say he's eventually going to have to pass to win shows he simply doesn't understand what Harbaugh is doing.
The Niners were down by 23 points to Philly and never abandoned their offense. Yeah, they threw the ball, but they never went 4 WRs and abandoned the run game. In fact, they RAN the ball on 3rd and long on the drive where they took the lead.
The advantage this team has right now is that the other team simply has no idea when its run and when its pass. Even a 3 TE set can be a pass. With the TEs on this team, it can even be a LONG pass.
Alex needs to play well, but he doesn't need to be Brady, Manning or Rogers to win. All he needs to do is exactly what he has been doing for 6 weeks. The guy with the most passing yards doesn't always win the game...just ask Dan Marino.
What this team is right now is something they haven't been since Walsh...INNOVATIVE. They are running the ball CREATIVELY. THATS how Walsh won games. Not with brute force, but with a better strategy. THATS how the Niners are winning...by being DIFFERENT.
His point was that in today's NFL, teams can't be one-dimensional. They can't get by with a dominating offense and a mediocre defense...or vice versa. In other words, he was saying that the Niners, despite showing signs of improvement on offense in the past few weeks, need to continue to improve if they want to challenge anyone in the playoffs.
Originally posted by nw9erfan:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Billick is a moron. Never liked that guy.
Yes, Smith needs to be efficient and needs to take what the D is giving, but to say he's eventually going to have to pass to win shows he simply doesn't understand what Harbaugh is doing.
The Niners were down by 23 points to Philly and never abandoned their offense. Yeah, they threw the ball, but they never went 4 WRs and abandoned the run game. In fact, they RAN the ball on 3rd and long on the drive where they took the lead.
The advantage this team has right now is that the other team simply has no idea when its run and when its pass. Even a 3 TE set can be a pass. With the TEs on this team, it can even be a LONG pass.
Alex needs to play well, but he doesn't need to be Brady, Manning or Rogers to win. All he needs to do is exactly what he has been doing for 6 weeks. The guy with the most passing yards doesn't always win the game...just ask Dan Marino.
What this team is right now is something they haven't been since Walsh...INNOVATIVE. They are running the ball CREATIVELY. THATS how Walsh won games. Not with brute force, but with a better strategy. THATS how the Niners are winning...by being DIFFERENT.
Au contraire....
Billick may be a lot of things...obnoxious, arrogant, petty, (use your imagination)...but he is certainly not "a moron".
The man won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer as his QB...a great accomplishment. Also, he is/was a member of the "Walsh family tree" of coaching. I thought if the Niners couldn't get Harbaugh as a HC, Billick would have made a nice second option...
His point was that in today's NFL, teams can't be one-dimensional. They can't get by with a dominating offense and a mediocre defense...or vice versa. In other words, he was saying that the Niners, despite showing signs of improvement on offense in the past few weeks, need to continue to improve if they want to challenge anyone in the playoffs.
Now, is he overlooking the Niners' special teams play, which has been truly special this year? Quite possibly. Pittsburgh, to name one team, has gotten a lot of mileage out of great special teams play. The Ravens under Billick another. In the playoffs, good special teams play can be a real difference maker.
That being said, I'm just saying that I think Billick knows what he is talking about and in purely general terms, I agree with him. The Niners are still not generating a lot of yardage in their passing game and if they are really going to "take the next step", that part of their game needs to improve.
Cheers!