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Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Davis needs to be placed in a situation for success. Being saddled next to Rachal is a big, big problem. I think he has a chance to be very good, but the team has to address the RG spot in camp, and get that settled. Heitmann's loss is huge, as it limits the team's options in 2011.
Maddog, were've you been? I have to admit, I've missed your pompus ass...
Originally posted by xcfan:Originally posted by Memphis9er:Originally posted by xcfan:
davis was the wrong pick. it was clear back then that he had big athletic shortcomings as an elite-level pass protector (which you have to be in the nfl). he just cannot move well in that dept.. 49er mistake.
one thing davis is...is strong and ornery on the field. he is suited to play guard.
sorry we have to pay him so much, but he is a brawler, not a skilled pass pro guy; never will be. he lacks lateral-movement athleticism befitting a nfl tackle.
if we move him to RG, we will have the best young OG tandem in the league.
All the draft experts at the time of the draft were saying how he had the most upside and best athletic ability of any of the tackles in the draft, but was young and raw.
there is one area where he does not show great athleticism: explosive, balanced lateral movement--kick slide. he is average at best in that dept.. it showed before the draft, so the so-called draft experts who didn't point that out are not so expert.
davis has to bend and reach too much, when he should be dropping and sliding;
but he physically (athletically) can't do it.
he moves fine in a linear fashion, and performs well when he has to get to the opponent by moving forward.
if his ability to pass protect on the edge matched all his other talents, he'd be well worth his high pick. but he was a 3rd round pass blocker all along.
from the workouts you could see that saffold and veldheer were so much better--i mean MILES better--at kick sliding and being in a position of strength to take on the rusher than davis.
we should've traded the pick and moved into the late 1st round, then drafted saffold.
imo, saffold had the best hips and lateral movement in the whole OL draft, and proved it...the so-called draft experts seemed to miss that too. i guess he didn't come from the right school. or, we coulda drafted veldheer in the 2nd rd.--talk about upside...did you see his kick slide drills? he roasted everybody. the guy's gonna be an all-pro OT in a few years; he just needs to adjust to the nfl. heck, we could've drafted davis as a guard in the late 1st if he was there--we did really need two guards since rachel isn't a worthy starter.
so, davis is a great guard prospect. we blew the pick. the proof is in the pudding.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Davis needs to be placed in a situation for success. Being saddled next to Rachal is a big, big problem. I think he has a chance to be very good, but the team has to address the RG spot in camp, and get that settled. Heitmann's loss is huge, as it limits the team's options in 2011.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:Originally posted by xcfan:Originally posted by Memphis9er:Originally posted by xcfan:
davis was the wrong pick. it was clear back then that he had big athletic shortcomings as an elite-level pass protector (which you have to be in the nfl). he just cannot move well in that dept.. 49er mistake.
one thing davis is...is strong and ornery on the field. he is suited to play guard.
sorry we have to pay him so much, but he is a brawler, not a skilled pass pro guy; never will be. he lacks lateral-movement athleticism befitting a nfl tackle.
if we move him to RG, we will have the best young OG tandem in the league.
All the draft experts at the time of the draft were saying how he had the most upside and best athletic ability of any of the tackles in the draft, but was young and raw.
there is one area where he does not show great athleticism: explosive, balanced lateral movement--kick slide. he is average at best in that dept.. it showed before the draft, so the so-called draft experts who didn't point that out are not so expert.
davis has to bend and reach too much, when he should be dropping and sliding;
but he physically (athletically) can't do it.
he moves fine in a linear fashion, and performs well when he has to get to the opponent by moving forward.
if his ability to pass protect on the edge matched all his other talents, he'd be well worth his high pick. but he was a 3rd round pass blocker all along.
from the workouts you could see that saffold and veldheer were so much better--i mean MILES better--at kick sliding and being in a position of strength to take on the rusher than davis.
we should've traded the pick and moved into the late 1st round, then drafted saffold.
imo, saffold had the best hips and lateral movement in the whole OL draft, and proved it...the so-called draft experts seemed to miss that too. i guess he didn't come from the right school. or, we coulda drafted veldheer in the 2nd rd.--talk about upside...did you see his kick slide drills? he roasted everybody. the guy's gonna be an all-pro OT in a few years; he just needs to adjust to the nfl. heck, we could've drafted davis as a guard in the late 1st if he was there--we did really need two guards since rachel isn't a worthy starter.
so, davis is a great guard prospect. we blew the pick. the proof is in the pudding.
So move Davis inside to RG and put Boone at RT.
That leaves Snyder to backup, or start at C if Baas doesn't resign. We'd probably have to resign Sims as the swing tackle as well.
Davis, like Mays, appears to be a tremendous physical specimen that Singletary fell in love with (making Baalke move up in the draft to get him), irrespective of their football skills. Now its up to the new staff to get the most out of those guys.
Leaving Davis on an island at RT (with Rachel next to him at RG) seems like the worst idea. Either get him some support at RG (Snyder?) or move him inside.
Biggest mistake Singletary made as HC, drafting two OL in the first round, then starting them and expecting them to immediately perform at a high level. If he had stuck with what he had the year before--or maybe just added Iupati--the team might not have started 0-5 last year. And we'd still be stuck with Singletary at HC. IMHO.
Harbaugh's biggest task early on will be to sort out an OL that's been in disarray for years, and the root cause of many of the team's problems since Nolan was hired as HC. IMHO.
Originally posted by 5280High:Originally posted by oldninerdude:Originally posted by xcfan:Originally posted by Memphis9er:Originally posted by xcfan:
davis was the wrong pick. it was clear back then that he had big athletic shortcomings as an elite-level pass protector (which you have to be in the nfl). he just cannot move well in that dept.. 49er mistake.
one thing davis is...is strong and ornery on the field. he is suited to play guard.
sorry we have to pay him so much, but he is a brawler, not a skilled pass pro guy; never will be. he lacks lateral-movement athleticism befitting a nfl tackle.
if we move him to RG, we will have the best young OG tandem in the league.
All the draft experts at the time of the draft were saying how he had the most upside and best athletic ability of any of the tackles in the draft, but was young and raw.
there is one area where he does not show great athleticism: explosive, balanced lateral movement--kick slide. he is average at best in that dept.. it showed before the draft, so the so-called draft experts who didn't point that out are not so expert.
davis has to bend and reach too much, when he should be dropping and sliding;
but he physically (athletically) can't do it.
he moves fine in a linear fashion, and performs well when he has to get to the opponent by moving forward.
if his ability to pass protect on the edge matched all his other talents, he'd be well worth his high pick. but he was a 3rd round pass blocker all along.
from the workouts you could see that saffold and veldheer were so much better--i mean MILES better--at kick sliding and being in a position of strength to take on the rusher than davis.
we should've traded the pick and moved into the late 1st round, then drafted saffold.
imo, saffold had the best hips and lateral movement in the whole OL draft, and proved it...the so-called draft experts seemed to miss that too. i guess he didn't come from the right school. or, we coulda drafted veldheer in the 2nd rd.--talk about upside...did you see his kick slide drills? he roasted everybody. the guy's gonna be an all-pro OT in a few years; he just needs to adjust to the nfl. heck, we could've drafted davis as a guard in the late 1st if he was there--we did really need two guards since rachel isn't a worthy starter.
so, davis is a great guard prospect. we blew the pick. the proof is in the pudding.
So move Davis inside to RG and put Boone at RT.
That leaves Snyder to backup, or start at C if Baas doesn't resign. We'd probably have to resign Sims as the swing tackle as well.
Davis, like Mays, appears to be a tremendous physical specimen that Singletary fell in love with (making Baalke move up in the draft to get him), irrespective of their football skills. Now its up to the new staff to get the most out of those guys.
Leaving Davis on an island at RT (with Rachel next to him at RG) seems like the worst idea. Either get him some support at RG (Snyder?) or move him inside.
Biggest mistake Singletary made as HC, drafting two OL in the first round, then starting them and expecting them to immediately perform at a high level. If he had stuck with what he had the year before--or maybe just added Iupati--the team might not have started 0-5 last year. And we'd still be stuck with Singletary at HC. IMHO.
Harbaugh's biggest task early on will be to sort out an OL that's been in disarray for years, and the root cause of many of the team's problems since Nolan was hired as HC. IMHO.
Put Snyder at RG, problem solved...
Love the enthusiasm for Boone, but even if Davis was moved inside to RG (doubtful) there is no way Boone (a UFA who has yet to start a game) starts in place of Snyder. Rather he would step in as the main swing tackle backup.
At this point the best/safest line up is Staley-Iupati-Baas-Snyder-Davis. Putting Davis next to a Vet who has learned to play every position on the line will pay dividends.
Originally posted by 5280High:Originally posted by oldninerdude:Originally posted by xcfan:Originally posted by Memphis9er:Originally posted by xcfan:
davis was the wrong pick. it was clear back then that he had big athletic shortcomings as an elite-level pass protector (which you have to be in the nfl). he just cannot move well in that dept.. 49er mistake.
one thing davis is...is strong and ornery on the field. he is suited to play guard.
sorry we have to pay him so much, but he is a brawler, not a skilled pass pro guy; never will be. he lacks lateral-movement athleticism befitting a nfl tackle.
if we move him to RG, we will have the best young OG tandem in the league.
All the draft experts at the time of the draft were saying how he had the most upside and best athletic ability of any of the tackles in the draft, but was young and raw.
there is one area where he does not show great athleticism: explosive, balanced lateral movement--kick slide. he is average at best in that dept.. it showed before the draft, so the so-called draft experts who didn't point that out are not so expert.
davis has to bend and reach too much, when he should be dropping and sliding;
but he physically (athletically) can't do it.
he moves fine in a linear fashion, and performs well when he has to get to the opponent by moving forward.
if his ability to pass protect on the edge matched all his other talents, he'd be well worth his high pick. but he was a 3rd round pass blocker all along.
from the workouts you could see that saffold and veldheer were so much better--i mean MILES better--at kick sliding and being in a position of strength to take on the rusher than davis.
we should've traded the pick and moved into the late 1st round, then drafted saffold.
imo, saffold had the best hips and lateral movement in the whole OL draft, and proved it...the so-called draft experts seemed to miss that too. i guess he didn't come from the right school. or, we coulda drafted veldheer in the 2nd rd.--talk about upside...did you see his kick slide drills? he roasted everybody. the guy's gonna be an all-pro OT in a few years; he just needs to adjust to the nfl. heck, we could've drafted davis as a guard in the late 1st if he was there--we did really need two guards since rachel isn't a worthy starter.
so, davis is a great guard prospect. we blew the pick. the proof is in the pudding.
So move Davis inside to RG and put Boone at RT.
That leaves Snyder to backup, or start at C if Baas doesn't resign. We'd probably have to resign Sims as the swing tackle as well.
Davis, like Mays, appears to be a tremendous physical specimen that Singletary fell in love with (making Baalke move up in the draft to get him), irrespective of their football skills. Now its up to the new staff to get the most out of those guys.
Leaving Davis on an island at RT (with Rachel next to him at RG) seems like the worst idea. Either get him some support at RG (Snyder?) or move him inside.
Biggest mistake Singletary made as HC, drafting two OL in the first round, then starting them and expecting them to immediately perform at a high level. If he had stuck with what he had the year before--or maybe just added Iupati--the team might not have started 0-5 last year. And we'd still be stuck with Singletary at HC. IMHO.
Harbaugh's biggest task early on will be to sort out an OL that's been in disarray for years, and the root cause of many of the team's problems since Nolan was hired as HC. IMHO.
Put Snyder at RG, problem solved...
Love the enthusiasm for Boone, but even if Davis was moved inside to RG (doubtful) there is no way Boone (a UFA who has yet to start a game) starts in place of Snyder. Rather he would step in as the main swing tackle backup.
At this point the best/safest line up is Staley-Iupati-Baas-Snyder-Davis. Putting Davis next to a Vet who has learned to play every position on the line will pay dividends.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:Originally posted by 5280High:Originally posted by oldninerdude:Originally posted by xcfan:Originally posted by Memphis9er:Originally posted by xcfan:
davis was the wrong pick. it was clear back then that he had big athletic shortcomings as an elite-level pass protector (which you have to be in the nfl). he just cannot move well in that dept.. 49er mistake.
one thing davis is...is strong and ornery on the field. he is suited to play guard.
sorry we have to pay him so much, but he is a brawler, not a skilled pass pro guy; never will be. he lacks lateral-movement athleticism befitting a nfl tackle.
if we move him to RG, we will have the best young OG tandem in the league.
All the draft experts at the time of the draft were saying how he had the most upside and best athletic ability of any of the tackles in the draft, but was young and raw.
there is one area where he does not show great athleticism: explosive, balanced lateral movement--kick slide. he is average at best in that dept.. it showed before the draft, so the so-called draft experts who didn't point that out are not so expert.
davis has to bend and reach too much, when he should be dropping and sliding;
but he physically (athletically) can't do it.
he moves fine in a linear fashion, and performs well when he has to get to the opponent by moving forward.
if his ability to pass protect on the edge matched all his other talents, he'd be well worth his high pick. but he was a 3rd round pass blocker all along.
from the workouts you could see that saffold and veldheer were so much better--i mean MILES better--at kick sliding and being in a position of strength to take on the rusher than davis.
we should've traded the pick and moved into the late 1st round, then drafted saffold.
imo, saffold had the best hips and lateral movement in the whole OL draft, and proved it...the so-called draft experts seemed to miss that too. i guess he didn't come from the right school. or, we coulda drafted veldheer in the 2nd rd.--talk about upside...did you see his kick slide drills? he roasted everybody. the guy's gonna be an all-pro OT in a few years; he just needs to adjust to the nfl. heck, we could've drafted davis as a guard in the late 1st if he was there--we did really need two guards since rachel isn't a worthy starter.
so, davis is a great guard prospect. we blew the pick. the proof is in the pudding.
So move Davis inside to RG and put Boone at RT.
That leaves Snyder to backup, or start at C if Baas doesn't resign. We'd probably have to resign Sims as the swing tackle as well.
Davis, like Mays, appears to be a tremendous physical specimen that Singletary fell in love with (making Baalke move up in the draft to get him), irrespective of their football skills. Now its up to the new staff to get the most out of those guys.
Leaving Davis on an island at RT (with Rachel next to him at RG) seems like the worst idea. Either get him some support at RG (Snyder?) or move him inside.
Biggest mistake Singletary made as HC, drafting two OL in the first round, then starting them and expecting them to immediately perform at a high level. If he had stuck with what he had the year before--or maybe just added Iupati--the team might not have started 0-5 last year. And we'd still be stuck with Singletary at HC. IMHO.
Harbaugh's biggest task early on will be to sort out an OL that's been in disarray for years, and the root cause of many of the team's problems since Nolan was hired as HC. IMHO.
Put Snyder at RG, problem solved...
Love the enthusiasm for Boone, but even if Davis was moved inside to RG (doubtful) there is no way Boone (a UFA who has yet to start a game) starts in place of Snyder. Rather he would step in as the main swing tackle backup.
At this point the best/safest line up is Staley-Iupati-Baas-Snyder-Davis. Putting Davis next to a Vet who has learned to play every position on the line will pay dividends.
I agree with you. Putting Snyder at RG seems like the surest fix. And working Boone in as the swing tackle this year seems wise as well.
Staley-Iupati-Baas-Snyder-Davis, with Boone at swing tackle, and Rachal backing up the guard spots? Snyder to backup at the C position if need be. Kilgore, Person and maybe FA Beeler--the Stanford guy--to round out the list? That roster is talented, strong and athletic, but a little thin on experience. IMHO.
Harbaugh had success at Stanford behind an experienced, well coached OL that was adept at shifts and adjustments. The Niner's OL is the group that has the most to prove and also has the most potential, IMHO. I look forward to seeing them in action.
Quote:
Sando: "We'll see how much they like their rookie interior offensive linemen. Heitmann is out, Baas needs to be re-signed, Rachal probably starts, I would think. Might they be in the market for an interior offensive lineman? Mike Solari coached Chris Spencer and Sean Locklear in Seattle. Doesn't mean he likes them or would want to sign them, but it is a connection."
Originally posted by xcfan:I am always surprised when I read what is otherwise a pretty insightful post but goes in completely the other direction on the key issue.Originally posted by Memphis9er:Originally posted by xcfan:
davis was the wrong pick. it was clear back then that he had big athletic shortcomings as an elite-level pass protector (which you have to be in the nfl). he just cannot move well in that dept.. 49er mistake.
one thing davis is...is strong and ornery on the field. he is suited to play guard.
sorry we have to pay him so much, but he is a brawler, not a skilled pass pro guy; never will be. he lacks lateral-movement athleticism befitting a nfl tackle.
if we move him to RG, we will have the best young OG tandem in the league.
All the draft experts at the time of the draft were saying how he had the most upside and best athletic ability of any of the tackles in the draft, but was young and raw.
there is one area where he does not show great athleticism: explosive, balanced lateral movement--kick slide. he is average at best in that dept.. it showed before the draft, so the so-called draft experts who didn't point that out are not so expert.
davis has to bend and reach too much, when he should be dropping and sliding;
but he physically (athletically) can't do it.
he moves fine in a linear fashion, and performs well when he has to get to the opponent by moving forward.
if his ability to pass protect on the edge matched all his other talents, he'd be well worth his high pick. but he was a 3rd round pass blocker all along.
from the workouts you could see that saffold and veldheer were so much better--i mean MILES better--at kick sliding and being in a position of strength to take on the rusher than davis.
we should've traded the pick and moved into the late 1st round, then drafted saffold.
imo, saffold had the best hips and lateral movement in the whole OL draft, and proved it...the so-called draft experts seemed to miss that too. i guess he didn't come from the right school. or, we coulda drafted veldheer in the 2nd rd.--talk about upside...did you see his kick slide drills? he roasted everybody. the guy's gonna be an all-pro OT in a few years; he just needs to adjust to the nfl. heck, we could've drafted davis as a guard in the late 1st if he was there--we did really need two guards since rachel isn't a worthy starter.
so, davis is a great guard prospect. we blew the pick. the proof is in the pudding.
Originally posted by dj43:
Davis' biggest problem last year was he lacked the strength to handle a bull rush. OTOH, when he faced a guy that used speed and quickness, like Clay Matthews, he stoned him. Good footwork is Davis' greatest asset right now.
Originally posted by dj43:
With hopefully having spent some solid time in the weight room over the offseason, he should be much stronger and better able to handle power rushes.
Also, as MD noted, he was often appeared confused by not having a reliable RG playing next to him.
Originally posted by oldman9er:IMO, when he appeared to lack quickness was when he started "leaning" too hard or too early in an attempt to make up for his lack of strength. When that happened there was no way he could get back on balance and move his feet. OTOH, when he stayed more centered he was able to stay in front of his opponent quite well. Just my observation and the season will tell but that was the way I viewed it.Originally posted by dj43:
Davis' biggest problem last year was he lacked the strength to handle a bull rush. OTOH, when he faced a guy that used speed and quickness, like Clay Matthews, he stoned him. Good footwork is Davis' greatest asset right now.
Eh... while he did have troubles with bull rushers, he more so had problems with quickness. He showed very poor recovery quickness. I kept reading how athletic he was... even watched about half of the Rutgers games his last season and he looked good at LT in pass pro for his size. Still... he was much, much, slower at RT in year 1 for us. If he got faked one way, he was not good at recovering.
Originally posted by dj43:
With hopefully having spent some solid time in the weight room over the offseason, he should be much stronger and better able to handle power rushes.
Also, as MD noted, he was often appeared confused by not having a reliable RG playing next to him.
Truth