What do we do with lawson!

Originally posted by backontop:
we resign him.


/thread

I don't think so. Maybe IF the team doesn't find a OLB in the draft.....*cough*Miller*cough* If it's true that Manny is gonna want big money then I say let him walk. He's never, ever, ever been a decent pass rusher. I know he does other things well, but lack of a pass rush has hurt this team for too long.

I think it would make more sense to resign Travis glassman Laboy and draft a guy like Miller. Brooks, Rookie, Haralson, and Laboy should work just fine.


Man, I really wish the Niners would have held on to D. Briggs. He had a fair amount of potential and really only needed to add a lil weight.

it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.

Originally posted by NCommand:



We won't miss Manny at all once we employ a proper 3-4 with the right personnel to fit it. Many fans on this board have no idea what a real 3-4 defense is supposed to look like...so here's a hint...watch the Superbowl and try to picture Lawson and Haralson in that defense and you'll get a good laugh!

Yes, specifically watch what the Dom Capers does with Clay Matthews.

Then compare that with what Manusky did with Lawson. This is where you might laugh.

I'll let Fangio decide if Lawson fits his scheme and if he's worth the money.

NCommand, you know as well as I do that you're comparing apples to oranges.

Originally posted by backontop:
it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.

Right on the money.

As I said above, I look forward to seeing what he can do in Fangio's blitz packages where they shift and overload one side leaving the OLB free to rush against only the RB. Lawson's speed and quickness could be very good there. He just doesn't have the bulk to be a power rusher.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by backontop:
it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.

Right on the money.

As I said above, I look forward to seeing what he can do in Fangio's blitz packages where they shift and overload one side leaving the OLB free to rush against only the RB. Lawson's speed and quickness could be very good there. He just doesn't have the bulk to be a power rusher.

especially with those skinny ass legs

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by NCommand:



We won't miss Manny at all once we employ a proper 3-4 with the right personnel to fit it. Many fans on this board have no idea what a real 3-4 defense is supposed to look like...so here's a hint...watch the Superbowl and try to picture Lawson and Haralson in that defense and you'll get a good laugh!

Yes, specifically watch what the Dom Capers does with Clay Matthews.

Then compare that with what Manusky did with Lawson. This is where you might laugh.

I'll let Fangio decide if Lawson fits his scheme and if he's worth the money.

NCommand, you know as well as I do that you're comparing apples to oranges.

Naw, I think NCommand is right. Part of the reason Manusky was so conservative was he learned from Mike Nolan, but another part of it was Manny's lack of pass rush ability.

As I said earlier in the thread, I think Manny is a great fit in a Tampa 2 4-3 scheme, but a in a 3-4 he's a square peg in a round hole. He does a lot of things very well EXCEPT rush the passer. He's not even close to Clay Matthews in that aspect of play.

Originally posted by backontop:
it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.

Yes he is valueable, but not as much as you think IMO. I'm not confused on his strengths, I know what they are and what they are NOT. And what they aren't is pass rushing. Even your claim of "get around 5 sacks" is a little over blown. More likely is he'll get around 2-3 sacks.

And that IS the problem. He is an OLB playing in a 3-4 defense that MUST have production from it's OLB. And when I say production, I mean SACKS. Not pressures, SACKS! Lawson is just not that kind of guy. I think he'd be outstanding playing in a Tampa 2 style 4-3. He's outstanding against the run and above avg playing in space against the pass. He just hasn't turned into the pass rusher we all wanted him to be, plain and simple.

Look, I like Lawson as much as the next guy. But when Manusky has him benched during obvious passing downs, that should tell you something. The dude has never been and will never be the kind of pass rusher that can excel in a 3-4 defense.

Originally posted by AKfanster:

Originally posted by backontop:
it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.

Yes he is valueable, but not as much as you think IMO. I'm not confused on his strengths, I know what they are and what they are NOT. And what they aren't is pass rushing. Even your claim of "get around 5 sacks" is a little over blown. More likely is he'll get around 2-3 sacks.

And that IS the problem. He is an OLB playing in a 3-4 defense that MUST have production from it's OLB. And when I say production, I mean SACKS. Not pressures, SACKS! Lawson is just not that kind of guy. I think he'd be outstanding playing in a Tampa 2 style 4-3. He's outstanding against the run and above avg playing in space against the pass. He just hasn't turned into the pass rusher we all wanted him to be, plain and simple.

Look, I like Lawson as much as the next guy. But when Manusky has him benched during obvious passing downs, that should tell you something. The dude has never been and will never be the kind of pass rusher that can excel in a 3-4 defense.

Lawson is also pulled out on passing downs. He is mainly utilized to cover a TE or set the edge on rushing downs. Setting an edge is pretty important factor for stopping the run. If you don't believe me just watch Harolson try and do it. The fact is that while he isn't that sack master that for some reason some expected him to be, he is still one of the top OLB in the league. I stand by my opinion that letting Lawson go will be a HUGE mistake on our part.

Last time I checked we run a 34 defense. In a 34 the OLB has to be able to get to the QB! Look at the 2 teams in the super bowl. Both run a 34 and both have OLB that get to the QB. They have to be able to get to the QB so they can better disguise the D. You really can't do that then the O doesn't have to account for a OLB because he can't put pressure on qb. Then on 3 down and long we throw in our OLB that can apply pressure. That's stupid!! Balke has already said that the secondary is better then people think that we need to get players to apply pressure on the QB. I would like to let Lawson go because he stinks and cut Haralson too. Keep Brooks and resign LaBoy. Then draft Von Miller, Brooks Reed, and Dontay Moch. I'm not saying draft all of them but I think at least 2 of them. Then I think that it would be awesome to get Woodley! I would rather have A. Smith back then Lawson. Manny!!!

[ Edited by greywolf447 on Jan 31, 2011 at 22:20:37 ]

Originally posted by Owens81Owns:


Naw, I think NCommand is right. Part of the reason Manusky was so conservative was he learned from Mike Nolan, but another part of it was Manny's lack of pass rush ability.

As I said earlier in the thread, I think Manny is a great fit in a Tampa 2 4-3 scheme, but a in a 3-4 he's a square peg in a round hole. He does a lot of things very well EXCEPT rush the passer. He's not even close to Clay Matthews in that aspect of play.

Matthews isn't an elite pass rusher.

He's an elite blitzer.

Apple, meet Orange.

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by Owens81Owns:


Naw, I think NCommand is right. Part of the reason Manusky was so conservative was he learned from Mike Nolan, but another part of it was Manny's lack of pass rush ability.

As I said earlier in the thread, I think Manny is a great fit in a Tampa 2 4-3 scheme, but a in a 3-4 he's a square peg in a round hole. He does a lot of things very well EXCEPT rush the passer. He's not even close to Clay Matthews in that aspect of play.

Matthews isn't an elite pass rusher.

He's an elite blitzer.

Apple, meet Orange.

Says who? You? I've seen him many times rush off the edge and dominate a tackle 1 on 1. That is what I would call "an elite pass rusher". Now sure, Capers does other things with him as well, but to say Matthews isn't an elite pass rusher and is a product of Caper's blitzes is quite ridiculous.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by AKfanster:

Originally posted by backontop:
it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.

Yes he is valueable, but not as much as you think IMO. I'm not confused on his strengths, I know what they are and what they are NOT. And what they aren't is pass rushing. Even your claim of "get around 5 sacks" is a little over blown. More likely is he'll get around 2-3 sacks.

And that IS the problem. He is an OLB playing in a 3-4 defense that MUST have production from it's OLB. And when I say production, I mean SACKS. Not pressures, SACKS! Lawson is just not that kind of guy. I think he'd be outstanding playing in a Tampa 2 style 4-3. He's outstanding against the run and above avg playing in space against the pass. He just hasn't turned into the pass rusher we all wanted him to be, plain and simple.

Look, I like Lawson as much as the next guy. But when Manusky has him benched during obvious passing downs, that should tell you something. The dude has never been and will never be the kind of pass rusher that can excel in a 3-4 defense.

Lawson is also pulled out on passing downs. He is mainly utilized to cover a TE or set the edge on rushing downs. Setting an edge is pretty important factor for stopping the run. If you don't believe me just watch Harolson try and do it. The fact is that while he isn't that sack master that for some reason some expected him to be, he is still one of the top OLB in the league. I stand by my opinion that letting Lawson go will be a HUGE mistake on our part.

I think you need to watch the Super Bowl and pay close attention to the D's. Then ask yourself if you think either of those teams would want Manny on their team. Ask yourself if any of their OLB resemble Manny for that matter. Specifically pay attention to Green Bay's! That what I hope our D looks like next season!

Originally posted by greywolf447:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by AKfanster:

Originally posted by backontop:
it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.

Yes he is valueable, but not as much as you think IMO. I'm not confused on his strengths, I know what they are and what they are NOT. And what they aren't is pass rushing. Even your claim of "get around 5 sacks" is a little over blown. More likely is he'll get around 2-3 sacks.

And that IS the problem. He is an OLB playing in a 3-4 defense that MUST have production from it's OLB. And when I say production, I mean SACKS. Not pressures, SACKS! Lawson is just not that kind of guy. I think he'd be outstanding playing in a Tampa 2 style 4-3. He's outstanding against the run and above avg playing in space against the pass. He just hasn't turned into the pass rusher we all wanted him to be, plain and simple.

Look, I like Lawson as much as the next guy. But when Manusky has him benched during obvious passing downs, that should tell you something. The dude has never been and will never be the kind of pass rusher that can excel in a 3-4 defense.

Lawson is also pulled out on passing downs. He is mainly utilized to cover a TE or set the edge on rushing downs. Setting an edge is pretty important factor for stopping the run. If you don't believe me just watch Harolson try and do it. The fact is that while he isn't that sack master that for some reason some expected him to be, he is still one of the top OLB in the league. I stand by my opinion that letting Lawson go will be a HUGE mistake on our part.

I think you need to watch the Super Bowl and pay close attention to the D's. Then ask yourself if you think either of those teams would want Manny on their team. Ask yourself if any of their OLB resemble Manny for that matter. Specifically pay attention to Green Bay's! That what I hope our D looks like next season!

did you read my posts? I've already stated that Manny Lawson isn't a guy that will get you 10+ sacks. If you're going to try and "call me out" at least know wtf you're talking about.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by greywolf447:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by AKfanster:

Originally posted by backontop:
it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.

Yes he is valueable, but not as much as you think IMO. I'm not confused on his strengths, I know what they are and what they are NOT. And what they aren't is pass rushing. Even your claim of "get around 5 sacks" is a little over blown. More likely is he'll get around 2-3 sacks.

And that IS the problem. He is an OLB playing in a 3-4 defense that MUST have production from it's OLB. And when I say production, I mean SACKS. Not pressures, SACKS! Lawson is just not that kind of guy. I think he'd be outstanding playing in a Tampa 2 style 4-3. He's outstanding against the run and above avg playing in space against the pass. He just hasn't turned into the pass rusher we all wanted him to be, plain and simple.

Look, I like Lawson as much as the next guy. But when Manusky has him benched during obvious passing downs, that should tell you something. The dude has never been and will never be the kind of pass rusher that can excel in a 3-4 defense.

Lawson is also pulled out on passing downs. He is mainly utilized to cover a TE or set the edge on rushing downs. Setting an edge is pretty important factor for stopping the run. If you don't believe me just watch Harolson try and do it. The fact is that while he isn't that sack master that for some reason some expected him to be, he is still one of the top OLB in the league. I stand by my opinion that letting Lawson go will be a HUGE mistake on our part.

I think you need to watch the Super Bowl and pay close attention to the D's. Then ask yourself if you think either of those teams would want Manny on their team. Ask yourself if any of their OLB resemble Manny for that matter. Specifically pay attention to Green Bay's! That what I hope our D looks like next season!

did you read my posts? I've already stated that Manny Lawson isn't a guy that will get you 10+ sacks. If you're going to try and "call me out" at least know wtf you're talking about.

I'm just saying that I don't believe you understand what it takes to be successful in a 34 D. Pass rushing OLB is essential for 34 D. Something that Manny cannot do. That's why I recommended that you watch the 2 best 34 D's in the league and ask yourself if you think the steelers or packers would have any interest in Manny.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by AKfanster:

Originally posted by backontop:
it seems like everyone is confused on Lawson's strengths. He is not the guy that will get 10+ sacks a season. He is the guy that will get around 5 while creating some pressure, setting the edge and covering the TE. He is very valuable to this team and letting him go will be a huge mistake.

Yes he is valueable, but not as much as you think IMO. I'm not confused on his strengths, I know what they are and what they are NOT. And what they aren't is pass rushing. Even your claim of "get around 5 sacks" is a little over blown. More likely is he'll get around 2-3 sacks.

And that IS the problem. He is an OLB playing in a 3-4 defense that MUST have production from it's OLB. And when I say production, I mean SACKS. Not pressures, SACKS! Lawson is just not that kind of guy. I think he'd be outstanding playing in a Tampa 2 style 4-3. He's outstanding against the run and above avg playing in space against the pass. He just hasn't turned into the pass rusher we all wanted him to be, plain and simple.

Look, I like Lawson as much as the next guy. But when Manusky has him benched during obvious passing downs, that should tell you something. The dude has never been and will never be the kind of pass rusher that can excel in a 3-4 defense.

Lawson is also pulled out on passing downs. He is mainly utilized to cover a TE or set the edge on rushing downs. Setting an edge is pretty important factor for stopping the run. If you don't believe me just watch Harolson try and do it. The fact is that while he isn't that sack master that for some reason some expected him to be, he is still one of the top OLB in the league. I stand by my opinion that letting Lawson go will be a HUGE mistake on our part.

I also think Lawson is one of the best OLB's in the league, but in a 3-4, the primary job is pass rush. He is a player who is playing in the perfectly wrong scheme for what he does best.

Salary cap is everything. If we pay Lawson a lot of money to do everything but rush the passer, we are under-utilizing that money for that position on the field. If there was no salary cap, I would be 100% in favor of keeping Lawson for the reasons you stated, but with a salary cap, you can't keep all the good players on your team, you can only keep the players that FIT well on your team.

Lawson will be a perennial All-Pro in a 4-3 scheme, but we can't pay him All-Pro money if he can't get to the quarterback in our 3-4 scheme. It always comes down to money.