Warner on T. Smith...Pocket passer?

Well i know we are all gonna be watching today, but if the OOG's of the zone could do me a favor and just check out T. Smith in the pocket.

A few things i've just wondered in 2 games.

Because he seems to be so good on his feet, at times it seems like he runs or scrambles when he may have a little more time in the pocket.

I mean he has taken some sacks because of the line, so trust me i take that into complete account. He's won 2 for us and i aint taking s**t away from his skills or good throws.

But just a few times my heart beat fast as hell, because he either jumped, pump faked or scrambled, when i thought, had he waited a second more, he could of found Crabs or Davis for a big gain or TD.

So if you guys can maybe take a look for a brotha it would be greatly appreciated:)

He definitely has the calmness of a crackhead during a hurricane, like dave chappelle said, they got impecable balance and calmness. lol

It's nice to be excited again about the offense making more plays, but I wanna see if he looks more comfortable in the pocket, or more when he's improvising, and making plays that start after he's out of the pocket.

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
the more he stays in the pocket, the more batted balls we will see.

He needs to drop back a few steps deeper if he's going to stay in the pocket and pass out of it.

Quote:
Because he seems to be so good on his feet, at times it seems like he runs or scrambles when he may have a little more time in the pocket.

I noticed the total opposite. I think there were multiple occasions where he simply held the ball way too long waiting for slow developing routes to come open. He's being coached to stay in the pocket...against his better instincts.

Originally posted by kray28:

Quote:
Because he seems to be so good on his feet, at times it seems like he runs or scrambles when he may have a little more time in the pocket.

I noticed the total opposite. I think there were multiple occasions where he simply held the ball way too long waiting for slow developing routes to come open. He's being coached to stay in the pocket...against his better instincts.

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
What are we going to do when Alex Smith signs with the Turdinals and he proceeds to ass rape us for the next 8 years.

It will be great for all the Alex Smith fanatics to go root for the team he signs for next year.

I will be nice to stop hearing how Alex Smith will be a HOF QB if all the "IF'S" come true.

I don't know, he hasn't played enough.

Warner was an absolute concrete statue in the pocket. I think he is assuming that factor is a key to success for all QBs just because it was for him. I just don't think it's that cut and dry.

A tall, stand in the pocket QB needs a great line and receivers to succeed, and not many teams have all this.

It is a lot easier to come up with a fast, roll-out and able to run QB who can put some pressure on the D and make up for a less than perfect line and a predictable offense.

Actually, when Sing took over the offense I posted that only Davis could escape the blitzes and throw on the run well enough to save Sing's job. It took longer than expected for this realization to sink in, and it was T.Smith rather than Davis, but the general idea that an imperfect team needs a scrambler to succeed seems to be true.

Originally posted by Shaj:
Warner was an absolute concrete statue in the pocket. I think he is assuming that factor is a key to success for all QBs just because it was for him. I just don't think it's that cut and dry.

Agreed. Warner had absolutely no mobility in the pocket. I don't think his assertion is correct though. QBs like Michael Vick, Ben Roethlisberger, younger McNabb, even Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees at times, all excel because when the play breaks down they have the ability to extend the play. I don't think in today's NFL you can be a statue "stand-tall-in-the-pocket-no-matter-what" QB and succeed without a great offensive line and receivers.

Let's say defenses do try to keep him in the pocket. In order to do this they need to either spy him, which takes a man out of coverage, or have their DEs play contain, which eases up off of the pass rush. Either of those would only help a QB like Troy Smith who has shown that he can find the open receiver, and that if you give him enough time he'll make you pay.

[ Edited by norcal49er864 on Nov 21, 2010 at 12:03:36 ]

Well this is what M. Johnson the O.C. said,

"He is a better play-action passer than a shotgun, drop-back passer. That's what he's been in college. That's what he's been his entire life."

So do my OG"s have any clearer assessment.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.

I think Troy Smith can be a starter in this league, he just has limitations that require an offense to be designed to his strengths. We're in the middle of the season... not gonna happen.

An offensive line needs to be coached to open passing lanes and keep defenders hands down. Shoot, ours can't even keep three defenders from beating them on the first move every play.

Everyone pray to whatever god you worship or wish for luck or just do whatever people with no faith choose to do... Troy needs all the help he can get. I got no faith, but I'm gonna at least cross my damn fingers. Can't hurt. Unless you're Vince Young. Oh snap.

Originally posted by darkknight49:

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
the more he stays in the pocket, the more batted balls we will see.

Another post about his height. Brees, Vick and Rodgers aren't exactly tall guys either.

Brees does get a lot of balls batted down. Smith has at least two batted down last Sunday.

Alex is 6'4" and gets balls batted all the time

Originally posted by asakkings:
He has a pretty pocket presence, he get less balls batted down than perfect sized Alex Smith. Warner said that he himself is barely 6'2". I looked up a few QBs playing right now: Steve Young, Mark Sanchez, Stafford, Brees, are all 6'2 and under. Its not really the size but the finding of throwing lanes thats important, sure he'll get some balls batted down but long as he can make consistent plays it should be fine.

Has anyone noticed that troy has a very quick drop back, maybe because of his size he learned to drop back very fast so he can see the development of routes before the pocket starts to collapse around him.

Your comment is right on the money. Its about the throwing lanes. You're also right about Alex. I've seen plenty of batted balls from him and he's 6"4.

For Troy to be effective in the pocket, we must open up pass lanes, yes. The OL needs to be able to control individual matchups between OL vs DL. To move them off the LOS +/or turn the DL a particular way. Can't see that happening with our D-bag OL.

Yes, Alex has lots of passes batted down too. Why? Our OL were again horrible at keeping defenders busy enough... so they could just stand there and read the QB's eyes and arm motion. That, and at other times, the penetration from defenders was too immediate and deep... that a QB being 6' 4" no longer mattered.

I did a play by play look at Troy in the Ram game using NFLReplay. I know not all plays where there but all substantial plays were. The results show the perception that he operated outside the pocket to beat the rames and Warners pre game comments, were simply incorrect.

Thru the score at the point of 17-10 rams Roy had only rolled out twice and had to run twice. All other passing plays were from the pocket using a combination of 3,5, and 7 step drops. In the first quarter, after an initial sack and trip at the 3 & 5 step drops he was moved to 7 step drops where he was very effective.

The game go-ahead score in the 4th quarter was 2 passes to Gore , both in pocket followed by a play where he was initially in the pocket and ran forward and to the left to avoid pressure..he connected with Crabtree on that one. The other 3 touchdowns called back were all from the pocket. The overtime pass interference toss was also from the pocket.

So what changed with the Bucs game? Well first we couldn't run. Gore never got going. That eliminated play action and the Bucs excelled at pass defense which was their strong suit allowing only 210 yards passing per game coming in.

I also don't blame Troy for the interception. It was the same play last year that Reggie Smith put on Payton Manning where he saw the quarterback looking at him, he made a move in, Payton thought he was commiting short and thru intermediate ball behind him...but Reggie had faked the commit and instead moved back to intercept the ball. Payton praised Reggie's play after the game. This is exactly what happened to Troy by an excellent defensive back.