Starters Report Card for 2009 Season By Meccaniner

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
stopped reading the post when i saw willis doesn't even get an A and he's the best in the game.

Thread: F (ignorance)

Why hasn't meccaniner been banned yet??? Where the f**k are the Mods??

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by RonMexico:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by meccaniner:
Defense
Shawntae Spencer A-
Justin Smith B+
Patrick Willis B+ Hes compared to Ray Lewis in his prime...didnt play to that level
Dashon Goldson B
Aubrayo Franklin B
Manny Lawson B-
Issac Sopoaga C
Takeo Spikes C
Parys Haralson D
Michael Lewis D
Nate Clements F

Offense
Vernon Davis A Fulfilling his God given potential
Michael Crabtree B ...Future niner Star
Alex Smith C+.....The Phoenix has risen
Frank Gore C.....Time to draft replacement?
Moran Morris D ...he plays ?....not a factor


Josh Morgan D...... Not a starting caliber Wr...Hill should start
Joe Staley D Disappointing performance and injury
David Bass D
Eric Heitmann D A constant liability for 6+years
Chilo Rachal D ....Will get better
Adam Snyder F..... Complete failure

LOL FAIL.

VD is an A? led the NFL in penalties AND drops, and was a poor blocker.

Gore is a C? he ran for 1100 yds and scored 13 td's in a passing offensive with horrible run blocking.

Justin Smith is a B+? he was statistically the BEST DE in the NFL this year. didnt know that was only good for a B+...

Willis a B+? again, being the best ILB in the NFL is apparently not good enough...

Dashon Goldson B? he was statistically the WORST cover S in the NFL. the WORST. and he missed alot of tackles.

Takeo Spikes C-? he was statistically a top 5 ILB this season.

Parys Haralson a D-? 6 sacks, 10 qb hits, 27 qb hurries. one of the better pass rushing 3-4 OLBs....

Eric Heitmann a D? hes our only solid run and pass blocking OL. look at the stats dude, hes not top 10, but hes top 15. been so for years. hes a very solid NFL C.

what does this tell us? you know NOTHING about this team, and did NO statistical research whatsoever. you just made yourself look awful dude. lost any credibility.

Vernon Davis? A poor blocker? I think the OP has given you whatever sickness he has.

Davis blocks like an Olineman and is known as the best blocking TE in the league. He made 2nd/3rd alternate in the pro bowl in 2008 based on his blocking alone.

actually he was a terrible blocker last season. look at the stats dude. what are you basing his blocking talent on? the fact that sing said he was good in 2008?

he was a bad pass blocker and a HORRIBLE run blocker last year. best blocker in the league? think again.

Jim Kleinsasser is the best pass blocking TE in the NFL, and Anthony Fasano is the best run blocker. and its not close. VD isnt anywhere near that. he was "decent" in 08 at run blocking, and mediocre at pass blocking. he got the pro bowl alternate spot because he was a talented, popular TE who didnt suck at blocking, and had this blocking "hype" made up about him. but that was 08, and this is supposed to be 09 grades.

he didn't have any blocking hype coming out of college

did it come out of no where for no reason?

also he showed no receiving talent and wasn't popular outside of 49er fans the year he was a probowl alternate

dude, the proof is in the stats. he literally WASNT a good blocker this year. and he was only a "decent" blocker last year, when his receiving role was reduced TO block.

obviously this season he didnt focus on blocking as much as years past, but when he did block this year, he wasnt good. in fact, he was one of the very worst run blocking TE in the NFL in 2009.

Mike Singletary said his blocking had greatly "improved" in 2008, and it created a false sense that VD was actually an elite blocker, which he isnt. never has been. as soon as he started seeing the ball more often, and scoring TD's, his blocking role reduced, and so did his blocking productivity.

Okay, show us your 'stats'. Where exactly can you quantify your assessment and compare/contrast them with the TEs you mentioned.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

That's full of crap! That looks like a bunch of made-up numbers. Give me a break. Are you honestly saying that you would have 30+ other TEs OVER Vernon Davis? Are you seriously saying that Delanie Walker (and 30+ other TEs) is a better TE than Davis based on this?! Really?!

Do me a favor and watch the Miami game last year. Vernon played Joey Porter to a standstill... basically neutralized him. Watch some games this year where he totally set the edge while blocking.

These numbers don't mean $h!t. If numbers were really the case then we should not have picked Jerry Rice because of his 4.6 40 speed because his numbers would just be too slow as a wideout.

You believe whatever you believe, but using this to back up your claim is really weak.

Yeah I'm not sure these guys know what they're looking at when they grade players. For instance they grade Adrian Peterson out as the 17th HB overall and Asomugha as the 17th CB overall . . . but hey, numbers don't lie right?

I swear, this guy thinks that site is the football bible. That site lacks credibility with all those numbers that don't explain anything and give true allpro players bad 'scores'. I've stopped arguing with him since I perused that site. It's useless to argue with people with skewed views of the truth.

Originally posted by DarthNiner:

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by RonMexico:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by DarthNiner:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by meccaniner:
Defense
Shawntae Spencer A-
Justin Smith B+
Patrick Willis B+ Hes compared to Ray Lewis in his prime...didnt play to that level
Dashon Goldson B
Aubrayo Franklin B
Manny Lawson B-
Issac Sopoaga C
Takeo Spikes C
Parys Haralson D
Michael Lewis D
Nate Clements F

Offense
Vernon Davis A Fulfilling his God given potential
Michael Crabtree B ...Future niner Star
Alex Smith C+.....The Phoenix has risen
Frank Gore C.....Time to draft replacement?
Moran Morris D ...he plays ?....not a factor


Josh Morgan D...... Not a starting caliber Wr...Hill should start
Joe Staley D Disappointing performance and injury
David Bass D
Eric Heitmann D A constant liability for 6+years
Chilo Rachal D ....Will get better
Adam Snyder F..... Complete failure

LOL FAIL.

VD is an A? led the NFL in penalties AND drops, and was a poor blocker.

Gore is a C? he ran for 1100 yds and scored 13 td's in a passing offensive with horrible run blocking.

Justin Smith is a B+? he was statistically the BEST DE in the NFL this year. didnt know that was only good for a B+...

Willis a B+? again, being the best ILB in the NFL is apparently not good enough...

Dashon Goldson B? he was statistically the WORST cover S in the NFL. the WORST. and he missed alot of tackles.

Takeo Spikes C-? he was statistically a top 5 ILB this season.

Parys Haralson a D-? 6 sacks, 10 qb hits, 27 qb hurries. one of the better pass rushing 3-4 OLBs....

Eric Heitmann a D? hes our only solid run and pass blocking OL. look at the stats dude, hes not top 10, but hes top 15. been so for years. hes a very solid NFL C.

what does this tell us? you know NOTHING about this team, and did NO statistical research whatsoever. you just made yourself look awful dude. lost any credibility.

Vernon Davis? A poor blocker? I think the OP has given you whatever sickness he has.

Davis blocks like an Olineman and is known as the best blocking TE in the league. He made 2nd/3rd alternate in the pro bowl in 2008 based on his blocking alone.

actually he was a terrible blocker last season. look at the stats dude. what are you basing his blocking talent on? the fact that sing said he was good in 2008?

he was a bad pass blocker and a HORRIBLE run blocker last year. best blocker in the league? think again.

Jim Kleinsasser is the best pass blocking TE in the NFL, and Anthony Fasano is the best run blocker. and its not close. VD isnt anywhere near that. he was "decent" in 08 at run blocking, and mediocre at pass blocking. he got the pro bowl alternate spot because he was a talented, popular TE who didnt suck at blocking, and had this blocking "hype" made up about him. but that was 08, and this is supposed to be 09 grades.

he didn't have any blocking hype coming out of college

did it come out of no where for no reason?

also he showed no receiving talent and wasn't popular outside of 49er fans the year he was a probowl alternate

dude, the proof is in the stats. he literally WASNT a good blocker this year. and he was only a "decent" blocker last year, when his receiving role was reduced TO block.

obviously this season he didnt focus on blocking as much as years past, but when he did block this year, he wasnt good. in fact, he was one of the very worst run blocking TE in the NFL in 2009.

Mike Singletary said his blocking had greatly "improved" in 2008, and it created a false sense that VD was actually an elite blocker, which he isnt. never has been. as soon as he started seeing the ball more often, and scoring TD's, his blocking role reduced, and so did his blocking productivity.

Okay, show us your 'stats'. Where exactly can you quantify your assessment and compare/contrast them with the TEs you mentioned.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=TE&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

That's full of crap! That looks like a bunch of made-up numbers. Give me a break. Are you honestly saying that you would have 30+ other TEs OVER Vernon Davis? Are you seriously saying that Delanie Walker (and 30+ other TEs) is a better TE than Davis based on this?! Really?!

Do me a favor and watch the Miami game last year. Vernon played Joey Porter to a standstill... basically neutralized him. Watch some games this year where he totally set the edge while blocking.

These numbers don't mean $h!t. If numbers were really the case then we should not have picked Jerry Rice because of his 4.6 40 speed because his numbers would just be too slow as a wideout.

You believe whatever you believe, but using this to back up your claim is really weak.

Yeah I'm not sure these guys know what they're looking at when they grade players. For instance they grade Adrian Peterson out as the 17th HB overall and Asomugha as the 17th CB overall . . . but hey, numbers don't lie right?

I swear, this guy thinks that site is the football bible. That site lacks credibility with all those numbers that don't explain anything and give true allpro players bad 'scores'. I've stopped arguing with him since I perused that site. It's useless to argue with people with skewed views of the truth.

apparently you dont understand...

this site is REAL stats. not made up numbers. the overall score for their combined stats is what youre looking at. thats THEIR personal formula. beleive it if you want, or dont. but stats are stats. go read the "about" section of the site, and they explain how they do things. its all real statistics and formulas.

i find it hilarious that you are so blind to factual information. VD was awesome this year.....at gaining yardage and scoring TD's. and thats ALL. sure, if you had to get one area of your game right, thats the best area. im not knocking his season, he had a breakout year.

however, you are ignorantly denying that VD also LED THE NFL in dropped passes for any position, and LED THE NFL in penalties for ANY player who didnt play OL. and guess what? he was top 5 in the NFL last season in penalties for TE's, and top 10 last year in drops for TE's. 2007? top 7 in dropped passes for TE, number ONE in the NFL in penalties for TE.

its like youre thinking so simple mindedly, that you refuse to understand that leading the NFL with 12 penalties, and dropping 13 balls, as well as being a poor blocker, should bring down any overall player score. yes, he had 13 td's and almost 1000 rec yards, however, he also dropped 13 balls, and committed 12 penalties, which combined does a huge deal of damage to counter what he just helped accomplish.

i dont agree that he got dropped to like 55th or whatever, obviously catching an NFL record 13 tds at TE makes you alot better than 55th, but thats a formula. you can decide for yourself where he ranks, but its designed to make you aware that he was surprisingly bad in about every other aspect of his game this year. probably a reason Dallas Clark got all-pro instead.

VD is a budding talent, but he still has ALOT of flaws in his overall game. thats a fact. sorry if thats upsets you.

I just want to know more about VD's "poor blocking". Cuz I know at least Maiocco thought he was at least better than Clark and Gates in that respect this past season.

Willis, a B ? Was the + for pity ?! BLASPHEMY !!!

Originally posted by Godsleftsock:
I just want to know more about VD's "poor blocking". Cuz I know at least Maiocco thought he was at least better than Clark and Gates in that respect this past season.

i sent the PFF guys an email asking about how they judge and score blocking. hopefully soon theyll get back to me, and it will be more explainable as to how legit it is.

I don't agree with your ratings on either Michael Lewis or Nate Clements...here's why:

Even though he missed some time, Lewis was still #2 in tackles only behind Willis. There's no way that equals a "D". I'd give him at C+ or even B-.

Clements doesn't deserve an "F". If you watched the games when he was out, one thing that was painfully obvious was how poor his replacements (Brown/Bly) tackled. I'd give Nate at least a C+, if not B-.

On offense, I'd give Gore a B...look at how the running game suffered when he was out. Yes, he had some substandard games, but that was more OL/playcalling-caused than his fault.

I'd give Staley a C...you can't penalize a player because he got hurt.

Heitmann's at least a C+...on the strength of his line calls alone.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by Godsleftsock:
I just want to know more about VD's "poor blocking". Cuz I know at least Maiocco thought he was at least better than Clark and Gates in that respect this past season.

i sent the PFF guys an email asking about how they judge and score blocking. hopefully soon theyll get back to me, and it will be more explainable as to how legit it is.

PFF emailed me back about why VD got such a poor score:

"Vernon Davis the blocker. With the size/strength ratio that man has there’s no way on earth that Davis couldn’t block effectively if he uses good technique and puts in the effort. When I initially graded him in some of the early games last year it was apparent to me he had all the skills but just didn’t seem to care; he would make some difficult blocks but then miss a whole host of easy ones. When Singletary took over and had “words” it seemed to light a fire under Davis and for the last half of the season he was very good indeed. I expected this to continue but if I’m honest, after he began getting plaudits for his receiving, it’s seemed to regress almost to a worse position than previously. Regarding what coaches and writers say on the matter, I don’t believe a word because coaches hardly ever tell the truth and most writers never take the time to make up their own minds."

As far as how we grade, we look at each block which influences the play. Making a simple seal on the backside is an extremely easy thing to do and we don’t give any credit for that but a block at the point of attack (or close to the POA) will always be graded. We have no idea what the actual assignment is so we always grade WHAT THE PLAYER ATTEMPTS TO DO, not what we think he should do. How accurate can we be using this methodology? Well I’ve talked to some NFL players who feel if we stick to this type of grading religiously (which we do) you should get 85-90% of the full picture.

Overall Rankings: One of the things I really wish we’d done at the start, which at the time I put on the “too hard” pile, is allow our users to weight the individual attributes of a TE. Personally I happen to believe blocking is more important than 95% of other fans but this is only my opinion. The vast majority of fans see receiving as far more important and I’d like people to be able to put a weighting factor on our grades to come up with their own overall rankings. Keep and eye out as I’d like to get this feature incorporated as soon as possible."