What can we do about the O-line?

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by dmax:

Originally posted by unst4bl3:
Did the ref really say that? thats awesome

Yes really...my face was like

I was like

wasnt a very happy time

Iupati and Davis have been the best players on this line so far this year, or should I say the least sucky. But on a serious note, Davis has really shown improvement this year. The main pressure is coming mainly from Rachal/Goodwin, and also Staley.

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Iupati and Davis have been the best players on this line so far this year, or should I say the least sucky. But on a serious note, Davis has really shown improvement this year. The main pressure is coming mainly from Rachal/Goodwin, and also Staley.

Couple of things I noticed from Sunday is that Davis is doing a better job of pushing speed rushers past the QB and Smith is doing a better job stepping up and avoiding the rush from the right side. The left side, blind side, is still a problem and the middle hasn't been strong enough yet. Were these improvements due to the Bengals being far inferior to the Cowboys? Probably, but it gives some hope.

Unfortunately, the Eagles are just behind Dallas in sacks this year, 12 to 13. SF has 7. Seattle is the only opponent to have fewer sacks than SF so far this year. Smith might have to run for his life again this coming weekend. Both Arizona and St L have more sacks.

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by dmax:

Originally posted by unst4bl3:
Did the ref really say that? thats awesome

Yes really...my face was like

I was like

I cried a little when I heard that.

...On the inside.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Iupati and Davis have been the best players on this line so far this year, or should I say the least sucky. But on a serious note, Davis has really shown improvement this year. The main pressure is coming mainly from Rachal/Goodwin, and also Staley.

Couple of things I noticed from Sunday is that Davis is doing a better job of pushing speed rushers past the QB and Smith is doing a better job stepping up and avoiding the rush from the right side. The left side, blind side, is still a problem and the middle hasn't been strong enough yet. Were these improvements due to the Bengals being far inferior to the Cowboys? Probably, but it gives some hope.

Unfortunately, the Eagles are just behind Dallas in sacks this year, 12 to 13. SF has 7. Seattle is the only opponent to have fewer sacks than SF so far this year. Smith might have to run for his life again this coming weekend. Both Arizona and St L have more sacks.

Ratliff did a good job of collapsing the pocket in front of Smith. Bengals not so much. Conclusion: The Bungles are not so good. The OL still needs help.

Things looked much better after Snyder took over from Rachal. It appear Rachal was such a disaster that his lack of performance was adversely affecting Davis and Goodwin. After Snyder came in, Davis appeared to play more effectively though Goodwin never did get much push on running plays. Goodwin MUST improve if the line is to allow Gore to run and Smith to have time to pass. If he doesn't, then putting Snyder at center and Kilgore at RG is the only option. There are potential problems with that but could the problems be worse than the current situation?

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Iupati and Davis have been the best players on this line so far this year, or should I say the least sucky. But on a serious note, Davis has really shown improvement this year. The main pressure is coming mainly from Rachal/Goodwin, and also Staley.

1. PA to FB...
*no real issues, inconsequential missed low block from Gore

2. sacked on pass in 3 seconds
* AD let man get inside quickly... same for Rachal, at greater cost.
* Alex was smart not to throw 1st read slant at top... doubled. (holding flag on Rachal declined)

3. inc. short pass
*missed block by Gore forces Alex to stay on his 1st underneath read or eat it

4. failed screen pass, 3 seconds tops
*AD with slow lateral steps lets DE get around outside edge... very poor initial blocks from Goodwin and Staley here.
*Gore never bothers to turn around for the screen... just kept blocking.
_______________________________________________________________________________

1. Gore up gut for 5 yds
*decent run blocks from everyone this time around

2. quick out pass for 5 yds
*so quick, no issues

3. 20 yarder to VD on wheel route
*3 seconds, slid pass pro by all

4. short pass to Hunter
*protection was good... no other options really looked open, but Alex never really took the time to look. He immediately looked right and then fired left as soon as he saw Hunter open. Really don't know if Alex is being instructed to throw to his first read if open regardless of the time he has of pass pro... or if that's just Alex's thing. We're just not getting much YAC.

5. minimal run gain Gore
* Gore did the right things... just poor run blocking from all
* False start makes 3rd and 5 into 3rd and 10, thanks Staley

6. inc to Crabtree over middle
* all blocks hold up except for Rachal's, who gets beaten badly inside. Alex uses pocket evasion well, but throws a poor, clumsy, low skip pass inc. as he is stepping forward... boo, Alex.

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[b]end of 1st[/b]

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[u]part II / 2ND quarter[/u]

1. inc. wheel route to VD
*very sloppy route... brick hands drop.
*3 second throw, pass pro just held, but goodwin was losing it quickly

2. short pass over middle to VD
*3 second pass... protection held enough... might have like to see Alex wait for a deeper route, but Staley wasn't far from giving up a sack.

3. inc. short sideline pass
*Staley got pushed back into Alex just after the throw... pass was just too high and uncatchable
_______________________________________________________________________

1. Gore loses 3 here on the 1st down run
*no one blocked well, but Rachal totally failed on his pull block... VD made a minimal effort to put hands on the RDE, then went 2nd level... lazy.

2. fake shotgun draw and QB run..
*dangerous... AD didn't keep the LDE occupied long enough and Morgan failed on his block to Clements... ouch... wicked hit that easily coulda been called. ( holding on Rachal anyway )

3. Gore with good outside run gain
*nice pull blocks Goodwin and Staley... decent Iupati and Walker blocks also

4. out route complete to Crabs
*3 second pass on the money to beat the blitz... Iupati and esp. Goodwin were about to fail, but held up enough

5. no gain Gore up RG
*zero push on blocks, starting with Goodwin

6. inc. short pass to Crabs
* Alex put down after a 3 step drop... Goodwin was immediately backed up into Alex, and AD blocked in where they showed blitz... allowing free rush from LDE. Pitiful when your QB is on his butt after a 3 step drop and quick curl pass. Pass was low, but Crabs should have scooped it.

*Goodwin hurt... no loss there.
*false start AD... 3rd and 14 now

7. sacked
*Alex had about 3.2 seconds... the RDT stunted around the weak-side, and Iupati got caught up in the traffic of Staley and his RDE in battle. Rachal got shoved back into Alex's right side, so there was no escape. Alex had the smallest chance to squeeze a dump pass to Gore, so it's debatable whether he should even have attempted it. I say no, because I don't see the risk worth it. Gore was unlikely to move the chains with enough YAC.
_________________________________________________________________________

1. shotgun draw, Gore runs for 5 yds
*good blocks from Goodwin, Rachal, and AD... VD prematurely and unnecessarily helps AD and leaves a free ILB to take out Gore. If VD goes straight to blocking the ILB, then Gore may get a lil more....

2. Gore stuffed going weak-side
AD gets schooled by the LDE crashing in... embarrassing. none of the blocking was impressive anyway over there

3. short pass complete to VD
*Staley getting in real trouble here, but Alex gets quick 3 second drag route pass to VD for the first. good job Gore to keep blitz LB away

*another penalty... not going back to hear who it's on

4. inc. short pass
*pass pro git a bit scary from Rachal and AD on the right... Staley really having trouble on the left... checkdown thrown low and skipped to Walker... 3 second throw... I didn't see any desirable options to throw to... maybe Morgan on a lil curl route for a marginal gain.

5. decent gain Gore on a draw
*hard-fought blocks from interior OL

6. completion to Hunter for the 1st
*another 3 second throw... 4 DL rush.... Hunter by himself and fights for the few extra yards needed. AD getting beat around edge... Rachal losing ground quickly on LDT, but all did just enough.

7. completed out to Crabtree for 8 yds
*3 seconds... good pass, but a bit high, nice catch... pass pro held up enough for this 3 step drop

8. inc. to Morgan
*incredibly lazy catch attempt by Morgan on a hitch route. Pass pro was okay for this 3 second pass

9. Gore stuffed on shotgun draw
*miserable run blocks from VD, Staley, Iu... ugh.... everyone!
_______________________________________________________________________

[b]end of half[/b]
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[u]part III / 3rd quarter[/u]

1. completed pass to FB... 8 yds
*all blocked well enough, but Snyder at RG was pathetically walked straight back into QB by the LDT... 3 second pass

2. 1 yd gain u gut Gore...
*simply put, lousy run blocks up front.. no push.

3. 1 yd run up LG Gore...
*Sopoaga at FB... didn't do much, actually just ran up and gave Iupati a bear hug from the back while he tried to help push the pile, lolz... Staley did enough to keep RE turned, same for Iupati on RDT. Away from play, AD was driving out the DL nicely.

4. bootleg pass play complete to Walker for 9 yds
*the 4 DL were spread wide... not good for this... VD misses block on LDE, lets him get inside and to Alex immediately. Alex nicely evades the tackle and throws a nice one. (Staley let the RDE get around him away from play, and not deliberately)

5. FB minimal run up weak-side
*barely acceptable blocks from Iupati and Walker get this much needed yard before fumble recovered by SF

6. loss of a yard run Gore..
*DL seems to know and crashes hard left... Staley and Iupati too slow to stop their DL... Goodwin fails as well... Snyder and AD did their job

7. quickly sacked
*almost well-timed heavy blitz, but #92 was just offsides. (Lawson has Alex in a big old bear-hug)

8. short loss on outside run Gore
*this essentially fails thanks to excellent speed pursuit from the D. Iupati couldn't pull block that quickly, and Walker was a huge fail in letting the DE disengage

9. dropped pass from Crabtree to force punt
*OL held up enough... 3 second pass over middle... Crabtree just flat out dropped an easy one here
______________________________________________________________________________

1. PA short pass complete to Crabtree
*tight formation PA, pretty slick... gets the D to bite a little... all did their part well

2. deep pass sideline complete to VD
*Lots of fail on interior OL. Iupati loses his DL to a spin (one DL who hits QB)... Goodwin got backed straight into QB (and let his man then hit QB as well!!!) ... Rachal lets his man slip off from a rip move inside (Rachal should have been flagged here)...

[b][u]THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT!!! This play took 3 seconds of protection to make happen... and it did.[/u] [/b]

3. sacked in 2.9 seconds
*Not gonna get a lot of time in the redzone, Alex.. but man... Staley got beaten badly inside, just had no power to keep the RDE away from QB. Alex's first read was up top to the WR, but it was smart not to take that shot... and there was no time for another read.

4. misdirection fake toss throw to Crabtree inc.
*yes, this is the BS penalty about "illegal touch"... Alex shows great trust in Crabtree and Crabtree responded... BUT... the refs screwed us again. [u]This was the first pass play I can recall where Alex has more than 3.5 seconds to read the field.[/u]
*there also was an obvious penalty against Cincy when the defender in plain view knocks Walker off his feet. Walker was an eligible receiving option there and was smashed to the ground... pretty sure ya can't do that. :roll:

5. short pass to FB complete
*barely 3 seconds to pass here... Iupati getting beaten by a stunt inside... Staley and AD both giving up the edges rapidly...

*late hit on FB
then
*[i]"false start... offense... the entire offensive line"[/i] LOL !!!!

6. good run up gut by Hunter for 4 yds
*THIS time, we get good blocks. Snyder and Goodwin turn their DL to open the hole and FB lead blocks ILB well... fast converging D though

7. PA short pass complete to FB
*there's time, but nothing open... Alex was wise to get the ball to the open FB and try to get something from the play

8. QB run, not enough yds
*OL gave time and a clean pocket... if Alex turns left to see Crabtree running an IN, it's a TD... he doesn't turn to look left as he begins to run. That was the only worthwhile shot, but he never looked left in that second or two of decision-making. :(
___________________________________________________________________

1. Gore for no gain...
*Gore makes a good cut (as there was nothing behind OC/LG, but Snyder was getting outmuscled by DT and let him disengage for tackle.
*IF Gore would have cut that run to the far right outside? Maybe big yards.... but VD did miss block on the DB, so maybe not.

2. sacked in 3.1 seconds
*Gore lazily misses block on blitz DB... Miller whizzed down his leg on blocking the blitz LB anyway, so QB was just screwed no matter what (took a big hit thanks to Miller's LB too)
___________________________________________________________________________

Alex walks off the field... clearly pissed off at his protection.

[b]end of 3rd[/b]

part IV / 4th quarter

1. 3rd and 18 - complete to VD for
*Staley a bit scary there, but pass pro holds for the 3 second pass. Alex should have looked deeper to Morgan at the top... maybe... but played it safe for field position. No guarantees on that deeper route.
_________________________________________________________________________

1. Gore up the gut for 4 yds
*another good job by Goodwin and Snyder to turn their DTs enough to open a rush lane, and Miller lead blocks into the ILB well. [u]BUT... Gore fumbles and we lose possession.[/u]
_________________________________________________________________________

1. completion to Morgan for 12 yds
*3 seconds, good read and throw. Pass pro was good, except that Staley was about to give up the inside to his QB had the QB needed to look elsewhere.

2. pitch-out run to Hunter for 10 yds
*AD pulls but slips down... Goodwin pulls but is too far inside to matter... key blocks from Walker on the LE, Miller on a DB outside and Morgan getting enough on a LB inside.

3. quick pass to VD for 8 yds
*2 second pass and it had to be. quick penetration from double ILB blitz... VD just steps out to cut some RAC yds

4. toss to Hunter for a few yds
*key blocks from pulling Goodwin, as well as Walker... AD didn't get much from the crashing DL, and Staley moved on instead of keeping the tackler on the ground

5. PA pass short inc off of Gore's face
*slick looking play, quick pass, as pressure came quickly from LE that Gore should have chucked... Iupati quickly was over there to help QB even get the pass off.. clunked off of Gore's face-mask.

6. completed throw to VD on the 10 yd out
*nice critical block from Hunter to get a piece of outside rusher.. 3 sec throw... everyone else did enough.

7. 4 yds for the short 1st down from Gore
*VD with a decent twist block to help... Sopo at Fb tosses the lil DB away, lolz... unimpressive blocks overall

8. PA pass completed to VD across other side of field
*slick PA... Iupati makes this uglier for QB by missing block on outside DB, but the pass is perfect

9. Gore for no gain up LG/LT
Miller cleared the outside defender, but all else was lousy blocking here...

10. TD run outside for Hunter!
*all efficient blocks from Miller, Staley, VD, and Walker to spring the outside run
________________________________________________________________________________

1. run left shut down loss of 1
*VD and AD do their jobs away from play... Snyder squeezes 2nd level too late to help... Iupati does well... Staley lets defender disengage... Goodwin lets DT get inside right to RB... Manny crashes in but Miller gets just enough of a shot on him to help... TOO many fails for 1 play to be productive

2. pitch-out strong-side Hunter no gain
*Key fail = Staley letting the DE go to block 2nd level... that DE gets Hunter on the cut-back. Staley holds that block, and Hunter could be long gone far weak-side. D was looking run stuff all the way.

3. end-around run for VD loses yds
*terrible time to call this play... too risky for the situation. Defense just swarmed... no glaring screw-ups that would have mattered. Staley's just not finishing his blocks though... looks lazy.
______________________________________________________________________________

1. Gore for nothing
*RE shoves Staley away to make the easy tackle

2. Hunter for minimal gain
*no real push to speak of... D just knows it's coming and converges quickly

3. Hunter goes nowhere behind LT...
*no real push to speak of... D just knows it's coming and converges quickly

END GAME -

What can be done? Well, either backups can come in to replace those you are sucking. However, they are backups for a reason so I'm not sure if that does much good. OR the guys playing start improving. The online needs to step it up. What are the coaches doing? It's their job to fix the problems and there are a bunch. I'm hoping that they will improve next week. We will see.

Originally posted by taney71:
What can be done? Well, either backups can come in to replace those you are sucking. However, they are backups for a reason so I'm not sure if that does much good. OR the guys playing start improving. The online needs to step it up. What are the coaches doing? It's their job to fix the problems and there are a bunch. I'm hoping that they will improve next week. We will see.

I would be preparing to make changes. Evaluate Kilgore's progress closely. If he is perceived as an upgrade to Rachal? Make that move at RG. That frees up Snyder, who I would start taking more practice snaps at OC. That will let Goodwin know he is on a very short leash. Also have Boone taking lots of snaps in practice at LT.... let Staley know he is also on a very short leash. Not only am I seeing guys get overpowered... I am seeing lethargic efforts out there. Let them see you are about to take their jobs away, and are serious about it.

I'm at a loss as to what's going on with our O-line.

High round draft choices and an FA from an SB winning team shouldn't suck this bad- collectively.

We can't possibly have the perfect storm of bad scouting/ drafting and coaching for 5 plus years.

As for one change, I'd say put in Kilgore for Rachal. The young dude impressed me with his knack for mobile blocking during the preseason. That's more about his smarts than the level of competition.

From Matt Barrows, only 3 sacks were on the OL. It appears our RB/FB were also having trouble with their assignments.

1st quarter

8:03 1st & 10, SF 30 - The Bengals line up six defenders along the line. Five of them rush the passer, but one of the linebackers, Thomas Howard, trails Frank Gore out of the backfield. That's where Alex Smith wants to throw but can't. Meanwhile, defensive tackle Jonathan Fanene beats right guard Chilo Rachal to Rachal's inside. Rachal holds Fanene - he's penalized for it - but to no avail. Fanene crashes into Smith for a five-yard loss.

2nd quarter

7:41 3rd & 14, SF 21 -- After an Anthony Davis false start, the 49ers are facing third and 14. The team has been terrible at converting long third downs this season, and this is another example. The Bengals rush four. Fanene is initially blocked by center Adam Snyder and left guard Mike Iupati. But when he loops around to the outside, there is no one there to pick him up. Gore pops out into the flat for a pass and Snyder seems to yell something to Gore after the play. Smith holds the ball about four seconds before being sacked for an eight-yard loss.

3rd quarter

11:10 2nd & 11, SF 42 -- The 49ers are totally confused and overmatched on this play. The Bengals line eight defenders, including safety Reggie Nelson, along the line of scrimmage. Six of them rush with two linemen dropping into coverage. Three Bengals quickly converge on Smith: Nelson, linebacker Howard and linebacker Manny Lawson. Howard lines up on the right side of the 49ers offensive line. Anthony Davis seems confused about who he should block, and Howard goes around him untouched. Lawson is blitzing from the inside. Rookie fullback Bruce Miller correctly picks him up, but Lawson easily beats Miller. Nelson is at the bottom of the screen, on the left side of the offensive line. He beats Kendall Hunter, and all three meet at Smith at the same time for a seven-yard sack. However, defensive tackle Frostee Rucker is flagged for offside, negating the play.

6:59 1st & 6, CIN 6 - After a beautifully thrown 39-yard pass to Vernon Davis gets the ball deep in Cincinnati territory, Smith locks in on Michael Crabtree to his right and left tackle Joe Staley is overpowered by a bull rush by Rucker, who buries Smith for a six-yard sack. The Bengals rush four on the play.

4:15 3rd & 5, CIN 5 - The Bengals rush three, which puts eight defenders into a small space. Smith doesn't find anyone and takes off up the middle for the end zone. He's caught by his ankles by Geno Atkins for no gain, which is technically a sack.


Read more: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2011/09/five-sacks-breaking-down-the-breakdowns.html#ixzz1ZAr078PN

Ok, Dj made a very good point. Everyone seems to understand rachal is a weak link. So replace him with snyder or Kilgore. But Djs point was that one guy can make the guy on either side of him look bad too, so it makes it hard to asses who is really the problem. I agree with statement that we couldn't have drafted everyone of our high OL picks poorly. Odds are just against it. In reviewing the game yet again, I wonder if rachal made two other guys look bad because of his play. Maybe sit rachal and then try and evaluate the guys on either side of him. You start making three or four moves at a time, you can't evaluate the one change you made initially.

I don't like our O line coach that fool sucks dick apparently

Originally posted by oldman9er:
I would be preparing to make changes. Evaluate Kilgore's progress closely. If he is perceived as an upgrade to Rachal? Make that move at RG. That frees up Snyder, who I would start taking more practice snaps at OC. That will let Goodwin know he is on a very short leash. Also have Boone taking lots of snaps in practice at LT.... let Staley know he is also on a very short leash. Not only am I seeing guys get overpowered... I am seeing lethargic efforts out there. Let them see you are about to take their jobs away, and are serious about it.

I really like the idea of evaluating Kilgore as RG, giving him more practice time. Also agree that this frees Snyder for OC should Goodwin not improve. The most irritating aspect, which I have observed from training camp on, is what you call lethargy and I call lacking emotion...no fire to protect. Kilgore has that instinct and Snyder has always had it but I'm extremely disappointed in Staley. Iupati seems to have it...at least run blocking.

Competition is good for the soul and this line needs a healthy dose of it. They are still in the confused training camp mode and should be coming out of that and going into some fluidity...not every play, but at least a majority.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
I would be preparing to make changes. Evaluate Kilgore's progress closely. If he is perceived as an upgrade to Rachal? Make that move at RG. That frees up Snyder, who I would start taking more practice snaps at OC. That will let Goodwin know he is on a very short leash. Also have Boone taking lots of snaps in practice at LT.... let Staley know he is also on a very short leash. Not only am I seeing guys get overpowered... I am seeing lethargic efforts out there. Let them see you are about to take their jobs away, and are serious about it.

Awesome work old!!!! Wow...this is the kind of analysis I love.