Keep the points or take the first down?

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
Besides our 1 play TD, we didn't do sh*t in the third quarter. We couldn't run and Alex was getting the sh*t sacked out of him. In the second half (especially after Romo came back in) Dallas was moving the ball with ease and it was only a matter of time before Romo got hot. I think everybody felt it. I know I did.

i agree. People act like our offense was opposing their will on the Dallas D. That drive we had a play for negative yards and Alex Smith had a 12 yard scramble just to get in field goal range. We weren't going to keep marching down the field. Take the points and put the game in the hands of your D who had played a solid 3 quarters.

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
Besides our 1 play TD, we didn't do sh*t in the third quarter. We couldn't run and Alex was getting the sh*t sacked out of him. In the second half (especially after Romo came back in) Dallas was moving the ball with ease and it was only a matter of time before Romo got hot. I think everybody felt it. I know I did.

i agree. People act like our offense was opposing their will on the Dallas D. That drive we had a play for negative yards and Alex Smith had a 12 yard scramble just to get in field goal range. We weren't going to keep marching down the field. Take the points and put the game in the hands of your D who had played a solid 3 quarters.

Harbaugh's a puss. He should have known.

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Harbaugh's a puss. He should have known.

That the D would suddenly sh!t the bed?

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Harbaugh's a puss. He should have known.

That the D would suddenly sh!t the bed?

Sorry. I was being sarcastic. I thought the decision was reasonable.

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Harbaugh's a puss. He should have known.

That the D would suddenly sh!t the bed?

Sorry. I was being sarcastic. I thought the decision was reasonable.

ah, sorry man. My sarcasm detecter isn't very good

Harbaugh did say in the radio this morning that looking back at it now...he might have taken the points off the board...not sure what his exact words were...

Originally posted by Hitman49:
Harbaugh did say in the radio this morning that looking back at it now...he might have taken the points off the board...not sure what his exact words were...

That's hindsight, for him. It was a no-brainer and a 15 yard penalty to accept, not a measly 5-yarder to keep the FG at 51 if we accept.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Hitman49:
Harbaugh did say in the radio this morning that looking back at it now...he might have taken the points off the board...not sure what his exact words were...

That's hindsight, for him. It was a no-brainer and a 15 yard penalty to accept, not a measly 5-yarder to keep the FG at 51 if we accept.

NOOOO...UR WRONG.....it would have been a 50 yarder with a 5-yard penalty....

Originally posted by Hitman49:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Hitman49:
Harbaugh did say in the radio this morning that looking back at it now...he might have taken the points off the board...not sure what his exact words were...

That's hindsight, for him. It was a no-brainer and a 15 yard penalty to accept, not a measly 5-yarder to keep the FG at 51 if we accept.

NOOOO...UR WRONG.....it would have been a 50 yarder with a 5-yard penalty....

Originally posted by Hitman49:
Harbaugh did say in the radio this morning that looking back at it now...he might have taken the points off the board...not sure what his exact words were...

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/09/20/harbaugh-details-decision-to-keep-points-on-the-board/

Q: On Tuesday morning, after you sleep two nights on that loss, are you thinking ‘Gosh, if I could do it over again, I'd have done it differently.'”
JH: Well, there's no doubt about that. The way the game unfolded after that decision, you sure would like to go back and play it out the other way and seen what would have happened. And I knew the merits and perils of making the decision each way. Saw the merits of taking the points off the board, and taking the 15-yard penalty, and now you've got the ball down around the 27-yard line (it would have been the 22-yard line) and chance to take more time off the clock, chance to punch it into the end zone. So, yeah, I do see the merits of going either way with that decision. And, as you point out, when you lose the game it makes it the wrong decision. And you'd love to go back and play it out the other way.
Q: In the heat of the moment, it's an intense thing. You only have a couple-seconds window to make that decision. Is that something you feel comfortable with? Or is that something that only experience teaches you?
JH: Well, it's the heat of the moment, but that's your job. That's what you're there for — to make those kinds of decisions. I felt confident in the decision that we made, that I made, and it didn't play out into a victory. But I still feel that that was the right decision to make and probably would make the same decision in the future. The old adage, you don't take points off the board, I don't agree with that 100 percent. But in that situation, I felt like it was the best decision at the time.

If you click the link there is a video from Brian billick defending the call

Originally posted by valrod33:
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/09/20/harbaugh-details-decision-to-keep-points-on-the-board/

Q: On Tuesday morning, after you sleep two nights on that loss, are you thinking ‘Gosh, if I could do it over again, I'd have done it differently.'”
JH: Well, there's no doubt about that. The way the game unfolded after that decision, you sure would like to go back and play it out the other way and seen what would have happened. And I knew the merits and perils of making the decision each way. Saw the merits of taking the points off the board, and taking the 15-yard penalty, and now you've got the ball down around the 27-yard line (it would have been the 22-yard line) and chance to take more time off the clock, chance to punch it into the end zone. So, yeah, I do see the merits of going either way with that decision. And, as you point out, when you lose the game it makes it the wrong decision. And you'd love to go back and play it out the other way.
Q: In the heat of the moment, it's an intense thing. You only have a couple-seconds window to make that decision. Is that something you feel comfortable with? Or is that something that only experience teaches you?
JH: Well, it's the heat of the moment, but that's your job. That's what you're there for — to make those kinds of decisions. I felt confident in the decision that we made, that I made, and it didn't play out into a victory. But I still feel that that was the right decision to make and probably would make the same decision in the future. The old adage, you don't take points off the board, I don't agree with that 100 percent. But in that situation, I felt like it was the best decision at the time.

If you click the link there is a video from Brian billick defending the call

Originally posted by nickbradley:
I must be the only one who understands football, because it seems like I'm the only person supporting the Harbaugh decision. People who are angry simply do not understand the calculation Harbaugh made, and Bill Belichick would have made this decision with our team.

Simply put, the odds of scoring a touchdown were lower than the chance that we miss the make-up field goal, which is about 30% for Akers with 40-49 yard attempts...probably higher outdoors and so-so turf that had caused a lot of slippage during the game.

It was a PERFECT DECISION, a rational decision, a decision that a software program with perfect information would have made. I CHALLENGE ANYONE to make the case that we were more likely to score a touchdown than miss the follow-up.

Here's backup for the pro-Harbaugh case:

1. It's two scores that matters, not 2 touchdowns

2. Gore ran for 2.4 yards per carry and Smith was sacked once every FIVE times he dropped back. Chances of scoring were very low.

3. Accepting the penalty would have put us on the 25, or a 42-yard field goal.

4. If we didn't advance down the field again, Akers would have still been required to kick a 40+ yard field goal.

5. In his career, Akers has missed 3 out of every 10 field goals between 40 and 49 yards.

6. Half of our drives went backwards or nowhere, especially in the second half.

7. Heavy pressure causes turnovers.

The decision is debatable. Just because some of us hated the call doesn't mean we don't know football. I've been watching football for 20 years and i cannot recall us ever taking a field goal over the penalty with that much time to go. I just doesn't happen. We fight and strive for a first down and we would kill for 15 yards. And when the D gives you one, you decline it?


Yea we hit the field goal. But this is a loser mentality to have. We need to be more aggressive and go for the win.

1. Being up by two touchdowns does matter. It would have forced them to score two TD's in the fourth instead of a TD and a FG. That is much more difficult to accomplish.

2. We could have ran it three times and gained a few yards at the least, burned some time off the clock, and then kick it again.

3 and 4. Akers can hit a 40 yard field goal. If we aren't confident that out ST, which has been our best unit and full of pro-bowlers, can nail a 40 yarder with 8 min to go, we need a new kicker. Dude just blasted a 55 yarder easily and has been Mr. Clutch all year. If we had the Dallas kicker you would have a better point.

5. 7/10 from 40-49 is good. I bet the probability is even better with 40-45 yards range.

6. Backwards or nowhere still leads to more time off the clock and we still get that field goal. Just because we are struggling offensively. It is not an excuse to give away the chance to win or put us in a much better position to win.

7. Run the ball if that's the concern.


This kind of mentality is not going to get us wins. I knew that was a bad call then and it would hurt us. It did. Even if we won, it still hurt us.

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Harbaugh's a puss. He should have known.

That the D would suddenly sh!t the bed?

Sorry. I was being sarcastic. I thought the decision was reasonable.

a reasonable decision doesn't necessarily make it the right one

Originally posted by kujon11:

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Harbaugh's a puss. He should have known.

That the D would suddenly sh!t the bed?

Sorry. I was being sarcastic. I thought the decision was reasonable.

a reasonable decision doesn't necessarily make it the right one

And if he took the penalty we don't necessarily win the game.

I can understand those who think you need to show the team you trust them, though showing trust to the offense in this case also shows a lack of trust to the defense, but those who argue that taking time off the clock was important aren't being logical.

At that time in the game the 9ers line was swiss cheese and the result of taking the penalty would have likely been three and out, taking up a minute or so. Then if they missed the FG, Dallas only needs one score but still has plenty of time for two possessions. So time was in Dallas' favor unless A) the 9ers offense suddenly showed life or B) the 9ers defense suddenly figured out how to stop Dallas. The decision is moot.

As far as showing how tough you are by taking the points off the board--how'd that work for singletary? As Harbaugh said, yes it would be nice to go back and see what the other decision would have turned out, given the results.