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Originally posted by dwett:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
This...I am beginning to think Smith might be able to be one of the top qbs. He is getting better every time out and has surprised me with how accurate he has become. He is fitting passes into very tight windows with regularity. If the o line gets it together, there are only a couple of teams I worry about, and none I don't think we can hang with.
I am a Smith supporter and still am skeptical of that. Will say this though. I am curious to see how a confident Alex Smith will grow vs one that has been beaten down. Will he start to trust his instincts and show the talents that made him a number 1 pick? After 4 games he has a 97 QB rating so he is progressing to the standard you are talking about.
Originally posted by GoalLineStand:I agree. I'm beginning to think Smith's a QB that needs to be in a good offensive system that he's "coached up" in to be successful. I think that's probably what Urban Meyer meant when Smith came out of college with the "non-functional until he gets it" quote. As we all know, this is only the second year in his career that he's been in that type of environment. At the end of last season I thought it was best for Smith and the 49ers to part ways, but thought it was definitely worthwhile to bring him back for a year with Harbaugh coaching him up. Sometimes I think certain QB's need to be in certain offensive systems to be successful. Remember how poorly Jeff Garcia played in Cleveland? With the exception of the truly great QB's, I don't think it's a "plug and play" position.
As far as his accuracy goes (or inaccuracy), I wonder if it's been a mental or physical issue (or both) with him. I don't think physical inaccuracy can be improved much---you either have it or you don't to a certain extent. But if his inaccuracy issues have been primarily mental issues because of a lack of confidence and the "beatdown" he's received in the past, then I'm curious to see if it improves this year. I know it's a baseball analogy, but even Tim Lincecum has accuracy issues sometimes. I've always been under the impression Smith could be an above average QB with good coaching. Can he become great? Who knows at this point---but certainly not without some great coaching. The first step would be for him to play consistently above average this season. By the end of the year, I'm sure we'll have a better idea of what kind of QB he is and possibly what he could become in the future.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Accuracy can be taught, it is all about throwing mechanics and footwork. Smiths mechanics have been poor and his release point was consistently high, that is why he sails passes sometimes. What blows my mind is how we never had coaches correct it, or maybe they never saw it. The Lincecum analogy works as pitching is about throwing mechanics too. I agree Smith has a way to go to be a top qb, but it looks to me that he finally has the mentor he needs to help him get there. If he remains in the top ten rated qbs, I think that qualifies.
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
will read if others read
Originally posted by ninerfan29:
Didnt. Read.
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by GoalLineStand:
I agree. I'm beginning to think Smith's a QB that needs to be in a good offensive system that he's "coached up" in to be successful. I think that's probably what Urban Meyer meant when Smith came out of college with the "non-functional until he gets it" quote. As we all know, this is only the second year in his career that he's been in that type of environment. At the end of last season I thought it was best for Smith and the 49ers to part ways, but thought it was definitely worthwhile to bring him back for a year with Harbaugh coaching him up. Sometimes I think certain QB's need to be in certain offensive systems to be successful. Remember how poorly Jeff Garcia played in Cleveland? With the exception of the truly great QB's, I don't think it's a "plug and play" position.
As far as his accuracy goes (or inaccuracy), I wonder if it's been a mental or physical issue (or both) with him. I don't think physical inaccuracy can be improved much---you either have it or you don't to a certain extent. But if his inaccuracy issues have been primarily mental issues because of a lack of confidence and the "beatdown" he's received in the past, then I'm curious to see if it improves this year. I know it's a baseball analogy, but even Tim Lincecum has accuracy issues sometimes. I've always been under the impression Smith could be an above average QB with good coaching. Can he become great? Who knows at this point---but certainly not without some great coaching. The first step would be for him to play consistently above average this season. By the end of the year, I'm sure we'll have a better idea of what kind of QB he is and possibly what he could become in the future.
Originally posted by DrGonzo00:
So just ot give some background....been a niners fan ever since i started watching football, grew up watching the early-mid 90s Steve Young led Niner teams and have followed intently throughout. Unfortunately, this team lost a decade of football with the Erickson-Nolan-Singletary BS regimes. I think we all knew they were b******t deep down but wanted to believe we were trending towards the defensive dominated teams that were en vogue the last few years. BUT - We're the niners. We're supposed to be running the WCO, supposed to be dominating offensively and driving the opposing defense nuts, and all the while still playing stout defense.
While i was happy to see the WCO offense return where it rightfully belongs, i wasn't convinced about Harbaugh or ready to anoint him Bill Walsh Jr. when he got hired, the way others did. I don't know that i'm convinced just yet, but I do like what I'm seeing. He's building a team with great rapport, there's no doubt we're playing 100mph from snap to whistle on defense and really getting after it, swarming to the ball the way Nolan and Singletary were supposed to have us playing. And on top of all that, this past week I actually felt like i was seeing some legit WCO. The 2nd half was damn near bliss. There was timing, rhythm, we were keeping the defense off balance and guessing. It was a beautiful thing to watch.
So....credit where credit is due. Harbaugh still has a lot of work to do, but this team is starting to click and react rather than think. Not having the the full training camp hurt us a lot because everything and everyone were so new to each other. We weren't the Jets-Pats-Steelers-Packers-Giants who have had the same roster and playbooks for the past 3-4-5 years. So it only makes sense that it's taken a little over a month to start to see things come together. And we should only continue to improve and start to get "it" as the season progresses. People complained about the vanilla playcalling but in reality, I just don't think our players were ready for extended, in-depth playcalling because they were still digesting the playbook. Now it seems like they're getting more and more comfortable. The biggest takeaway is that we've won the tough, close games that we normally would lose the past few years. We could easily be 4-0 and it wouldn't be an aberration.
With regards to the roster...our offensive line still needs some work. Those guys are starting to get it, but Rachal needs to go for sure. We need more depth. Goodwin is coming along fine which I'm pleased with cuz you need a solid veteran center like him. Our OLine will be our achilles heel this season I think.
As solid, if unspectacular, as Alex Smith has been, we still need a legit WCO QB. I actually really like and respect Alex, but he was never a true football player/quarterback. He's a guy who plays football and plays QB, but isn't one...if that makes sense. I just don't think he's ever had a real feel for the game the way the naturals do. Even so, he isn't losing us games and is actually starting to win some for us.
Gore is still the man but I'm just ecstatic about Hunter. Not sure if he's an everydown back, but he's the change of pace RB we've been looking for the past decade. While Nolan and Sings wanted smashmouth, big, bruising backs, Hunter has proven to be the small/shifty RB that can break a play open. Kudos to the new regime for drafting him and recognizing the football player there, rather than dismissing him because of his size/measurements/combine stats.
I still like the idea of Anthony Dixon, but it seems he's fallen out of favor with the coaching staff. His biggest problem IMO is that he doesn't run big. He wants to run like Hunter but can't, and i'm sure that drives the coaches nuts.
So long as our QB is getting good protection, our WRs will run their routes and get open. Crabs, Morgan...wish Braylon were out there. Vernon Davis...the WCO is a TE's best friend. Love seeing him cross over the middle, run the fade...he's key to what we do and we can't throw to him enough.
Defensively, we still need to shake out the roster. Whereas Ricky Jean-Francois was a starter in the past, you're seeing he's not worthy of getting any PT. And obviously we miss Abruayo Franklin, another Ravens reject who was overrated by the previous regime and some fans. Sop is just fine as NT though i prefer to find someone better suited in the offseason. He's holding it down though. Justin Smith is and always has been money well spent, McD has stepped up bigtime on DE. Aldon Smith looks to be the truth and a serious problem when rushing the passer, our LBs are the best in the business. Bowman's been a ridiculous surprise.
I think the 2 most underrated acquisitions for us are Carlos Rogers and David Akers. Rogers is a legit cover corner, the kind we convinced ourselves Nate Clements was, and while he got knocked for bad hands and not getting INTs, i'd rather have a guy get his hands on the ball and drop it then get beat altogether. RCB is still a bit shaky, but Tarell Brown and Spencer are holding it down. And David Akers was a KEY acquisition and a great chess move. The front office, knowing our team was a bit younger and definitely unproven, grabbed a veteran kicker who could put points on the board and win us some close games. Mission accomplished.
I like where we're headed for sure. The true test is always when adversity hits. Do we stumble and lose a few we should win? Do we start thinking we're than we are and get knocked back down to earth. Do we start the season on fire and then fade in December? Questions to be answered....
Originally posted by BMoore56:
Originally posted by DrGonzo00:
So just ot give some background....been a niners fan ever since i started watching football, grew up watching the early-mid 90s Steve Young led Niner teams and have followed intently throughout. Unfortunately, this team lost a decade of football with the Erickson-Nolan-Singletary BS regimes. I think we all knew they were b******t deep down but wanted to believe we were trending towards the defensive dominated teams that were en vogue the last few years. BUT - We're the niners. We're supposed to be running the WCO, supposed to be dominating offensively and driving the opposing defense nuts, and all the while still playing stout defense.
While i was happy to see the WCO offense return where it rightfully belongs, i wasn't convinced about Harbaugh or ready to anoint him Bill Walsh Jr. when he got hired, the way others did. I don't know that i'm convinced just yet, but I do like what I'm seeing. He's building a team with great rapport, there's no doubt we're playing 100mph from snap to whistle on defense and really getting after it, swarming to the ball the way Nolan and Singletary were supposed to have us playing. And on top of all that, this past week I actually felt like i was seeing some legit WCO. The 2nd half was damn near bliss. There was timing, rhythm, we were keeping the defense off balance and guessing. It was a beautiful thing to watch.
So....credit where credit is due. Harbaugh still has a lot of work to do, but this team is starting to click and react rather than think. Not having the the full training camp hurt us a lot because everything and everyone were so new to each other. We weren't the Jets-Pats-Steelers-Packers-Giants who have had the same roster and playbooks for the past 3-4-5 years. So it only makes sense that it's taken a little over a month to start to see things come together. And we should only continue to improve and start to get "it" as the season progresses. People complained about the vanilla playcalling but in reality, I just don't think our players were ready for extended, in-depth playcalling because they were still digesting the playbook. Now it seems like they're getting more and more comfortable. The biggest takeaway is that we've won the tough, close games that we normally would lose the past few years. We could easily be 4-0 and it wouldn't be an aberration.
With regards to the roster...our offensive line still needs some work. Those guys are starting to get it, but Rachal needs to go for sure. We need more depth. Goodwin is coming along fine which I'm pleased with cuz you need a solid veteran center like him. Our OLine will be our achilles heel this season I think.
As solid, if unspectacular, as Alex Smith has been, we still need a legit WCO QB. I actually really like and respect Alex, but he was never a true football player/quarterback. He's a guy who plays football and plays QB, but isn't one...if that makes sense. I just don't think he's ever had a real feel for the game the way the naturals do. Even so, he isn't losing us games and is actually starting to win some for us.
Gore is still the man but I'm just ecstatic about Hunter. Not sure if he's an everydown back, but he's the change of pace RB we've been looking for the past decade. While Nolan and Sings wanted smashmouth, big, bruising backs, Hunter has proven to be the small/shifty RB that can break a play open. Kudos to the new regime for drafting him and recognizing the football player there, rather than dismissing him because of his size/measurements/combine stats.
I still like the idea of Anthony Dixon, but it seems he's fallen out of favor with the coaching staff. His biggest problem IMO is that he doesn't run big. He wants to run like Hunter but can't, and i'm sure that drives the coaches nuts.
So long as our QB is getting good protection, our WRs will run their routes and get open. Crabs, Morgan...wish Braylon were out there. Vernon Davis...the WCO is a TE's best friend. Love seeing him cross over the middle, run the fade...he's key to what we do and we can't throw to him enough.
Defensively, we still need to shake out the roster. Whereas Ricky Jean-Francois was a starter in the past, you're seeing he's not worthy of getting any PT. And obviously we miss Abruayo Franklin, another Ravens reject who was overrated by the previous regime and some fans. Sop is just fine as NT though i prefer to find someone better suited in the offseason. He's holding it down though. Justin Smith is and always has been money well spent, McD has stepped up bigtime on DE. Aldon Smith looks to be the truth and a serious problem when rushing the passer, our LBs are the best in the business. Bowman's been a ridiculous surprise.
I think the 2 most underrated acquisitions for us are Carlos Rogers and David Akers. Rogers is a legit cover corner, the kind we convinced ourselves Nate Clements was, and while he got knocked for bad hands and not getting INTs, i'd rather have a guy get his hands on the ball and drop it then get beat altogether. RCB is still a bit shaky, but Tarell Brown and Spencer are holding it down. And David Akers was a KEY acquisition and a great chess move. The front office, knowing our team was a bit younger and definitely unproven, grabbed a veteran kicker who could put points on the board and win us some close games. Mission accomplished.
I like where we're headed for sure. The true test is always when adversity hits. Do we stumble and lose a few we should win? Do we start thinking we're than we are and get knocked back down to earth. Do we start the season on fire and then fade in December? Questions to be answered....
SMH at this, we are a top 5 ranked run defense. Soap is playing lights out. You have alot of points but i disagree with this
Originally posted by DrGonzo00:I won't go so far as to say Smith can become one of the top QBs. Yes, he's getting better but I just don't think he has "it" where he can win games for us, make that special play or will a team to victory. Solid QB? Yea, i think it's possible given his work ethic, high IQ, and the coaching he's getting/will be getting. But again, it's just a feel thing...making something out of nothing...thats what separates the greats from the rest. But then again, he may not even have to be great. He just has to be good and not lose us games.
We know he's got a very good arm, and with the WCO, he can sit back and fire away on the 10-15 yd passes and get into that rhythm.
Originally posted by ObePwnD:That was a great analogy! couldn't agree more. Its to bad for Alex he couldn't have gotten a teacher like Harbaugh in here sooner
I have to disagree with what you said about physical inaccuracy. Smith's accuracy problems started with with his footwork mechanics, that's why Harbaugh drop back drilled them to death this summer Also his actual throwing mechanics is different also. His technic improved, along with the new found knowledge that Harbaugh knew WTF he was doing, brought about his confidence.
When I started playing golf a few years ago, a friend of mine, who is a very good golfer, taught me the basics. Well I had this wicked slice that he could not figure how to fix. He kept saying, "Man, your swing looks good. I'm not sure what you're doing wrong". Well I happen to live in the golf capital of the world, so I decided to take swing lessons from one of the hundreds of pro instructors in the Coachella Valley. What she was able to see and fix in just 20-mins was amazing. The whole mechanics of my swing was wrong, my initial weight distribution, swing sequence, weight transfer, and follow through, you name it. (By the way these same elements are involved in throwing a football also) It was ALL wrong. My buddy, even though he was good at playing golf, didn't have a clue as to what he was looking at - he was not a teacher. He didn't know bad mechanics when he saw it. Sound familiar?
Our past coaching staff represents my friend the golfer, who could not fix mechanics or knew wtf they where looking at.
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Thank you for a thoughtful and interesting post.
I concur with most of what you said. I agree with your QB assessment. In fact, I still disagree with the decision to bring him back. This regime, I felt, needed to build a whole new attitude which is more difficult to do with one of the major reasons for past failure returning. My preference (voiced much earlier) would have been to make a strong play for Hasselback ( I believe that he would have come, judging from remarks Steve Young made, and the fact that he has family in the Bay Area, if only Harbaugh wasn't singing the praises of the current guy - completely unnecessarily). With Hasselback, I believe that this team would go deep in the playoffs, which I don't believe possible with AS.
While, like you, I am buoyed by the team's current success (achieved off the back of it's excellent defensive play), it could still go all wrong and the next couple of weeks will be critical in determining this. If the team plays well, even if they lose, it will still be OK. But if they show the old propensity for playing poorly at critical times, it will revert back to the same ole - same ole. Alex is capable of managing a game. But, as you point out, he is not an instinctive player. And certainly not inspirational. Which is sometimes needed in moments of adversity. And is IMO an essential component of a franchise QB.
That said, his mistake free second-half play was central to the Niners' comeback win over the Eagles and he did do it against Seattle five years ago. I just don't believe it's a trend. But time will tell.
On the defensive side: The team made excellent moves in the off season. Both in draft and FA. Unlike some, I was really stoked by the Smith and Culliver picks. Smith, not surprisingly, is already showing good returns. However, with proper coaching and mentoring, I believe Culliver will also prove a better-than-average pick up. I strongly agreed with the Lawson, Franklin (partly for money considerations), and Clements (obviously) releases. And did not believe that Spikes was much of a loss. Pleasantly surprised by how much better Bowman has played than expected, though.
Don't believe Franklin is missed
.
Your post was good reading though!