The problem with our offense

Originally posted by Bayerrya:

Originally posted by LeftBankeNiner:
Alex is part of the problem. The O-line has two rookies on it. Did you expect them to be perfect and make no mistakes? We have a QB whose been here for six years and he still makes a lot of mistakes.

No one said be perfect. But the line is consistently letting free guys through to hit Frank and Alex. That shouldnt happen but once, twice per game but it happens once or twice a drive. At minimum. With basic line stunts.

And ill be the first to tell you Alex is part of the problem. But he isnt THE problem.

This is where I disagree... I'm a firm believer in cause and effect... Most of the line problems and poor run issues stem from having a QB that doesn't take advantage of the D stacking the box. We need a QB who can deliver a quick accurate ball to the open guy from the blitzing side consistently. Instead we have the ever so obedient Alex that would rather hold onto the ball too long then throw it away or check down to a covered back for a loss.

Why wouldn't the opposing D want to take advantage of this and continue to stack the box or blitz the run? Frank's their major threat, not Alex...

Originally posted by Bayerrya:
Note: I just posted this in rewatched the game, but i think it deserves its own post.

The problem with this team is not Alex Smith. His teammates would be the first to tell you. The problem with this team is a lack of an offensive philosophy that fits the personnel we have. That, and we have the worst offensive line in the league.
According to footballoutsiders, we have been stuffed in the backfield on only ten percent of our runs, lowest in the league. But our second level, and open field yards are 30 and 29 respectively. That tells me that Frank is outstanding at making something out of nothing and being able to get back to the line of scrimmage but to consistenly get open field and 2nd level yards you need blockers to open up holes and to press up on linebackers. Last year we were 2nd in open field yards, mainly due to how obscenely good Frank was the few times he got in the open field he took the house(see seattle). His 4.7 ypc compared i cant remember off top but around 2 for Coffee shows just how good Frank was last year. We arent getting those plays this year.

Secondly, offensive philosophy. Everyone knows Alex plays better from the spread, as do most qbs. The problem doesnt lie in how much we run the ball, but WHERE we run the ball. We avg 1.74 yards running sweeps left, 7.02 yards running off tackle left, 3.83 yards running from guard to guard, 5.01 yards running off tackle right and 3.01 yards running sweep left. Based off those numbers where to you think we run the ball most? Yep right up the middle. 66% of the time, second highest in the league. And it was 78% before Raye got fired. The league average is 50%. And where do we run least? Off tackle left of course. Even more than we sweep left, 4% n 6% resp. Look at the numbers from 09 and they were even worse. 3.51 ypc up the middle at 71% of the time. With the line we have, we cant run up the middle, yet we try over and over again. To blame Frank or Alex is misplaced, without a decent line, we cant run the sh!t we want to, yet we keep doing it. That is coaching my friends. I like Sing as a motivator. He is by no means and x and o guy and he is completely hands off with the offense. But its his responsibility to hire an offensive coach who can get the job done and he hasnt done that.

I struggled with this all offseason, keep a OC who is terrible or hire another one and have another year without continuity. Well hindsight being what it is, we all know the answer to that one now. I am firmly in the belief with a inventive offensive mind, Alex would be a top 10 quarterback. More than any other Quarterback in the league, even Manning, Alex has to play damn near perfect for us to move the ball. He cant miss any reads, he cant sit in the pocket and wait for something to come open, the line doesnt give him enough time. He would look like Cutler against the NY Giants every week if he wasnt so smart. But he gets criticized for rolling out. If he tries to stay in the pocket he will he injured again. No question. If you want to see a guy take a sack every other play than go ahead and chant for Carr. No qb can play an entire game mistake free, running for his life every other play. Dont know what the numbers are for this year, but last year Alex was pressured on 40 percent of his dropbacks, by far the highest in the league. Im not making excuses for his bonehead mistakes but seriously, look at the rest of the NFL. Other than Manning and Brady every quarterback makes mistakes every week. Other guys are able to pick up the slack tho but the offensive line makes it almost impossible.

The one thing working in our favor is the schedule. Football outsiders has this thing call DVOA. You can look it up for a deeper explanation but basically it charts what each team does in each situation and compares them to the league average to get you a percentage over the average. How this relates to us is, or schedule we have already played is rated 16.3% better than the average. That is over 4% higher than the next closest team. So we have played by FAR the toughest sched in the L so far. Our future sched based on what they have already done this season is -18.0% which means they are 18% worse than the league average. Next closest is KC with 16%. Basically we have played by far the toughest teams so far and have the easiest road the rest of the way out. Granted some of the reason we have played teams with a 16% better than average is due to the fact that we account for 20% of that. But that has nothing to do with how much easier it will be the rest of the way.

There IS hope. Mike J is a bright guy an i already have more faith in him than i did Raye. Alex might be the smartest guy in the whole organization other than Marathe. The key for them is to find the right balance of plays that will get chunk yards, and quick passes, cuz right now we run toooooo many plays that require better blocking than we currently have. The Eagles have the same line problem that we do but inventiveness in playcalling can hide that. Thats what we dont have right now. But Alex is good enough to win in this league. But not by himself. No one but #18 is.

This is all very well stated and I'm a big fan of FO's myself. Here is a fantastic article by MM that supports your points as well:

New OC, but Singletary's fingerprints still on offense

It looks like MS is still ALL over MJ and his gameplan. So, ppl, hold your judgement on MJ. I think the guy wants to break out as badly as AS but once again, a young, inexperienced DEFENSIVE-minded coach is holding back our QB, our offense and ignoring the very foundation this once-great franchise was built on...PASS TO SET UP THE RUN!

Originally posted by tondiman:

Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
Nice post and all but if you can't hold on to the football it doesn't matter who the coach is who the quarterback is or what plays you call.
12 turnovers in three games lost by a combined 8 points! Without so many turnovers this team beats the SB champs and two playoff caliber teams and is sitting at 3-2 tied for the division lead.

Actually it DOES matter who the quarterback is and who the coach is because if they weren't singletary or smith, these turnovers wouldn't have happened.

Right, because Smith is the only QB in this league that throws INTs and coughs up the ball.

The only part of the writeup I disagree with is the claim that Singletary is hands off with the offense.

During the game itself he doesn't do crap....we know that. He just stands there silently and lets his coordinators run the team for him.

But his handprints are all over the offense and playcalling. It's basically low-risk (and low reward) wussy ball on both sides of the field.

OFFENSE
He wants a run-oriented, possession based offense which requires a high level of execution with little margin for error. Only problem, he doesn't have the personnel to run this nor the quality of personnel who can play mistake free ball for the long periods of possession time needed for this approach to be successful.

DEFENSE
He wants a safe, non-risk taking 3-4 type defense which plays soft zones and sound positional D while stopping the run. Fine. Part of this defense's success is predicated on getting off the field quickly. Only problem, they can't stop the run, they can't tackle, and soft zone exposes huge seams for the QB to exploit since the Niners can generate essentially no pass rush with just typical 3-4 man rush.

I thought Solari and Ray Brown were going to fix things

The problem with our offense is that it's afraid of the ball and would rather defer to the defense.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by AiNoKea:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by AiNoKea:

Originally posted by Bayerrya:

Originally posted by LeftBankeNiner:
Alex is part of the problem. The O-line has two rookies on it. Did you expect them to be perfect and make no mistakes? We have a QB whose been here for six years and he still makes a lot of mistakes.

No one said be perfect. But the line is consistently letting free guys through to hit Frank and Alex. That shouldnt happen but once, twice per game but it happens once or twice a drive. At minimum. With basic line stunts.

And ill be the first to tell you Alex is part of the problem. But he isnt THE problem.

Of course Alex Smith isn't THEE problem, but he sure does contribute a lot to why we lose. I'd rather just move on with a new QB and possibly new HC.

POSSIBLY a new HC? Did you read any of his post? Our entire philosophy and strategy is JACKED UP. We are doing the exact opposite of what we should be doing, it's clear as day.

Yes it basically analyzes our O-line and play-calling/offensive philosophy and continues to say Alex Smith isn't the problem.

I've read these types of post' since he was drafted....seriously time to move on.

Smith is always an All-Star in TC till we get to the regular season, then after that its everyone's fault.

Eh it's both Alex and Sing. I don't think Alex will ever be great, but I do think he'll go to a team like MN after Favre retires and do decent under a good offensive HC and throwing to weapons like Moss/Harvin/Rice. He's better than their alternative like Tarvaris Jackson. But he doesn't have the consistent competitive fire to carry a team. He only turns it on when he's so pressured and it's too late for us to do anything. It's more like a pilot light. Sing just kills us f**king around with the offense, he needs to do what Steve Young said and GTFO. Heck, even if we were to pull some miraculous comeback, he needs to leave. He has no idea about x's and o's and he doesn't know how to gameplan or be organized and he doesn't know how to spot talent.

Bottom line, and I've been saying it since our season started unraveling. We NEED a return to the WCO, and we need an offensive HC like a JOhn Gruden. With the WCO and an offensive HC, it won't matter who the coordinator is because there will always be continuity with the language in the system and if worse comes to worse the HC can call the plays. Then the QB doesn't have to worry about any of the stuff that ruined Smith or plagued Hill such as different systems, vanilla play calling, no shots down the field at times, fear of turning the ball over, recievers running wrong routes, etc. We need a HC that can mentor a QB and manufacture wins.

Look at what Gruden did in TB, even when that team got old and started falling apart he got them to the playoffs by plugging in guys like Jeff Garcia at 38 years old and Antonio Bryant or Michael Clayton. He didn't half any of the weapons we do except some decent RBs and they still scored points without turning the ball over, they still marched the ball down the field, they still got yards on the ground, and they still made it to the playoffs multiple times. Mooch did similar things when he was here. And the coach needs to be an experienced head coach with credibility also.

Now this post I can agree with!!!!

If Smith goes to another team and does great, fine, no loss for me. I'd just rather start over, a new HC and new QB. With Sing here and Smith, it just makes me feel like we're still in the Nolan era. Its like San Diego, they let Brees walk, turned the reigns over to a new QB and new HC, Brees is happy the Chargers are happy and everybody wins. I feel we should do the same, and exactly how you said it, go back to the WCO, or go back to an offensive coach.

My vote = Mike Murlarkey

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Bayerrya:

Originally posted by LeftBankeNiner:
Alex is part of the problem. The O-line has two rookies on it. Did you expect them to be perfect and make no mistakes? We have a QB whose been here for six years and he still makes a lot of mistakes.

No one said be perfect. But the line is consistently letting free guys through to hit Frank and Alex. That shouldnt happen but once, twice per game but it happens once or twice a drive. At minimum. With basic line stunts.

And ill be the first to tell you Alex is part of the problem. But he isnt THE problem.

This is where I disagree... I'm a firm believer in cause and effect... Most of the line problems and poor run issues stem from having a QB that doesn't take advantage of the D stacking the box. We need a QB who can deliver a quick accurate ball to the open guy from the blitzing side consistently. Instead we have the ever so obedient Alex that would rather hold onto the ball too long then throw it away or check down to a covered back for a loss.

Why wouldn't the opposing D want to take advantage of this and continue to stack the box or blitz the run? Frank's their major threat, not Alex...

another excellent point you made that I have made before also-----why does our QB face so much pressure---the O line can't be that bad---it is because we don't make the defense pay a price for their aggressiveness---if we do--they will back off some--and the running lanes will also be better.

we keep drafing top picks on the o line and the pressure keeps coming---cause and effect---we see the effect---there has to be a cause.

Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Bayerrya:

Originally posted by LeftBankeNiner:
Alex is part of the problem. The O-line has two rookies on it. Did you expect them to be perfect and make no mistakes? We have a QB whose been here for six years and he still makes a lot of mistakes.

No one said be perfect. But the line is consistently letting free guys through to hit Frank and Alex. That shouldnt happen but once, twice per game but it happens once or twice a drive. At minimum. With basic line stunts.

And ill be the first to tell you Alex is part of the problem. But he isnt THE problem.

This is where I disagree... I'm a firm believer in cause and effect... Most of the line problems and poor run issues stem from having a QB that doesn't take advantage of the D stacking the box. We need a QB who can deliver a quick accurate ball to the open guy from the blitzing side consistently. Instead we have the ever so obedient Alex that would rather hold onto the ball too long then throw it away or check down to a covered back for a loss.

Why wouldn't the opposing D want to take advantage of this and continue to stack the box or blitz the run? Frank's their major threat, not Alex...

another excellent point you made that I have made before also-----why does our QB face so much pressure---the O line can't be that bad---it is because we don't make the defense pay a price for their aggressiveness---if we do--they will back off some--and the running lanes will also be better.

we keep drafing top picks on the o line and the pressure keeps coming---cause and effect---we see the effect---there has to be a cause.

It also depends on his decision making but these decisions I will mention are made by more savvy QBs, phenoms, or veteran QBs:

1. Throw incomplete on purpose
2. Don't miss open receivers
3. Take the sack

Alex did #3 more in the past but he just hasn't made good decisions when there has been pressure. Not just this game. Even last game when he got the intentional grounding and the prayer flip to Gore that resulted in an INT.

Man, if we can focus on not fumbling or turning it over, we get a win.

Originally posted by tondiman:

Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
Nice post and all but if you can't hold on to the football it doesn't matter who the coach is who the quarterback is or what plays you call.
12 turnovers in three games lost by a combined 8 points! Without so many turnovers this team beats the SB champs and two playoff caliber teams and is sitting at 3-2 tied for the division lead.

Actually it DOES matter who the quarterback is and who the coach is because if they weren't singletary or smith, these turnovers wouldn't have happened.

I believe I see your point with this post but respectfully disagree - regardless of the play, the ballcarrier has every opportunity to secure the ball, even if that means taking a sack or being tackled for a loss. Yes, calling the correct play at the correct time does setup players for success, but physically holding on to the ball can occur regardless what play is called. If we execute properly turnovers shouldn't happen.

Originally posted by Giggidy:

Originally posted by tondiman:

Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
Nice post and all but if you can't hold on to the football it doesn't matter who the coach is who the quarterback is or what plays you call.
12 turnovers in three games lost by a combined 8 points! Without so many turnovers this team beats the SB champs and two playoff caliber teams and is sitting at 3-2 tied for the division lead.

Actually it DOES matter who the quarterback is and who the coach is because if they weren't singletary or smith, these turnovers wouldn't have happened.

I believe I see your point with this post but respectfully disagree - regardless of the play, the ballcarrier has every opportunity to secure the ball, even if that means taking a sack or being tackled for a loss. Yes, calling the correct play at the correct time does setup players for success, but physically holding on to the ball can occur regardless what play is called. If we execute properly turnovers shouldn't happen.

Every offensive player has control over ball protection unless they are being blindsided and have no idea the ball is going to get hit. We really haven't been in that situation.

WE have control over our own turnovers and that needs to be corrected first.

WE don't have as much control over forcing another offense to turn it over so why focus on that first?

Gore has fumbled the ball quite a few times over the years---and cost us games--that was not something new or rare.

Smith
Gore
Delanie walker

those are the three main turnover guys on the niner offense

Crabtree was looking to join them--but seems to have recovered.

Creepy:

11 Alex Smith, SF 118 190 62.1 1229 6.47 6 9 10 61 71.6
12 Shaun Hill, Det 118 193 61.1 1218 6.31 8 7 8 48 78.0

The problem with the offense is inconsistent line play, rookies not playing well and getting beat by stunts like a rented mule. That is why Gore and Smith are struggling, it isn't rocket science, I do not understand why it isn't plain to see.

Let's do something simple first which is controlling our turnovers. Who knows, then the other fixes may not appear so major and we can work fine tuning rather than big changes.