Is there anything us fans can do

Throw the FB dive in there too, I was hoping it died with Raye.

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Throw the FB dive in there too, I was hoping it died with Raye.

Well, you need a decent fb for that!

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Throw the FB dive in there too, I was hoping it died with Raye.

Norris doesn't need to be getting the ball at all.

our best bet would be to stop chanting "we want carr" while our starting QB is trying to make a game winning drive, twice! because we all know, we do not really want carr and we are just ruining our QBs confidence mid-game.

1) I think the shotgun draw has actually been relatively effective.

2) EVERY fanbase complains about this play if their team runs it. It stems from a general lack of knowledge about the improbability of converting third and longs, and the need to gain some field position and avoid an interception when the defense has 6 dbs and lineman who don't have to concern themselves with a run.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
1) I think the shotgun draw has actually been relatively effective.

2) EVERY fanbase complains about this play if their team runs it. It stems from a general lack of knowledge about the improbability of converting third and longs, and the need to gain some field position and avoid an interception when the defense has 6 dbs and lineman who don't have to concern themselves with a run.

It CAN be effective, but not if you run that play in that situation more than once a game. I believe when Hearst was playing, it worked really well on 3rd and 10+ because we were known as a passing team.

Today however, everyone knows we run that play at least once a game(I think we run it more than that per game). Not only that, if it is more than 3rd and 6, I think a lot of defenses blitz at least one DB/LB and have their cover DBs in a 4-5 yard cushion to encourage a short pass. Our over use of the 3rd down shot gun draw and a blitzing D is why we usually fall short of a first down with that play.

^^

BTW, I know Hearst didn't get it in a shotgun, but I know we ran draw plays on 3rd and very longs pretty successfully.

Originally posted by cypherninja:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
1) I think the shotgun draw has actually been relatively effective.

2) EVERY fanbase complains about this play if their team runs it. It stems from a general lack of knowledge about the improbability of converting third and longs, and the need to gain some field position and avoid an interception when the defense has 6 dbs and lineman who don't have to concern themselves with a run.

It CAN be effective, but not if you run that play in that situation more than once a game. I believe when Hearst was playing, it worked really well on 3rd and 10+ because we were known as a passing team.

Today however, everyone knows we run that play at least once a game(I think we run it more than that per game). Not only that, if it is more than 3rd and 6, I think a lot of defenses blitz at least one DB/LB and have their cover DBs in a 4-5 yard cushion to encourage a short pass. Our over use of the 3rd down shot gun draw and a blitzing D is why we usually fall short of a first down with that play.

Well yeah, it's one of the major downsides of starting a third string QB who hasn't been with the team for long enough to learn the whole playbook.

We'll of course still see that play pop-up, but we've had success with it, so it was one of the plays that made it into the limited script Smith was going off.

Two other things:

1) We operate out of the shotgun A LOT. The number of traditional running plays (thankfully no Tazer anymore, although T. Smith might be able to bring that back, now that I think about it) out of the shotgun are limited to begin with.

2) Am I mis-remembering, or don't we have two running plays out of the shotgun, not one? Is there the straight draw that we run and then also the play that I think you're talking about which is the power play with the pulling backside guard? I can't remember now. In any case, I think I've seen us run both of those this season. We also run this play (or both) out of both the 1 back and 2 back shotgun sets. Unless you want to get (way too) fancy and try to add a pitch to the shotgun formation, I don't know what other running plays we'd use out of that formation.

relay it to Matt Macchio

It really is a tough situation for everyone because they practiced the Raye "offense" for weeks and weeks with one QB, then a different OC who is running something subtly different so Sing doesn't find out, and now with a QB that Sing did not allow to practice.

This is not a formula for success. Any wins will be because Johnson snuck in some plays when Sing was looking quizzically at the play sheet or playing with his head set, or because of some crazy plays that the talent on this team can sometimes pull out despite things.

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
relay it to Matt Macchio

What's he going to do about it?

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
Throw the FB dive in there too, I was hoping it died with Raye.

Norris doesn't need to be getting the ball at all.

I agree, it disgusts me to see him with the ball considering all the other options available.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by cypherninja:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
1) I think the shotgun draw has actually been relatively effective.

2) EVERY fanbase complains about this play if their team runs it. It stems from a general lack of knowledge about the improbability of converting third and longs, and the need to gain some field position and avoid an interception when the defense has 6 dbs and lineman who don't have to concern themselves with a run.

It CAN be effective, but not if you run that play in that situation more than once a game. I believe when Hearst was playing, it worked really well on 3rd and 10+ because we were known as a passing team.

Today however, everyone knows we run that play at least once a game(I think we run it more than that per game). Not only that, if it is more than 3rd and 6, I think a lot of defenses blitz at least one DB/LB and have their cover DBs in a 4-5 yard cushion to encourage a short pass. Our over use of the 3rd down shot gun draw and a blitzing D is why we usually fall short of a first down with that play.

Well yeah, it's one of the major downsides of starting a third string QB who hasn't been with the team for long enough to learn the whole playbook.

We'll of course still see that play pop-up, but we've had success with it, so it was one of the plays that made it into the limited script Smith was going off.

Two other things:

1) We operate out of the shotgun A LOT. The number of traditional running plays (thankfully no Tazer anymore, although T. Smith might be able to bring that back, now that I think about it) out of the shotgun are limited to begin with.

2) Am I mis-remembering, or don't we have two running plays out of the shotgun, not one? Is there the straight draw that we run and then also the play that I think you're talking about which is the power play with the pulling backside guard? I can't remember now. In any case, I think I've seen us run both of those this season. We also run this play (or both) out of both the 1 back and 2 back shotgun sets. Unless you want to get (way too) fancy and try to add a pitch to the shotgun formation, I don't know what other running plays we'd use out of that formation.

Not sure what the 3rd string QB has to do with it. Do you mean we run a shotgun draw on 3rd downs because T. Smith has a limited playbook? That definitely makes sense.

But we SEEM to do it at least twice a game on 3rd down even if A. Smith is playing. Maybe I feel that way because of Jimmy Raye residue. I still think we overuse it on 3rd down, though. Basically, I guess what I am trying to say is I think people like me are sick of it because it could be used with less frequency on 3rd down because it's effectiveness SEEMS to be worn out no matter who is QBing.

Yes, we do have more than one shotgun rush play. Draw, sweep(pulling guard) and dive is what I have seen. I want to say we have run a toss before, too.