If Brooks becomes the starting OLB, who sits?

As others have noted, Haralson should sit and come in for Manny on 3rd down
Haralson seems to rush the passer better from the left side anyway

At Will, Brooks and a Rookie , Briggs seems well liked by players and coaches
and could be in the mix also

Originally posted by 9erHIGH:
nice to see ManLaw gettin some love.
I know we all wish he could get to the QB a little better...
ok A LOT BETTER, but you cant knock the guy's run D
or what he does in coverage.

vs the run he is EXCELLENT at striking that balance between
holding the point and widening the corner while maintaining outside leverage.
this allows the other edge defenders, (2 very good ones i might add,
in m.lewis and n.clements) to come up and make plays if ManLaw
hasn't already done it himself. he very seldom gets pushed back off the L.O.S
or gets too far upfield, which only shortens the corner dramatically.

vs the pass his combination of size and speed really constricts
passing lanes, giving opposing QBs very small windows to work with.

as long as he keeps working on his pass rush, i think he could actually
end up being a really nice defender for us for a long time.

Exactly

The "football guru's" here on the zone were bashing him just last year!

Go Niners

Originally posted by SFATeflonDon:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:
It's gotta be Haralson. Lawson is soooo much better playing the run and in coverage, he has a lot better closing speed.

This

wrong !

Originally posted by Super5:

Originally posted by 9erHIGH:
nice to see ManLaw gettin some love.
I know we all wish he could get to the QB a little better...
ok A LOT BETTER, but you cant knock the guy's run D
or what he does in coverage.

vs the run he is EXCELLENT at striking that balance between
holding the point and widening the corner while maintaining outside leverage.
this allows the other edge defenders, (2 very good ones i might add,
in m.lewis and n.clements) to come up and make plays if ManLaw
hasn't already done it himself. he very seldom gets pushed back off the L.O.S
or gets too far upfield, which only shortens the corner dramatically.

vs the pass his combination of size and speed really constricts
passing lanes, giving opposing QBs very small windows to work with.

as long as he keeps working on his pass rush, i think he could actually
end up being a really nice defender for us for a long time.

Exactly

The "football guru's" here on the zone were bashing him just last year!

Go Niners

don't like Lawson , never liked the pick , first rounder with less than 15 sacks in his whole career ! Alex Smith # 2 !

Originally posted by 9erHIGH:
nice to see ManLaw gettin some love.
I know we all wish he could get to the QB a little better...
ok A LOT BETTER, but you cant knock the guy's run D
or what he does in coverage.

He should get some love as he worked hard this season and really made big strides in his run-support (a huge improvement from the past) and it showed that he is healthy and not affected psychologically anymore from the injury. But I must say, not to "hate" on him, that some of this information is untrue. I don't mean to highjack a Brooks post but I'm sure Ahmad wouldn't mind; after all, it was Manny's job he took on 3rd downs. LOL

Originally posted by 9erHIGH:
vs the run he is EXCELLENT at striking that balance between holding the point and widening the corner while maintaining outside leverage. This allows the other edge defenders, (2 very good ones i might add,
in m.lewis and n.clements) to come up and make plays if ManLaw hasn't already done it himself. he very seldom gets pushed back off the L.O.S or gets too far upfield, which only shortens the corner dramatically.

I agree with this as many of this goes hand-in-hand with play recognition. He played well off Sopoaga this year and stood his ground allowing Willis and co. to make plays. In addition, he was stellar at getting into the backfield and making TFL.

Where he still needs work here is on screen-recognition, getting off blocks and getting off blocks esp. against speedy outside runners where he got torched pretty good on a few plays this year. He struggled a bit in covering RB's out of the backfield too. But last year he'd just blow up field and OT's would just "guide him" out wide and RB's, on a delay, would run HUGE off tackle (right to where he used to be). So props to Manny in this area!

Originally posted by 9erHIGH:
vs the pass his combination of size and speed really constricts passing lanes, giving opposing QBs very small windows to work with.

As long as he keeps working on his pass rush, I think he could actually
end up being a really nice defender for us for a long time.

Well, you'd think given his rookie year against Gonzalez that put his coverage "ability" on the map. However, the reality, IMHO, is that he is VERY overrated in this area esp. on this board and I'm not sure if fans on this site are even watching him in coverage at all anymore. Are they just going off an assumption? But this past year was his worst in coverage. I think part of that was b/c he was rarely asked to drop back in coverage and was told to focus on rushing the passer mostly.

The question is, for a guy who was drafted in the 1st round to be a pass rusher and for what the 3-4 requires, he's ovbiously a solid player IMHO but not what we really need to be a top notch 3-4. If we were running a 4-3, he'd be perfect (almost parallel to Julian Peterson when he played here in the 3-4 and sucked and then went to Seattle's 4-3 and became a star again).

My biggest issue with him that NOBODY talks about is his motivation. Let's face it, he's been handed the job here from day 1. First, he started out as a SAM, failed, sat on the bench and then was permantly moved to the WILL and initially, was used a lot in coverage. This was his first year focused on JUST pass rushing yet he excelled against the run instead. But when did he actually start putting up decent pressure and sack numbers? It was the exact same time that Brooks was given his 3rd down pass rush opportunities - and it was VERY obvious! People on this board talk about head-cases such as VD & Brooks but why, again, is Manny getting a free pass here...he got a free pass with the injury...then justified his lack of pass rush with saying he's great against the run and in coverage.

So he showed he was solid in coverage, now is great against the run...will next year be his year that he actually becomes a great pass rusher? I don't know about you guys but I'll be watching his motivation - there appears to be a correlation there that nobody wants to talk about.

[ Edited by NCommand on Jan 14, 2010 at 13:30:57 ]

Haralson. He doesn't deserve to start.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9erHIGH:
nice to see ManLaw gettin some love.
I know we all wish he could get to the QB a little better...
ok A LOT BETTER, but you cant knock the guy's run D
or what he does in coverage.

He should get some love as he worked hard this season and really made big strides in his run-support (a huge improvement from the past) and it showed that he is healthy and not affected psychologically anymore from the injury. But I must say, not to "hate" on him, that some of this information is untrue. I don't mean to highjack a Brooks post but I'm sure Ahmad wouldn't mind; after all, it was Manny's job he took on 3rd downs. LOL

Originally posted by 9erHIGH:
vs the run he is EXCELLENT at striking that balance between holding the point and widening the corner while maintaining outside leverage. This allows the other edge defenders, (2 very good ones i might add,
in m.lewis and n.clements) to come up and make plays if ManLaw hasn't already done it himself. he very seldom gets pushed back off the L.O.S or gets too far upfield, which only shortens the corner dramatically.

I agree with this as many of this goes hand-in-hand with play recognition. He played well off Sopoaga this year and stood his ground allowing Willis and co. to make plays. In addition, he was stellar at getting into the backfield and making TFL.

Where he still needs work here is on screen-recognition, getting off blocks and getting off blocks esp. against speedy outside runners where he got torched pretty good on a few plays this year. He struggled a bit in covering RB's out of the backfield too. But last year he'd just blow up field and OT's would just "guide him" out wide and RB's, on a delay, would run HUGE off tackle (right to where he used to be). So props to Manny in this area!

Originally posted by 9erHIGH:
vs the pass his combination of size and speed really constricts passing lanes, giving opposing QBs very small windows to work with.

As long as he keeps working on his pass rush, I think he could actually
end up being a really nice defender for us for a long time.

Well, you'd think given his rookie year against Gonzalez that put his coverage "ability" on the map. However, the reality, IMHO, is that he is VERY overrated in this area esp. on this board and I'm not sure if fans on this site are even watching him in coverage at all anymore. Are they just going off an assumption? But this past year was his worst in coverage. I think part of that was b/c he was rarely asked to drop back in coverage and was told to focus on rushing the passer mostly.

The question is, for a guy who was drafted in the 1st round to be a pass rusher and for what the 3-4 requires, he's ovbiously a solid player IMHO but not what we really need to be a top notch 3-4. If we were running a 4-3, he'd be perfect (almost parallel to Julian Peterson when he played here in the 3-4 and sucked and then went to Seattle's 4-3 and became a star again).

My biggest issue with him that NOBODY talks about is his motivation. Let's face it, he's been handed the job here from day 1. First, he started out as a SAM, failed, sat on the bench and then was permantly moved to the WILL and initially, was used a lot in coverage. This was his first year focused on JUST pass rushing yet he excelled against the run instead. But when did he actually start putting up decent pressure and sack numbers? It was the exact same time that Brooks was given his 3rd down pass rush opportunities - and it was VERY obvious! People on this board talk about head-cases such as VD & Brooks but why, again, is Manny getting a free pass here...he got a free pass with the injury...then justified his lack of pass rush with saying he's great against the run and in coverage.

So he showed he was solid in coverage, now is great against the run...will next year be his year that he actually becomes a great pass rusher? I don't know about you guys but I'll be watching his motivation - there appears to be a correlation there that nobody wants to talk about.

I agree with all that you said EXCEPT that Manny's not motivated! The guy works his tail off and has shown a desire to get better every year,which he has!

Originally posted by Mister49:
I agree with all that you said EXCEPT that Manny's not motivated! The guy works his tail off and has shown a desire to get better every year,which he has!

Hmmm, maybe I should have used the word "passion." He's always been a hard worker but doesn't seem to play with a fire or ultra aggressiveness on any consistent basis. In fact, the only time I saw him play with a fire in his belly was the first game after getting demoted (I believe it was his highest sack total of the year too coincidently - maybe it was the next game). But you could see him on the sidelines and he was pissed off and playing with some emotion. He was not happy and THAT is the type of attitude you need at the WILL & SAM positions.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Mister49:
I agree with all that you said EXCEPT that Manny's not motivated! The guy works his tail off and has shown a desire to get better every year,which he has!

Hmmm, maybe I should have used the word "passion." He's always been a hard worker but doesn't seem to play with a fire or ultra aggressiveness on any consistent basis. In fact, the only time I saw him play with a fire in his belly was the first game after getting demoted (I believe it was his highest sack total of the year too coincidently - maybe it was the next game). But you could see him on the sidelines and he was pissed off and playing with some emotion. He was not happy and THAT is the type of attitude you need at the WILL & SAM positions.

You make some great points, especially on how Lawson lacks the ability to recognize the screen. That never occurred to me.

I'll also agree with you that Lawson was rarely asked to be sent into coverage. Lawson's job was to cover the flats and really nothing beyond that. He does need to do a better job at this - I've seen RBs turn up field against him a few times.

I don't think that Lawson lacks motivation. I think "intensity" is the word that you're looking for there.

-9fA

we should go back to the 4-3

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
You make some great points, especially on how Lawson lacks the ability to recognize the screen. That never occurred to me.

I'll also agree with you that Lawson was rarely asked to be sent into coverage. Lawson's job was to cover the flats and really nothing beyond that. He does need to do a better job at this - I've seen RBs turn up field against him a few times.

I don't think that Lawson lacks motivation. I think "intensity" is the word that you're looking for there.

-9fA

Very true about his coverage; in fact, of the 852 plays he was in on, only 142 were in coverage and I'm using a loose definition of "coverage" for the most part here. He was pretty even in runs vs. pass rush this year. So, in 327 pass rush attempts, he produced 6.5 sacks. Eh.

There you go! That's even better. He and Alex Smith need to take "Intensity 101" courses in the off-season. He can start by looking into Singletary's eyes!

[ Edited by NCommand on Jan 14, 2010 at 15:29:06 ]

Haralson without a question. If they do infact bench Lawson this staff is stupid.

Lawson is a very good LB so what if he doesnt get huge sack numbers. He does so much for this team that goes under the radar. Just like clements. Our D took a hit when he got hurt people are just caught up in stats

None of the Above. They would probably rotate all three regardless of who started according to Matt B:

Matt - Chat replay

[ Edited by Norcal9erfan on Jan 14, 2010 at 16:46:05 ]

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Haralson without a question. If they do infact bench Lawson this staff is stupid.

Lawson is a very good LB so what if he doesnt get huge sack numbers. He does so much for this team that goes under the radar. Just like clements. Our D took a hit when he got hurt people are just caught up in stats

Haralson should sit if Brooks starts. I think there should be a rotation of all the guys including Briggs or if another guy is drafted early.

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Haralson without a question. If they do infact bench Lawson this staff is stupid.

Lawson is a very good LB so what if he doesnt get huge sack numbers. He does so much for this team that goes under the radar. Just like clements. Our D took a hit when he got hurt people are just caught up in stats

I agree with everything you said, but Nate was demoted before his injury. He hasn't been doing anything well the past season or two.