Top 5 Players on Offense and Defense; Plus overrated

Spencer is really underrated. I'd have him at either 3 or 4.

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
O:

1. Frank Gore
2. Vernon Davis
3. Michael Crabtree
4. Eric Heitmann
5. Joe Staley

Overrated and/or Sucks on O:

1. Chilo Rachal
2. David Baas

Underrated:

1. Josh Morgan
2. Nate Byham

Potential:

1. Anthony Dixon
2. Anthony Davis
3. Mike Iupati

D:

1. Patrick Willis
2. Justin Smith
3. Ray McDonald
4. Takeo Spikes
t-5. Manny Lawson
t-5. Nate Clements
t-5. Shawntae Spencer

Overrated and/or Sucks:

1. Parys Haralson
2. Tarell Brown

Underrated:

1. Demetric Evans
2. Ricky Jean Francois

Potential:

1. Taylor Mays
2. Navorro Bowman

Have to disagree about Morgan. I don't think he is underrated. The Niners need to get someone a little more explosive across from Crabtree. At this point I think they would be better served with Ginn or Ziegler.

Morgan's problem, and ours is simple. Morgan and Crabtree are similar receivers, fast but not speed burners, good blockers, not really deep threats, they are possession receivers. Most teams, have a speed guy and possession guy. Ziggy and Ginn are speedsters. So I guess what I'm saying is Ziggy or Ginn should start over Morgan, but Singletary wants the blocking ability that Morgan brings to the table.

Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
I know this is sacrilege, but Frank Gore is overrated, especially on the Zone. Footballoutsiders has him rated 36 out of the top 37 RB's right now. I know, what do they know? Yeah, part of it is bad play calling and a bad O-line.

But he is still overrated.

I'm not sure what you are basing your opinion on...

Frank is 3rd in the league among RB's in yards from scrimmage. As you yourself admit, he isn't exactly playing behind a great offensive line. Not to mention, he doesn't play for a team where he can rack up a bunch of garbage yards, by running out the clock to protect a lead in the 4th quater very often.

Gore is also a fantastic blocker, which often doesn't get the attention it deserves.

Frank's main issue, is what it has been since he came into the league, he puts the ball on the ground too often. And it's a frustrating issue, indeed.

Still, I find it hard to find a reasonable stance that could rate Gore as overrated.

Originally posted by deep2crab:
dude i have no idea what your talking about mcdonald better than clements? i don't care what anyone says clements has been our best defensive player this year.

Although you don't care what anyone says, I think a strong case could be made for Justin Smith as out best defensive player this year.

Originally posted by 49erFan:

Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
I know this is sacrilege, but Frank Gore is overrated, especially on the Zone. Footballoutsiders has him rated 36 out of the top 37 RB's right now. I know, what do they know? Yeah, part of it is bad play calling and a bad O-line.

But he is still overrated.

I'm not sure what you are basing your opinion on...

Frank is 3rd in the league among RB's in yards from scrimmage. As you yourself admit, he isn't exactly playing behind a great offensive line. Not to mention, he doesn't play for a team where he can rack up a bunch of garbage yards, by running out the clock to protect a lead in the 4th quater very often.

Gore is also a fantastic blocker, which often doesn't get the attention it deserves.

Frank's main issue, is what it has been since he came into the league, he puts the ball on the ground too often. And it's a frustrating issue, indeed.

Still, I find it hard to find a reasonable stance that could rate Gore as overrated.

I agree with you about how good he blocks and how often he fumbles. His total yardage is great but his yards/carry is very ordinary, especially without that 64-yard run last week.

Top 5 Offense:
Frank Gore
Vernon Davis
Michael Crabtree
Eric Heitmann (when healthy)
Mike Iupati

Top 5 defense:
Patrick Willis
Justin Smith
Shawntae Spencer
Takeo Spikes
Nate Clements/Taylor Mays/Manny Lawson

Overrated:
Joe Staley (FAR from a franchise LT, he is maybe average at best)
Aubrayo Franklin (was awesome last year, very very average this year)
Dashon Goldson (do people still think he is good?)

Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
I know this is sacrilege, but Frank Gore is overrated, especially on the Zone. Footballoutsiders has him rated 36 out of the top 37 RB's right now. I know, what do they know? Yeah, part of it is bad play calling and a bad O-line.

But he is still overrated.

There is no amount of stats or anything that could EVER convince me that Frank Gore is the 36th best RB. That is f**king nuts, if I were you, I would never ever get any information off "footballoutsiders" clearly they have no clue what they're talking about.

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:

Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
I know this is sacrilege, but Frank Gore is overrated, especially on the Zone. Footballoutsiders has him rated 36 out of the top 37 RB's right now. I know, what do they know? Yeah, part of it is bad play calling and a bad O-line.

But he is still overrated.

There is no amount of stats or anything that could EVER convince me that Frank Gore is the 36th best RB. That is f**king nuts, if I were you, I would never ever get any information off "footballoutsiders" clearly they have no clue what they're talking about.

I'd like to know what they base their ranking off of. Sure Frank isn't having his best year so far, but he still projects out to be a 1,000 yard rusher with an awful lot of receiving yards.

And 36th out of 37th? Please. That's just asinine.

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:

Originally posted by ClassicNiner:
I know this is sacrilege, but Frank Gore is overrated, especially on the Zone. Footballoutsiders has him rated 36 out of the top 37 RB's right now. I know, what do they know? Yeah, part of it is bad play calling and a bad O-line.

But he is still overrated.

There is no amount of stats or anything that could EVER convince me that Frank Gore is the 36th best RB. That is f**king nuts, if I were you, I would never ever get any information off "footballoutsiders" clearly they have no clue what they're talking about.

If you spend enough time on football that you have >15,000 posts, you should take a look at their site. They are far from perfect, but they certainly predicted our division quite well this year: Niners 6-10, Seattle and SL much improved, Arizona worse. Putting Frank 36th is based purely on his performance so far this year; it's a numbers thing with no subjective component involved. I'n not saying that he is the 36th best back in the league, just that he is overrated.

This thread is overrated

Top 3 offense
1. Gore
2. Davis
3. Crabtree

Underrated
1. Smith
2. Ginn
3. Staley

Top 3 defense
1. Willis
2. Smith
3. Franklin

Underrated
1. Clements
2. Mays
3. Lawson

How about this...starting or role player plus strengths and weaknesses and notes

If you were the OC and here is your scouting reports on all players. What type of philosophy would you run and who would you highlight in your game plans?

Offense:
Alex Smith - Positive = Spread, 2-minute offense, redzone production, hard counts & cerebral Needs Experience/Grow = Confidence, pocket-awareness, scrambling Negative = Leadership, ball security & touch passes Notes = Need a proper offensive philosophy and OC, continuity and excellent o-line

Frank Gore - Positive = Vision, instincts, heart, downhill runner between tackles, blocking & finishing Needs Experience/Grow = pass catching (no more bouncing-off-hands INT's), short yardage & fire linemen up more in huddle (show emotion) Negative = very poor lateral and no break-away speed & untimely fumbles Notes = one-dimensional runner allows defense to key in on him and we have too much inexperience on the o-line, out-numbered and the OC doesn't have a Reggie Bush or more complete RB to run laterally to keep defenses honest
Moran Norris - Positive = Good blocking instincts and good in short yardage plays Needs Experience/Grow = On the bench (can’t teach an old dog new tricks) Negative = Can’t catch to save his life, terrible body control and is used way too much in the passing, old, very very slow and one-dimensional

Josh Morgan - Positive = Good blocker down field Needs Experience/Grow = Running proper routes Negative = Effort, won't dive for balls, runs wrong routes, no separation, seems to lack concentration and connection with QB

Michael Crabtree - Positive = Sticky hands, long arms, crisp routes, very quick, confident, shields body well & good RAC Needs Experience/Grow = Getting separation and being more physical at the POC Negative = Not top end or break away speed and can’t stretch the field

Ted Ginn - Positive = Top end speed, hustle, drive, can stretch the field & excellent returner Needs Experience/Grow = In a clearly defined role and catching over the middle Negative = Concentration at times, hands and body type

Vernon Davis - Positive = Physical freak, the TO's of TE's, has all the tools, can catch, block and is the only guy save for Gore and Dvis that plays with some attitude; is one of THE only leaders on the team Needs Experience/Grow = Just needs to be used more properly Negative = Is too competitive at times, pops off, says the wrong things, rubs ppl the wrong way, confrontational but in the end, a "team" guy

Dominique Zeigler - Positive = Quick, gets open on key situations, hustle and effort (diving for balls), & makes the most of his opportunities Needs Experience/Grow = Just needs to be on the field more Negative = Long strider and has trouble separating at times

Joe Staley - Positive = Can be very consistent, quick feet, usually doesn’t have many penalties, have had some great games against premier DE’s, experience & willingness to play hurt Needs Experience/Grow = Needs some bulk (always getting hurt too) Negative = We can’t run to his side (no push and can’t seal edge). Period. And when he’s bad, he’s bad. While he can be consistent he can be consistently bad

Mike Iupati - Positive = Big mauler, great attitude, humble Needs Experience/Grow = Is raw and inexperienced and needs to work on his pulling ability Negative = For his size and strength, he’s stalemate at the LOS at the snap like all of our guys on the line

David Bass - Positive = It seems like he may be the most consistent linemen we have this year which says a lot; good push in short yardage and can pull as well (see long Gore runs) Needs Experience/Grow = This is his first year starting as a center Negative = You’d expect mental lapses, bad snaps (just one), incorrect line calls, helping the wrong man, etc.

Chilo Rachel - Positive = He’s still young and when he’s consistent can play pretty well esp. in run blocking Needs Experience/Grow = He still needs time to grow and in a system that doesn’t put he and the rest of the o-line up against the 8-ball Negative = Many missed assignments, consistent pressure from his side (inside and out), little push, fire, drive, etc.

Anthony Davis - Positive = See above but powerful at sealing the edge for runs off his side and can get to the second level well; plays hard and with some attitude Needs Experience/Grow = See above Negative = Many missed assignments to the outside, constant pressure from he and Staley on Alex with under 2 seconds to throw on many occasions.

Dixon/Westbrook = rarely used

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by jones49:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Overrated
Goldson (needs to go)

Needs to go???

Well maybe saying that is a bit harsh. I haven't seen him do anything this year, at least nothing to warrant the contract he's looking for. I don't think he's even a top 10 safety. We could do worse but I think we could do much better. I'd like to see Reggie Smith get more time.

whoever the secondary coach is needs to teach our safety's and corners to turn around and look for the ball.

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by jones49:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Overrated
Goldson (needs to go)

Needs to go???

Well maybe saying that is a bit harsh. I haven't seen him do anything this year, at least nothing to warrant the contract he's looking for. I don't think he's even a top 10 safety. We could do worse but I think we could do much better. I'd like to see Reggie Smith get more time.

whoever the secondary coach is needs to teach our safety's and corners to turn around and look for the ball.

THIS!!!! If the DB's would do this we would have at least 3 more INT's on defense and 3 less PI penalties.

Originally posted by darkknight49:
This thread is overrated

This thread is overrated?
This forum is over rated, this whole damn website is overrated! You're all over rated!