Crabtree, Morgan, and the West Coast Offense | Page 4

mississippi_sam · 2011-01-07T19:50:21-08:00

Crabtree should be excited about today. The promise of the West Cost Offense being installed will benefit him greatly. He fits the system better than the previous system. No need to be concerned about his lack of breakaway speed anymore. Morgan is a dangerous RAC guy, which is a big component of the WCO. I'm looking forward to "getting back to our roots".

Jan 7, 2011 at 10:44 PM

#46

SanDiego49er
Veteran
Posts: 52,167

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

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Jan 7, 2011 at 10:47 PM

#47

BSofSF
Veteran
Posts: 2,369

Originally posted by SF4EVA:
The west coast is TE friendly So the tilte should be VERn Crabtree and the west coast

Agree it's TE friendly, but not in the Vernon Davis sence. Davis was actually a good fit with Smith on those medium range seem routes. But I seem to recall when the Niners ran the WCO that all of our TEs had hands, hands, hands. Davis is more of a big play threat, but he's a little awkward on the short crossing stuff, though he has improved his hands a lot. Walker seems more of a WCO receiving TE to me, but his hands are suspect also.

Jan 7, 2011 at 10:47 PM

#48

Slash49
Veteran
Posts: 2,537

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Jan 7, 2011 at 10:49 PM

#49

SanDiego49er
Veteran
Posts: 52,167

Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Dingleberry had no idea how to use Jason Hill. He likes "blockers" at WR. Fast doesn't matter to him. Harbaugh may have other ideas. Ginn is more of a return guy with not the best hands. There are other WR's you can get in FA and the draft who are faster than Morgan. It shouldn't be hard to beat Morgan's speed. That's easy.

[ Edited by SanDiego49er on Jan 7, 2011 at 22:49:30 ]

Jan 7, 2011 at 10:52 PM

#50

Slash49
Veteran
Posts: 2,537

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Dingleberry had no idea how to use Jason Hill. He likes "blockers" at WR. Fast doesn't matter to him. Harbaugh may have other ideas. Ginn is more of a return guy with not the best hands. There are other WR's you can get in FA and the draft who are faster than Morgan. It shouldn't be hard to beat Morgan's speed. That's easy.

You gotta admit though, even if Teddy Ginn's hands are not great, if u throw him a deep ball he will catch one, and as i said earlier, why we dumped Hill for Ziggy is beyond me, hopefully they use Kyle Williams more now, although he is not a burner, he is very quick.

Jan 7, 2011 at 10:53 PM

#51

SanDiego49er
Veteran
Posts: 52,167

Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Dingleberry had no idea how to use Jason Hill. He likes "blockers" at WR. Fast doesn't matter to him. Harbaugh may have other ideas. Ginn is more of a return guy with not the best hands. There are other WR's you can get in FA and the draft who are faster than Morgan. It shouldn't be hard to beat Morgan's speed. That's easy.

You gotta admit though, even if Teddy Ginn's hands are not great, if u throw him a deep ball he will catch one, and as i said earlier, why we dumped Hill for Ziggy is beyond me, hopefully they use Kyle Williams more now, although he is not a burner, he is very quick.

We did it because we had Dingleberry. Big body + blocking = more important than speed. But now we have a real coach and my suspicion would be that he values speed on the outside.

[ Edited by SanDiego49er on Jan 7, 2011 at 22:53:50 ]

Jan 7, 2011 at 10:54 PM

#52

Slash49
Veteran
Posts: 2,537

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Dingleberry had no idea how to use Jason Hill. He likes "blockers" at WR. Fast doesn't matter to him. Harbaugh may have other ideas. Ginn is more of a return guy with not the best hands. There are other WR's you can get in FA and the draft who are faster than Morgan. It shouldn't be hard to beat Morgan's speed. That's easy.

You gotta admit though, even if Teddy Ginn's hands are not great, if u throw him a deep ball he will catch one, and as i said earlier, why we dumped Hill for Ziggy is beyond me, hopefully they use Kyle Williams more now, although he is not a burner, he is very quick.

We did it because we had Dingleberry. Big body + blocking = more important than speed. But now we have a real coach and my suspicion would be that he values speed on the outside.

Titus Young....HERE WE COME!!!!!!

Jan 7, 2011 at 10:55 PM

#53

49erRider
Veteran
Posts: 7,508

Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Jason Hill never played with speed. His fast 40 time never translated to game speed.

Jan 7, 2011 at 10:57 PM

#54

49erRider
Veteran
Posts: 7,508

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Dingleberry had no idea how to use Jason Hill. He likes "blockers" at WR. Fast doesn't matter to him. Harbaugh may have other ideas. Ginn is more of a return guy with not the best hands. There are other WR's you can get in FA and the draft who are faster than Morgan. It shouldn't be hard to beat Morgan's speed. That's easy.

You gotta admit though, even if Teddy Ginn's hands are not great, if u throw him a deep ball he will catch one, and as i said earlier, why we dumped Hill for Ziggy is beyond me, hopefully they use Kyle Williams more now, although he is not a burner, he is very quick.

We did it because we had Dingleberry. Big body + blocking = more important than speed. But now we have a real coach and my suspicion would be that he values speed on the outside.

FAIL.

Have you seen Zeigler? He's tall, but he's a twig and his blocking skills are lower than average, which is why he was never really given a chance to play. It's true that Singletary wanted a big bodied blocker, but Zeigler certainly does not fit the description so your reasoning for us keeping him over Jason Hill is ill-informed to say the least.

[ Edited by 49erRider on Jan 7, 2011 at 22:59:41 ]

Jan 7, 2011 at 10:58 PM

#55

SanDiego49er
Veteran
Posts: 52,167

Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Dingleberry had no idea how to use Jason Hill. He likes "blockers" at WR. Fast doesn't matter to him. Harbaugh may have other ideas. Ginn is more of a return guy with not the best hands. There are other WR's you can get in FA and the draft who are faster than Morgan. It shouldn't be hard to beat Morgan's speed. That's easy.

You gotta admit though, even if Teddy Ginn's hands are not great, if u throw him a deep ball he will catch one, and as i said earlier, why we dumped Hill for Ziggy is beyond me, hopefully they use Kyle Williams more now, although he is not a burner, he is very quick.

We did it because we had Dingleberry. Big body + blocking = more important than speed. But now we have a real coach and my suspicion would be that he values speed on the outside.

Titus Young....HERE WE COME!!!!!!

Maybe in the draft or maybe a FA. How about a big giant of a guy like Vincent Jackson who can run fast? 6'5" 240 lbs. sub 4.5 40 and real productive.

Jan 7, 2011 at 10:58 PM

#56

dj43
Moderator
Posts: 38,137

Originally posted by Sims84:
Originally posted by modninerfan:
Well... after Alex, Rossum, Jennings, Roman, Battle, I guess Morgan is gonna be the next 49er to crucify.

in his defense let me throw out some numbers. This year Morgan caught nearly 700 yards as our #2 WR and #3 Receiver

As a #2 wide receiver that ranks him 12th in the league in total yards
As a #3 receiver (includes TE) he ranks 2nd in the league

Statistically speaking (in total yards) this year he outperformed all of Raiders, Panthers and Rams receivers as our #3.

He outperformed the #2 recievers on the following teams: Bills Falcons Bears Browns Packers Texans Vikings Chiefs Seahawks.

I think you guys are looking at the problem the wrong way. Morgan is doing fine as our #3 receiver, Davis is doing fantastic as our #1 WR considering he's a TE. Where we are failing Crabtree. he should be putting numbers up in the 1000-1100 range yet he's around 750.

How are we failing at Crabtree when he had 55 catches for over 700 yards in a run first offense AS THE 2ND OPTION? That means, if he was the 1st option, he is easily at the 1,000 yard mark and if we were in a pass heavy offense he reaches that 1,000 yard mark as well.

Some may even argue he really wasn't a "fair" 2nd option due to how many quick RB swing passes we used but that's up for debate somewhere else.

Crabtree is just fine. Once he is there for the whole off-season (expecting him to go through it this year, pre-season and all) AND coached up a little bit (Vernon has Hoener who has done a great job, Crabtree has Sullivan who sucks and always has sucked) AND put in a position to succeed (BALANCED offense) Crabtree will be just fine.

We run a 2 TE, RB, FB, 1 WR as our base offense in which Morgan gets the nod as the 1 WR the majority of the time because of his blocking so NO, we are not "failing" at Crabtree

It is too late at night to start a big discussion but Hoener has NOT done a good job with Davis. In addition to taking him almost four years to begin to realize a portion of his potential, Hoener STILL has not taught him the most basic components of the #1 job of a TE in a passing offense.

Jan 7, 2011 at 10:59 PM

#57

AlohaBruh
Veteran
Posts: 3,521

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

Everything you say is irrelevant.....

You like speed? go be a troll for the raiders.

(hope you give a good response because I wont read it.. Hehe!)

Jan 7, 2011 at 11:00 PM

#58

SanDiego49er
Veteran
Posts: 52,167

Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Dingleberry had no idea how to use Jason Hill. He likes "blockers" at WR. Fast doesn't matter to him. Harbaugh may have other ideas. Ginn is more of a return guy with not the best hands. There are other WR's you can get in FA and the draft who are faster than Morgan. It shouldn't be hard to beat Morgan's speed. That's easy.

You gotta admit though, even if Teddy Ginn's hands are not great, if u throw him a deep ball he will catch one, and as i said earlier, why we dumped Hill for Ziggy is beyond me, hopefully they use Kyle Williams more now, although he is not a burner, he is very quick.

We did it because we had Dingleberry. Big body + blocking = more important than speed. But now we have a real coach and my suspicion would be that he values speed on the outside.

FAIL.

Have you seen Zeigler?

Z is the one smaller, skinny guy he kept. He liked Z because he practices and Jason Hill was always injured so he fell out of favor. That and getting poked in the eye was his undoing. Z is a marginal guy way down the roster.

If you look at the starting 2 they are big bodied guys. Morgan 220 lbs. Crabtree 215 lbs. Going up against 180 lb. db's. Those are Dingleberry type blockers.

Jan 7, 2011 at 11:02 PM

#59

49erRider
Veteran
Posts: 7,508

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Dingleberry had no idea how to use Jason Hill. He likes "blockers" at WR. Fast doesn't matter to him. Harbaugh may have other ideas. Ginn is more of a return guy with not the best hands. There are other WR's you can get in FA and the draft who are faster than Morgan. It shouldn't be hard to beat Morgan's speed. That's easy.

You gotta admit though, even if Teddy Ginn's hands are not great, if u throw him a deep ball he will catch one, and as i said earlier, why we dumped Hill for Ziggy is beyond me, hopefully they use Kyle Williams more now, although he is not a burner, he is very quick.

We did it because we had Dingleberry. Big body + blocking = more important than speed. But now we have a real coach and my suspicion would be that he values speed on the outside.

FAIL.

Have you seen Zeigler?

Z is the one smaller, skinny guy he kept. He liked Z because he practices and Jason Hill was always injured so he fell out of favor. That and getting poked in the eye was his undoing. Z is a marginal guy way down the roster.

If you look at the starting 2 they are big bodied guys. Morgan 220 lbs. Crabtree 215 lbs. Going up against 180 lb. db's. Those are Dingleberry type blockers.

Slash49 said he doesn't know why they kept Zeigler over Hill, you said it was because Singletary wanted big bodied blockers, but Zeigler is not a big-bodied blocker. The other guys are bigger bodied guys, but the discussion wasn't about them.

By the way, Zeigler was kept because he ran crisp routes and had sure hands. He received no playing time because he wasn't the big-bodied blocker Singletary wanted on the field for his run-run-short pass-punt offense.

[ Edited by 49erRider on Jan 7, 2011 at 23:06:35 ]

Jan 7, 2011 at 11:06 PM

#60

SanDiego49er
Veteran
Posts: 52,167

Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by Slash49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Morgan haters..... He took a giant leap up as a WR this year and he is a great run blocker. Harbaugh is a run first guy; he just is more strategic about it unlike Sing so Morgan will fit in nicely and I hope continues to become better while blossoming in the WCO.

He's the slowest WR we have. We need more speed.

We do/did....their names are Jason Hill and Ted Ginn

Dingleberry had no idea how to use Jason Hill. He likes "blockers" at WR. Fast doesn't matter to him. Harbaugh may have other ideas. Ginn is more of a return guy with not the best hands. There are other WR's you can get in FA and the draft who are faster than Morgan. It shouldn't be hard to beat Morgan's speed. That's easy.

You gotta admit though, even if Teddy Ginn's hands are not great, if u throw him a deep ball he will catch one, and as i said earlier, why we dumped Hill for Ziggy is beyond me, hopefully they use Kyle Williams more now, although he is not a burner, he is very quick.

We did it because we had Dingleberry. Big body + blocking = more important than speed. But now we have a real coach and my suspicion would be that he values speed on the outside.

FAIL.

Have you seen Zeigler?

Z is the one smaller, skinny guy he kept. He liked Z because he practices and Jason Hill was always injured so he fell out of favor. That and getting poked in the eye was his undoing. Z is a marginal guy way down the roster.

If you look at the starting 2 they are big bodied guys. Morgan 220 lbs. Crabtree 215 lbs. Going up against 180 lb. db's. Those are Dingleberry type blockers.

The guy said he doesn't know why they kept Zeigler over Hill, you said it was because Singletary wanted big bodied blockers, but Zeigler is not a big-bodied blocker. The other guys are bigger bodied guys, but the discussion wasn't about them.

Z was making plays. Hill was injured and not making plays. Hill and Dingleberry no longer here. Simple as that. Starting lineup was bigger guys. The Dingleberry preference. "We must be able to run the ball."

Another HC may value different things from a WR.