Patrick Willis #23 on NFL countdown

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:
In regards to this thread. Like I said previously...I think a lot of people are being major homers complaining and making it seem like some major insult to have Patrick Willis at #23. The difference between 23 and some in 10-15 really is not that much when you are dealing with the top 100 players in the entire NFL. 23 still represents the top 2% of the league.

Some guys were even saying that he should be top 5 and maybe number one. That's just blind stupid homerism.

I could easily justify his being top-5. Other than Brady, Manning, and then I'll give you Brees and Rodgers, there's no one else that is unquestionably better.

Again, I think we are splitting hairs here. I see guys like Calvin Johnson, Damarcus Ware, Larry Fitzgerald, Darrelle Revis, Nmandi Ashohowdoyouspellit, Andre Johnson, Chris Johnson, the QBs you mentioned and don't forget about Phillip Rivers, maybe (but a think a bit of stretch) Big Ben, Jake Long (I know I'm missing some lineman alos) and can't possibly without a doubt say they are better than or worse than him.

I'm sure their are others i'm not thinking about off the top of my head. I do think he's better than Ray Lewis right now, but the track record is there for Lewis, so the players went with him.

Honestly, I just think its funny people were saying they refuse to watch because they ranked him at #23. Really?!?! People are that upset and insulted. It's homerism plain and simple. He's one of the best players in the game and 23 compared to 15 or 10 for that matter when you're talknig about 1700 players, is just nothing to get excited about.

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:
In regards to this thread. Like I said previously...I think a lot of people are being major homers complaining and making it seem like some major insult to have Patrick Willis at #23. The difference between 23 and some in 10-15 really is not that much when you are dealing with the top 100 players in the entire NFL. 23 still represents the top 2% of the league.

Some guys were even saying that he should be top 5 and maybe number one. That's just blind stupid homerism.

That's a good point, but I don't think it's a stretch to say he should be ranked in the top 10. In 4 years, he's a 4-time probowler and 3-time 1st team All-Pro. He is better at this point in time than Ray Lewis hands down, yet Lewis will be higher on this list. I thought this list was Best Players of 2011, not Best Players of 2000-2010. It is inconsistent in some spots.

I can see an "argument" for top 10, but I just don't think he there is at this point. Honestly, I think he's more 15 - 20, but playing MLB with the 49ers doesn't help him. Teams have learned to play around him a bit and even though he still is making plays and an impact, I think he still has room to grow.

He's already the best MLB in the NFL IMO and is an elite run stopper, but I think he can improve everywhere else in his game. I also think the new coaching staff will be a better job utilizing him more. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Singletary and Manusky were bad linebacker coaches, but their conservative focus on stopping the run type philsophy hindered a lot of the Niners players (especially the secondary) including Patrick Willis.

Name one linebacker, or even just defensive player, that has a more complete game. MAYBE Troy Polamalu is on par but that's about it. He's obviously the best against the run. No inside 'backer is as good a pass rusher, and he can also cover as well as any other inside 'backer with his athleticism, quickness, and sub-4.4 speed.

If you want me to consider a MLB in the top 5 players in the NFL at any point he better be a Lawernce Taylor type difference maker. Patrick Willis is just simply not that much of an impact at this point in his career and he may never be. I think he has TONS of potential and could go down as one of the greatest MLB in history, but I'm not ready to crown him yet just because I love the uniform he wears.

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:
In regards to this thread. Like I said previously...I think a lot of people are being major homers complaining and making it seem like some major insult to have Patrick Willis at #23. The difference between 23 and some in 10-15 really is not that much when you are dealing with the top 100 players in the entire NFL. 23 still represents the top 2% of the league.

Some guys were even saying that he should be top 5 and maybe number one. That's just blind stupid homerism.

I could easily justify his being top-5. Other than Brady, Manning, and then I'll give you Brees and Rodgers, there's no one else that is unquestionably better.

Again, I think we are splitting hairs here. I see guys like Calvin Johnson, Damarcus Ware, Larry Fitzgerald, Darrelle Revis, Nmandi Ashohowdoyouspellit, Andre Johnson, Chris Johnson, the QBs you mentioned and don't forget about Phillip Rivers, maybe (but a think a bit of stretch) Big Ben, Jake Long (I know I'm missing some lineman alos) and can't possibly without a doubt say they are better than or worse than him.

I'm sure their are others i'm not thinking about off the top of my head. I do think he's better than Ray Lewis right now, but the track record is there for Lewis, so the players went with him.

Honestly, I just think its funny people were saying they refuse to watch because they ranked him at #23. Really?!?! People are that upset and insulted. It's homerism plain and simple. He's one of the best players in the game and 23 compared to 15 or 10 for that matter when you're talknig about 1700 players, is just nothing to get excited about.

I believe he is the only player in NFL history to have 4 pro-bowl starts and 3 first team all pro selections (and 1 second team) in his first 4 years. I could be mistaken, but if anyone else has done it, it sure isn't a long list. That's worth being significantly higher than 23 in and of itself.

i think one of the few things im happy about Singletary is that he probably taught P. Willy a lot of valuable stuff...Willis is the man but wont get more recognition till the team starts winning some games...which will be this season!!!!!

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:
In regards to this thread. Like I said previously...I think a lot of people are being major homers complaining and making it seem like some major insult to have Patrick Willis at #23. The difference between 23 and some in 10-15 really is not that much when you are dealing with the top 100 players in the entire NFL. 23 still represents the top 2% of the league.

Some guys were even saying that he should be top 5 and maybe number one. That's just blind stupid homerism.

I could easily justify his being top-5. Other than Brady, Manning, and then I'll give you Brees and Rodgers, there's no one else that is unquestionably better.

Again, I think we are splitting hairs here. I see guys like Calvin Johnson, Damarcus Ware, Larry Fitzgerald, Darrelle Revis, Nmandi Ashohowdoyouspellit, Andre Johnson, Chris Johnson, the QBs you mentioned and don't forget about Phillip Rivers, maybe (but a think a bit of stretch) Big Ben, Jake Long (I know I'm missing some lineman alos) and can't possibly without a doubt say they are better than or worse than him.

I'm sure their are others i'm not thinking about off the top of my head. I do think he's better than Ray Lewis right now, but the track record is there for Lewis, so the players went with him.

Honestly, I just think its funny people were saying they refuse to watch because they ranked him at #23. Really?!?! People are that upset and insulted. It's homerism plain and simple. He's one of the best players in the game and 23 compared to 15 or 10 for that matter when you're talknig about 1700 players, is just nothing to get excited about.

I believe he is the only player in NFL history to have 4 pro-bowl starts and 3 first team all pro selections (and 1 second team) in his first 4 years. I could be mistaken, but if anyone else has done it, it sure isn't a long list. That's worth being significantly higher than 23 in and of itself.

Again, I think its just not that big of a deal. I can't say it anymore clearly. Could you make an argument for him being better than 23. Yes and I've said I think he's probably 15-20, but the difference between 23 and 10, 5, or even 1 for that matter in a ranking if 1700 based on peers opinions, really isnt something to get worked up about.

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:
In regards to this thread. Like I said previously...I think a lot of people are being major homers complaining and making it seem like some major insult to have Patrick Willis at #23. The difference between 23 and some in 10-15 really is not that much when you are dealing with the top 100 players in the entire NFL. 23 still represents the top 2% of the league.

Some guys were even saying that he should be top 5 and maybe number one. That's just blind stupid homerism.

I could easily justify his being top-5. Other than Brady, Manning, and then I'll give you Brees and Rodgers, there's no one else that is unquestionably better.

Again, I think we are splitting hairs here. I see guys like Calvin Johnson, Damarcus Ware, Larry Fitzgerald, Darrelle Revis, Nmandi Ashohowdoyouspellit, Andre Johnson, Chris Johnson, the QBs you mentioned and don't forget about Phillip Rivers, maybe (but a think a bit of stretch) Big Ben, Jake Long (I know I'm missing some lineman alos) and can't possibly without a doubt say they are better than or worse than him.

I'm sure their are others i'm not thinking about off the top of my head. I do think he's better than Ray Lewis right now, but the track record is there for Lewis, so the players went with him.

Honestly, I just think its funny people were saying they refuse to watch because they ranked him at #23. Really?!?! People are that upset and insulted. It's homerism plain and simple. He's one of the best players in the game and 23 compared to 15 or 10 for that matter when you're talknig about 1700 players, is just nothing to get excited about.

I believe he is the only player in NFL history to have 4 pro-bowl starts and 3 first team all pro selections (and 1 second team) in his first 4 years. I could be mistaken, but if anyone else has done it, it sure isn't a long list. That's worth being significantly higher than 23 in and of itself.

Again, I think its just not that big of a deal. I can't say it anymore clearly. Could you make an argument for him being better than 23. Yes and I've said I think he's probably 15-20, but the difference between 23 and 10, 5, or even 1 for that matter in a ranking if 1700 based on peers opinions, really isnt something to get worked up about.

What I'm just as upset (maybe more) about is Justin Smith not making it. He's the best 3-4 DE in the game (or 2nd if Ngata is a DE), and unless I'm forgetting someone, no one else is even close...he's probably a top-5 DL period with guys like Wilfork, Ngata, Suh, Seymour, and Peppers

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:
In regards to this thread. Like I said previously...I think a lot of people are being major homers complaining and making it seem like some major insult to have Patrick Willis at #23. The difference between 23 and some in 10-15 really is not that much when you are dealing with the top 100 players in the entire NFL. 23 still represents the top 2% of the league.

Some guys were even saying that he should be top 5 and maybe number one. That's just blind stupid homerism.

I could easily justify his being top-5. Other than Brady, Manning, and then I'll give you Brees and Rodgers, there's no one else that is unquestionably better.

Again, I think we are splitting hairs here. I see guys like Calvin Johnson, Damarcus Ware, Larry Fitzgerald, Darrelle Revis, Nmandi Ashohowdoyouspellit, Andre Johnson, Chris Johnson, the QBs you mentioned and don't forget about Phillip Rivers, maybe (but a think a bit of stretch) Big Ben, Jake Long (I know I'm missing some lineman alos) and can't possibly without a doubt say they are better than or worse than him.

I'm sure their are others i'm not thinking about off the top of my head. I do think he's better than Ray Lewis right now, but the track record is there for Lewis, so the players went with him.

Honestly, I just think its funny people were saying they refuse to watch because they ranked him at #23. Really?!?! People are that upset and insulted. It's homerism plain and simple. He's one of the best players in the game and 23 compared to 15 or 10 for that matter when you're talknig about 1700 players, is just nothing to get excited about.

I believe he is the only player in NFL history to have 4 pro-bowl starts and 3 first team all pro selections (and 1 second team) in his first 4 years. I could be mistaken, but if anyone else has done it, it sure isn't a long list. That's worth being significantly higher than 23 in and of itself.

Again, I think its just not that big of a deal. I can't say it anymore clearly. Could you make an argument for him being better than 23. Yes and I've said I think he's probably 15-20, but the difference between 23 and 10, 5, or even 1 for that matter in a ranking if 1700 based on peers opinions, really isnt something to get worked up about.

What I'm just as upset (maybe more) about is Justin Smith not making it. He's the best 3-4 DE in the game (or 2nd if Ngata is a DE), and unless I'm forgetting someone, no one else is even close...he's probably a top-5 DL period with guys like Wilfork, Ngata, Suh, Seymour, and Peppers

We can agree on that. Justin Smith is one of the more underrated players in the NFL IMO. If the Niners were better, he would get more recognition.

I'm pretty sure I read this ranking was done by the players themselves? If it was done by beat writers or something along those lines I would have thought he should have been ranked better but its hard to argue with the guys who actually play against him.

That is pretty good. You can look at it as the best player on the #23 ranked team n the league

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
That is pretty good. You can look at it as the best player on the #23 ranked team n the league

That's a unique perspective. I like that. Some folks have already mentioned the preference of some positions over others, as well. You have to work at it, but you can successfully scheme to avoid Willis. Free-releasing guards to cut him off on outside runs, passing deep and to the edges, and crack blocks on receiver screens have all limited his effectiveness this year. I think he is, without a doubt, the best MLB in the game, but I don't think the position gets much attention. So, wherever they put Ray Lewis is where Willis should have been. But there will always be a lot of QBs, DBs, and WRs at the top (more ESPN highlights and Madden impact).

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:
In regards to this thread. Like I said previously...I think a lot of people are being major homers complaining and making it seem like some major insult to have Patrick Willis at #23. The difference between 23 and some in 10-15 really is not that much when you are dealing with the top 100 players in the entire NFL. 23 still represents the top 2% of the league.

Some guys were even saying that he should be top 5 and maybe number one. That's just blind stupid homerism.

I could easily justify his being top-5. Other than Brady, Manning, and then I'll give you Brees and Rodgers, there's no one else that is unquestionably better.

Again, I think we are splitting hairs here. I see guys like Calvin Johnson, Damarcus Ware, Larry Fitzgerald, Darrelle Revis, Nmandi Ashohowdoyouspellit, Andre Johnson, Chris Johnson, the QBs you mentioned and don't forget about Phillip Rivers, maybe (but a think a bit of stretch) Big Ben, Jake Long (I know I'm missing some lineman alos) and can't possibly without a doubt say they are better than or worse than him.

I'm sure their are others i'm not thinking about off the top of my head. I do think he's better than Ray Lewis right now, but the track record is there for Lewis, so the players went with him.

Honestly, I just think its funny people were saying they refuse to watch because they ranked him at #23. Really?!?! People are that upset and insulted. It's homerism plain and simple. He's one of the best players in the game and 23 compared to 15 or 10 for that matter when you're talknig about 1700 players, is just nothing to get excited about.

To your point, we are just splitting hairs. With the exception of QB I think you can make a case for Willis being equal to almost all other players at any other position. It really just depends on what you value more. Is Ware really that much more valuable than Willis? I dont know. Ware had 15 sacks last season, Willis had 6. However, 99 percent of the time Ware is moving forward. I could see Willis as a 10 sack guy while keeping his other stats if he was in the right system. Personally, I would take Willis over any CB as CBs can be isolated a lot easier than a MLB. Again, just my opinion.

P.S. On a one year basis I would take Lewis over Willis. Personally, I put a very high premium on leadership (And I dont mean that "silent leader" crap.)

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:

Originally posted by andes14:

Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:
In regards to this thread. Like I said previously...I think a lot of people are being major homers complaining and making it seem like some major insult to have Patrick Willis at #23. The difference between 23 and some in 10-15 really is not that much when you are dealing with the top 100 players in the entire NFL. 23 still represents the top 2% of the league.

Some guys were even saying that he should be top 5 and maybe number one. That's just blind stupid homerism.

I could easily justify his being top-5. Other than Brady, Manning, and then I'll give you Brees and Rodgers, there's no one else that is unquestionably better.

Again, I think we are splitting hairs here. I see guys like Calvin Johnson, Damarcus Ware, Larry Fitzgerald, Darrelle Revis, Nmandi Ashohowdoyouspellit, Andre Johnson, Chris Johnson, the QBs you mentioned and don't forget about Phillip Rivers, maybe (but a think a bit of stretch) Big Ben, Jake Long (I know I'm missing some lineman alos) and can't possibly without a doubt say they are better than or worse than him.

I'm sure their are others i'm not thinking about off the top of my head. I do think he's better than Ray Lewis right now, but the track record is there for Lewis, so the players went with him.

Honestly, I just think its funny people were saying they refuse to watch because they ranked him at #23. Really?!?! People are that upset and insulted. It's homerism plain and simple. He's one of the best players in the game and 23 compared to 15 or 10 for that matter when you're talknig about 1700 players, is just nothing to get excited about.

To your point, we are just splitting hairs. With the exception of QB I think you can make a case for Willis being equal to almost all other players at any other position. It really just depends on what you value more. Is Ware really that much more valuable than Willis? I dont know. Ware had 15 sacks last season, Willis had 6. However, 99 percent of the time Ware is moving forward. I could see Willis as a 10 sack guy while keeping his other stats if he was in the right system. Personally, I would take Willis over any CB as CBs can be isolated a lot easier than a MLB. Again, just my opinion.

P.S. On a one year basis I would take Lewis over Willis. Personally, I put a very high premium on leadership (And I dont mean that "silent leader" crap.)

I watch a lot of Ravens games, and Lewis isn't a pro-bowl caliber player any more. He still has his fair share of Sportscenter highlight hits, but he's becoming a liability in a lot of aspects of the ILB game. Yeah, Lewis is still the heart of that D, but I'd take Willis over him without thinking twice.

Originally posted by cali49er86:
Patrick Willis best at his position.

there better not be another LB higher then him

Total all out BS!!!!

Given his first years in the NFL, he's accomplished a great deal on a very crappy team and that is the only reason why he's #23 and not in the top 15.

Originally posted by ninertico:
Total all out BS!!!!

Given his first years in the NFL, he's accomplished a great deal on a very crappy team and that is the only reason why he's #23 and not in the top 15.

Agreed.