Does Aubrayo Franklin suck now?

Some good discussion on Franklin in the franchise tag thread also. maybe merge the two

MODS

Not playing the way he did last year. Glad we didn't give him a contract.

I don't know about sucking, but he's surely not playing anywhere close to what he did last year. His long layoff definitely hurt...he came to camp not in playing shape and he doesn't seem to be that much further along now. The Eagles were pushing him around like no team did last year. I think they wasted $7M on him...and should definitely not re-sign the guy. I'm not that big on them trying to re-sign Lawson, either. He's close but no cigar on too many plays...like Sunday night when he had Kolb dead to rights, let him get away and the result was a TD. That just won't get it.

Originally posted by DaveWilcox:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Tough choices. But to be honest, he is, has been and always will be a one-gap NT that relies on quickness and shooting the correct gap. Teams have probably watched tape on him and I wouldn't be surprised if he shoots the same gap every time. O-linemen are literally just riding him out of the play and getting to second level (ask Willis who now is just average). Last year I pointed out that despite a good run defense, we were still something like 17th at stopping the run up the middle. This was masked b/c of Spikes/Willis and the OLB's keying in on the run (since the can't pass rush). He is NOT your wide-bodied 340+ pound NT who can occupy two blockers inside on every play (clog up the middle) AND push the pocket making it difficult for a QB to step up. I mentioned that his no-show would prove one thing - RJF is the same type of player and that Franklin is totally expendable. The difference is that Franklin got paid 7+ million, got to take camp off and has experience in our defense. RJF is younger, has more energy, more drive and seems hungry. Finding 300 pound one-gap NT's is easy. Finding a real NT to anchor your 3-4 is a little harder. It all starts with philosophy!

Excellent observation..Spot on

Ask Ray Lewis what happens when you have a NT that can't occupy blockers. Franklin isn't doing what is needed to from him and it shows. time to see what RJF can do. Throw him in the rotation and see how he performs.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Tough choices. But to be honest, he is, has been and always will be a one-gap NT that relies on quickness and shooting the correct gap. Teams have probably watched tape on him and I wouldn't be surprised if he shoots the same gap every time. O-linemen are literally just riding him out of the play and getting to second level (ask Willis who now is just average). Last year I pointed out that despite a good run defense, we were still something like 17th at stopping the run up the middle. This was masked b/c of Spikes/Willis and the OLB's keying in on the run (since the can't pass rush). He is NOT your wide-bodied 340+ pound NT who can occupy two blockers inside on every play (clog up the middle) AND push the pocket making it difficult for a QB to step up. I mentioned that his no-show would prove one thing - RJF is the same type of player and that Franklin is totally expendable. The difference is that Franklin got paid 7+ million, got to take camp off and has experience in our defense. RJF is younger, has more energy, more drive and seems hungry. Finding 300 pound one-gap NT's is easy. Finding a real NT to anchor your 3-4 is a little harder. It all starts with philosophy!

I have watched him quite a bit this year and I don't know if he ALWAYS goes the same way in a certain situation but it seems like teams are very successful in using his slant to take him out of the way and let the second blocker get to Spikes

Originally posted by backontop:
Ask Ray Lewis what happens when you have a NT that can't occupy blockers. Franklin isn't doing what is needed to from him and it shows. time to see what RJF can do. Throw him in the rotation and see how he performs.

Meh, Franklin definitely isn't playing like last year but I'm not ready to pull him in favor of RJF. He's still decent and has his moments.

Originally posted by jones49:

Originally posted by backontop:
Ask Ray Lewis what happens when you have a NT that can't occupy blockers. Franklin isn't doing what is needed to from him and it shows. time to see what RJF can do. Throw him in the rotation and see how he performs.

Meh, Franklin definitely isn't playing like last year but I'm not ready to pull him in favor of RJF. He's still decent and has his moments.

The point NCommand is making, and I agree with, is that Franklin is a one-gap player who surprised some teams last year by not playing NT in typical two-gap fashion. However, once teams had a chance to look at film of him, they designed blocking schemes to neutralize his quickness. Since he doesn't have the brute strength to play two-gap, it now forces the 49ers to adjust as it has clearly influenced the play of Willis.

RJF is another Franklin, a good DT but not beefy enough to be a two-gap NT.

All this takes us back to a fundamental decision that Sing/Manusky need to make: do they try to make do with Franklin/RJF at NT, or switch up to a 4-3 with them at DT. They don't have the one key element that you must have to play 3-4.

For next season, the HC, whoever that is, will have to make the same choice. Draft a NT or go to 4-3.

[ Edited by dj43 on Oct 13, 2010 at 22:21:31 ]

He doesnt want another Franchise Tag and someone will pay him big bucks in Free Agency based on his 2009 Season. He knows if he has another good season the 9er will just franchise tag him again.

Originally posted by jones49:

Originally posted by backontop:
Ask Ray Lewis what happens when you have a NT that can't occupy blockers. Franklin isn't doing what is needed to from him and it shows. time to see what RJF can do. Throw him in the rotation and see how he performs.

Meh, Franklin definitely isn't playing like last year but I'm not ready to pull him in favor of RJF. He's still decent and has his moments.

I'm not recommending pulling Franklin completely, but get RJF in the rotation a little more. Couldn't be any worse than it is when Franklin is getting pushed all over the field.

Originally posted by Antix:
Thats why you dont pay people off of one good season. We got Ricky Jean plus a draft.

Lawson is outplaying him by far but we have no chance of keeping him b/c a team with playoff potential will pay him a bunch of money. And I mean real potential, not 49er potential.

Lol

Originally posted by dj43:
I have watched him quite a bit this year and I don't know if he ALWAYS goes the same way in a certain situation but it seems like teams are very successful in using his slant to take him out of the way and let the second blocker get to Spikes

Glad to hear someone is watching him closer then I am. I first really noticed it last year but the KC and Philly game exposed him even more. I measure a dline by the amount of pressure they can apply and in short yardage situations and we lose that battle just about every single time right up the gut and have been losing this battle for years now. Seattle was a team exposed up the gut esp. by Gore so they go out and get two fatties and Gore couldn't do anything against them. You are spot on re: the next HC having to decide first and foremost (like Hill was talking about - having CLEAR roles) what our philosophy and then obtain the players to make it work ala Steelers D since the dawn of time.

He doesn't suck, but he's not amazing.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Tough choices. But to be honest, he is, has been and always will be a one-gap NT that relies on quickness and shooting the correct gap. Teams have probably watched tape on him and I wouldn't be surprised if he shoots the same gap every time. O-linemen are literally just riding him out of the play and getting to second level (ask Willis who now is just average). Last year I pointed out that despite a good run defense, we were still something like 17th at stopping the run up the middle. This was masked b/c of Spikes/Willis and the OLB's keying in on the run (since the can't pass rush). He is NOT your wide-bodied 340+ pound NT who can occupy two blockers inside on every play (clog up the middle) AND push the pocket making it difficult for a QB to step up. I mentioned that his no-show would prove one thing - RJF is the same type of player and that Franklin is totally expendable. The difference is that Franklin got paid 7+ million, got to take camp off and has experience in our defense. RJF is younger, has more energy, more drive and seems hungry. Finding 300 pound one-gap NT's is easy. Finding a real NT to anchor your 3-4 is a little harder. It all starts with philosophy!

Smart!

Originally posted by wolfpack52:
He doesnt want another Franchise Tag and someone will pay him big bucks in Free Agency based on his 2009 Season. He knows if he has another good season the 9er will just franchise tag him again.

Whatever...nobody would pay him much now...particularly with our record...