Vernon "Aligator Arms" Davis

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Personally, I want him to alligator arm it in that situation. I wasn't a game clinching play and the Niners had the lead. No need to go out like he did in that Steelers game for nothing. Go back to the huddle and try again. I dont even think the ball was catchable.

The ball was catchable if he wasn't slowing down. He could have protected himself by going up for the ball, turning his back in to the oncoming safety. He's done that in similar situations, and he just pinballs off of them (VD big, safety small). If he tries to go up for the ball and can't because of the defender on his back, they have to throw the flag, which is just as good. They don't throw it when you show that you want nothing to do with that pass.

he could also force the safety to hit him with his shoulder in the mid-back or thighs, drawing an obvious helmet-to-helmet contact flag.

Krizay, this issue died 2 years ago because Vernon put up 13 touchdowns and 900 yards. All of his haters realized they were wrong, not you apparently.

He's a top 5 tight end and it's not even debateable. At this point who cares if you feel that's overdrafting for the position. Who cares if he's an elite tight end and not the best tight end ever like some posters thought he would be. LET IT GO. The pick panned out, he'll be a 10 year Niner. LET IT GO.

Vernon...would do so much better on another team....same can be said about Gore, Walker, Morgan, Crabtree..etc.

I think Vernon lost out on the Hall of Fame being with us for the past 6 years.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
The ball should be thrown more to the outside. Smith needs to recognized and throw it earlier.

Dude dont put that on Alex is was a ball that should have been caught...christ...this unconditional hate for Alex is dumb.

He made a good throw it didnt work out...dont blame everything on him...and move on.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Krizay, this issue died 2 years ago because Vernon put up 13 touchdowns and 900 yards. All of his haters realized they were wrong, not you apparently.

He's a top 5 tight end and it's not even debateable. At this point who cares if you feel that's overdrafting for the position. Who cares if he's an elite tight end and not the best tight end ever like some posters thought he would be. LET IT GO. The pick panned out, he'll be a 10 year Niner. LET IT GO.

its like saying if the patriots picked tom brady in the 2nd round instead of the 6th, that they reached for him. wtf cares, he's an elite player. but i'm guessing he'll never man up about it.

Originally posted by Sjceruti:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
The ball should be thrown more to the outside. Smith needs to recognized and throw it earlier.

Dude dont put that on Alex is was a ball that should have been caught...christ...this unconditional hate for Alex is dumb.

He made a good throw it didnt work out...dont blame everything on him...and move on.

I think you have more hate for Vernon Davis on this particular play than I am even close to a Smith hater. I would like Smith to succeed, but I will be critical if I deemed necessary. That ball needs to be out to Davis a little earlier and to the outside shoulder because of the closing safety from the inside. So Davis can still catch it and hang on for the hit. And not be as vulnerable as stretching out for a pass to the inside. The point is to have it closer to Davis so he can catch it and brace for the hit, instead of stretching out for the ball without any chance of bracing for that hit. If you aren't willing to be critical of the pass then you shouldn't be too critical of Vernon deciding to protect himself.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Krizay, this issue died 2 years ago because Vernon put up 13 touchdowns and 900 yards. All of his haters realized they were wrong, not you apparently.

He's a top 5 tight end and it's not even debateable. At this point who cares if you feel that's overdrafting for the position. Who cares if he's an elite tight end and not the best tight end ever like some posters thought he would be. LET IT GO. The pick panned out, he'll be a 10 year Niner. LET IT GO.

i'm sorry, did I start this thread?

Krizay and Vernon, on the ranch.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Krizay and Vernon, on the ranch.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
its like saying if the patriots picked tom brady in the 2nd round instead of the 6th, that they reached for him. wtf cares, he's an elite player. but i'm guessing he'll never man up about it.

Because I have a different view than you guys do. You guys see the 13 TD's to go along with his t-shirt and shorts work out in INDY and say wooooah he's the best. I'm the same guy that said neither Gates nor Gonzo would have been worth the pick. Though Gates may have me rethinking about it more so than the other two.

Gonzo is only considered elite because he like Davis was the only option. Not saying Gonzo or Davis isn't good but that's the only reason. They were force fed the ball. Look at Gonzo now on Atlanta, everyone immediately thinks he's on the back 9 of his career because of his numbers. His numbers dip because he's old? Or less oppurtunities in Atlanta?

last two seasons with KC
2007 154 targets, 99 catches, 1172 yards, 5 td's
2008 155 targets, 96 catches, 1058 yards, 10 td's

2009(ATL) 135 targets, 83 catches, 867 yards, 6 td's
2010 109 targets, 70 catches, 656 yards, 6 td's

All for years he averaged 62-64% of catches to targets. What changed? oppurtunities.

You guys confuse Davis' physical being for elite talent. That talent doesn't translate to the football field. His oppurtunities does. You guys will never EVER be able to look past that combine to CORRECTLY judge the talent that is VD.

Originally posted by krizay:
i'm sorry, did I start this thread?

The thread was about him missing a pass not about your 6 year old crusade.

Originally posted by krizay:
Because I have a different view than you guys do. You guys see the 13 TD's to go along with his t-shirt and shorts work out in INDY and say wooooah he's the best. I'm the same guy that said neither Gates nor Gonzo would have been worth the pick. Though Gates may have me rethinking about it more so than the other two.

Gonzo is only considered elite because he like Davis was the only option. Not saying Gonzo or Davis isn't good but that's the only reason. They were force fed the ball. Look at Gonzo now on Atlanta, everyone immediately thinks he's on the back 9 of his career because of his numbers. His numbers dip because he's old? Or less oppurtunities in Atlanta?

last two seasons with KC
2007 154 targets, 99 catches, 1172 yards, 5 td's
2008 155 targets, 96 catches, 1058 yards, 10 td's

2009(ATL) 135 targets, 83 catches, 867 yards, 6 td's
2010 109 targets, 70 catches, 656 yards, 6 td's

All for years he averaged 62-64% of catches to targets. What changed? oppurtunities.

You guys confuse Davis' physical being for elite talent. That talent doesn't translate to the football field. His oppurtunities does. You guys will never EVER be able to look past that combine to CORRECTLY judge the talent that is VD.

Vernon finished 8th in tight end targets last year with 93. Being the 3rd option in Rivers or Manning's offense > being the 1st option in Frisco. It goes without saying. The better the weapons around you, the better the qb play, the more opportunities everyone's going to have. We got sh*t in that department.

Your argument is so 2007. Nobody uses combine numbers. People use stats to back the argument up that Vernon is elite. 1,800 yards, 20 TD's. 1 Pro Bowl, 1 Pro Bowl alternative. That's elite production from a tight end to say otherwise is just plain ignorance. He finished 3rd and 8th in targets those 2 years.

And in hindsight outside of Hali Ngata you really can't even argue for another pick either. It was a weak draft class, spare me the mythicial Denver trade down opportunity it was clear as day they were hiding the fact that they wanted Cutler. Just let it go. We could have done alot worse than Vernon Davis. AJ Hawk, Michael Huff. You want to talk about average players at their positions.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
The thread was about him missing a pass not about your 6 year old crusade.

I understand that and my 1st post was ON TOPIC. Page 4 post #60. Then page 5, post #68 brings up Michael Huff! my 2nd post page 8, comment #107 was on topic for the game on Sunday with the lone comment of the revolutioner which I used cause of the Huff comment, the fastest comment and "best blocker" comment. But other than that all on topic.


I don't start these threads as I didn't comment until page 4. OTHER PEOPLE starts these threads and my 1st comment is usually on topic then someone who.... LOVES JUST TO LOVE gets it all off topic. I noticed that 3 of the people who quoted me never even quoted the OP on the topic. So ya, there is HATIN just to be HATIN going on here.

But as par for the course on this board, only one side gets seen.

I saw that too. Found myself yelling at the tv after that play. If Davis is gonna play like that we need someone else. That could of turned the momentum of the game. One big catch like that and Alex will have some confidence, the o line will block that much better, we would be rolling. VD we have to have that against dallas.

Seems the only differences in this thread are based on perception and expectations. VD is a great TE but he is what he is talent-wise. I would like him to be more flexible and nimble but that might take away from his blocking. Would like to see him recognize the blitz and shorten his routes but...

Good: speed, blocking, attitude, chemistry with QB
Bad: game IQ, rac

Game IQ is the ability to see what is happening and react to help the QB. Does he see the blitz and turn so the QB can hit him with a short gain? No. In comparison, Edwards is looking better and better. He will be Smith's go to guy by the end of the year.

RAC is not what we expected with his speed, but he has straight-line speed, not quick acceleration or turning speed to escape DBs.

Oddly, one of my arguments about the need for time and practice to develop chemistry between receivers and Smith has been disproven by Edwards, who seems to have a better relationship with Smith than anyone on the team, and after only one month of practice! I stand corrected. So, Edwards and VD have great chemistry, Ginn and Morgan are working on chemistry and the other guy is still not able to practice at full speed. They desperately need another receiver to step up.