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Changes coach Sing will make?

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  • dj43
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  • Posts: 38,524
Originally posted by btwagner:
Originally posted by titan:
Originally posted by ninerfan:
The O-Line was on life support most of this season, while it won't help from a continuity standpoint I think we need at least 2 new quality offensive linemen added this offseason. I'm not sure who would have to go to make room but the offensive line is the key component to having a dominant offense. We have 2 first rounders I say we spend at least one on the O-Line. Since I live in Oregon I'm only able to see the niners when they play the Seahawks or on primetime games, can anyone tell me whether or not Baas is worth keeping or not I know we drafted him like 33rd overall but I've heard he's been somewhat of a disappointment.

Baas has his moments, I think he is our best run blocker when he is pulling! He needs to be more consistent and yes he can stay!

Staff seems to like Heitmann alot but I would like to see Baas move to C as well....Also I think adding a player like Iupati from Idaho to LG would give us 3 interior linemen with some nastyness to them...

While the interior OL play needs to improve, the greatest OL need is RT - that has been documented here ad nauseum.

My hope is that Rachal, who showed noticeable improvement in the last three games of the season, albeit against weaker opponents, will continue to improve next season.

I don't see much hope for improvement from Baas. He is pretty much now the same player he was from the beginning - good drive blocker but limited in other areas.

Which brings me to the most important OL question: Who is going to be the position coach next season? Foerster clearly is not the right guy. I just do not accept that the current group is a bad as they played much of the time. While I understand part of it is the very vanillia hat-on-hat blocking schemes which demand all perform well on every play, there are many technical flaws in both angles and technique that continue to show up in every game, that it points directly at poor coaching.
Originally posted by dj43:
While the interior OL play needs to improve, the greatest OL need is RT - that has been documented here ad nauseum.

Obviously you put some time in studying the oline so I will defer to your opinion on some of these points. This is an obvious need. But should we really draft a high pick here or go for a real, proven veteran FA. I'm tired of trying to see our high o-linemen try to develop over 3, 4 years with moderate, if any, success.

Originally posted by dj43:
My hope is that Rachal, who showed noticeable improvement in the last three games of the season, albeit against weaker opponents, will continue to improve next season.

He has looked better as of late and the time on the bench to collect himself may have helped. Perhaps a solid off season and the experience he gained this year in what to expect on a professional level will serve him well in 2010? We shall see.

Originally posted by dj43:
I don't see much hope for improvement from Baas. He is pretty much now the same player he was from the beginning - good drive blocker but limited in other areas.

The only thing I disagree with her is that it seems like 99% of Gore's big runs this year have been a result of a Baas pull block. The problem is that he's playing on the left side and where he seemed to have the most success was at the RG spot when he first started for us. He seemed exceptional there and played with a mean streak and confidence. He also battled quite a few injuries this year that he played through too. I think, if he, like Smiley, Dahl, etc. would go to a better team with a much better scheme and better players around him, he, like ALL of our linemen might be much more successful.

Originally posted by dj43:
Which brings me to the most important OL question: Who is going to be the position coach next season? Foerster clearly is not the right guy. I just do not accept that the current group is a bad as they played much of the time. While I understand part of it is the very vanillia hat-on-hat blocking schemes which demand all perform well on every play, there are many technical flaws in both angles and technique that continue to show up in every game, that it points directly at poor coaching.

This is a good point b/c both Staley & Heitmann, our two best linemen, perhaps, also struggled mightily this year and Staley even got beat up physically. I believe that says more to the predictability of the play-calling and defenses gearing up for predictable runs and short passing calls on obvious downs and a common knowledge that to beat the Niners you just stack 8 or 9 in the box on 1st and 2nd down and blitz the crap out of them on the usual 3rd and long OR just blitz the crap out of them on every down including run blitzing up the gut; you never needed to worry about Gore bouncing it outside...ever. But I'm with you that Foerster does not seem to be the guy and Sing HAS to make some changes as this team failed in many areas and did not reach an obtainable goal and this is one glaring hole.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Bush would be a great call if we are going to keep Smith and run a lot out of the shotgun. Plus he would solve our Punt return issue.

WOW, Gore and Bush would be SICK for us. The potential with these two guy's both on the field at the same time would be SICK! Bush could be a nice short pass outlook for Smith when the PassRush is in his face. Also, V. Davis, Crabby, Bush and Gore all in the same O... That would have to be one of the best if not the best line-up's talent wise in the NFL.
Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:
With Bruce retiring and Battle likely to be booted off the gravy train, the receiver corps will surely be a better unit that takes up less valuable roster space and cap room.

Maybe if the WR core gets new "non-cement" shoes.
  • dj43
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Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dj43:
While the interior OL play needs to improve, the greatest OL need is RT - that has been documented here ad nauseum.

Obviously you put some time in studying the oline so I will defer to your opinion on some of these points. This is an obvious need. But should we really draft a high pick here or go for a real, proven veteran FA. I'm tired of trying to see our high o-linemen try to develop over 3, 4 years with moderate, if any, success.

Originally posted by dj43:
My hope is that Rachal, who showed noticeable improvement in the last three games of the season, albeit against weaker opponents, will continue to improve next season.

He has looked better as of late and the time on the bench to collect himself may have helped. Perhaps a solid off season and the experience he gained this year in what to expect on a professional level will serve him well in 2010? We shall see.

Originally posted by dj43:
I don't see much hope for improvement from Baas. He is pretty much now the same player he was from the beginning - good drive blocker but limited in other areas.

The only thing I disagree with her is that it seems like 99% of Gore's big runs this year have been a result of a Baas pull block. The problem is that he's playing on the left side and where he seemed to have the most success was at the RG spot when he first started for us. He seemed exceptional there and played with a mean streak and confidence. He also battled quite a few injuries this year that he played through too. I think, if he, like Smiley, Dahl, etc. would go to a better team with a much better scheme and better players around him, he, like ALL of our linemen might be much more successful.

Originally posted by dj43:
Which brings me to the most important OL question: Who is going to be the position coach next season? Foerster clearly is not the right guy. I just do not accept that the current group is a bad as they played much of the time. While I understand part of it is the very vanillia hat-on-hat blocking schemes which demand all perform well on every play, there are many technical flaws in both angles and technique that continue to show up in every game, that it points directly at poor coaching.

This is a good point b/c both Staley & Heitmann, our two best linemen, perhaps, also struggled mightily this year and Staley even got beat up physically. I believe that says more to the predictability of the play-calling and defenses gearing up for predictable runs and short passing calls on obvious downs and a common knowledge that to beat the Niners you just stack 8 or 9 in the box on 1st and 2nd down and blitz the crap out of them on the usual 3rd and long OR just blitz the crap out of them on every down including run blitzing up the gut; you never needed to worry about Gore bouncing it outside...ever. But I'm with you that Foerster does not seem to be the guy and Sing HAS to make some changes as this team failed in many areas and did not reach an obtainable goal and this is one glaring hole.
My hunch is that the last paragraph says more about the problems than anything else. I have questioned play design and play sequencing all season long. It was no different with Hill or Smith. There seemed to be no goal in probing defenses and then using certain plays to set up others. Every running play was "stick-a-foot-in-the-ground-and-cut-it-up-the-field." The OL seemed like it was being called on to make the same, or very similar blocks on every play. There was no real attempt at misdirection I could go on but I'm sure you get the point.

The other point I noticed was that certain fundamentals flaws seemed to recur with the same guys time after time. I just do not believe that players at this level are not capable of better progress than we have seen from this group of OL. That is a coaching issue, IMO.

That having been said, I couldn't help my envy watching Ferguson, Mangold, Faneca and company dominate people with the Jets the last half of the season. I believe, for that reason, the Jets may be more of a threat in the playoffs than a lot of folks realize.
[ Edited by dj43 on Jan 5, 2010 at 1:08 PM ]
At a minimum:

1. Fire Greg Foerster

2. Fire Jerry Sullivan

3. Upgrade talent on O-line.

4 Find a good, FAST WR threat to complement Crabtree - Morgan is not fast enough - haven't seen enough of Jason Hill. Keep Morgan, Hill though. Get rid of Brandon Jones.

5. QBs: Alex Amith as starter for now, keep Nate Davis, bring in QB with experience who can actually play. Trade/waive Shaun Hill.

6. Get a speedy P/K returner - no more slow underwater Arnaz Battle types.

7. Upgrade secondary with more speed.

8. RBs: Find two quick, strong running backs F/A or draft to take load off Frank Gore and keep him healthy. You can't go through the season with one only running back that can play. Coffee sucks - I'd be disappointed if he still is on the team next year.

9. New full back who can catch and run (not just block)

10. Find a monster pass rusher.

11. Get Alex Smith to think about running more with the ball as another offensive threat.
My main concern is that they lock up P'Willy and VD for a long time.
  • susweel
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Originally posted by Youngone:
My main concern is that they lock up P'Willy and VD for a long time.

They aint going no where.
Originally posted by 5xChamp:
Originally posted by titan:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
I hope he gives Staley a look at RT, and Chilo a look at LG; allows Nate to compete with Alex; gives Goldson a look at SS instead, if we draft Berry; looks for a new FB, and changes our KR/PR.

Who would you like at LT? and Berry will look good in a 49er uniform.

Tackles to look into:

Jared Gaither, LT - Ravens, 23 years old. Restricted FA.
Jeremy Trueblood, RT - Buccaneers, 26 years old.
Marcus McNeill, LT - Chargers, 25 years old.

McNeil would be a stud but its hard to imagine SD letting him go. He's a stud.
Originally posted by dj43:
My hunch is that the last paragraph says more about the problems than anything else. I have questioned play design and play sequencing all season long. It was no different with Hill or Smith. There seemed to be no goal in probing defenses and then using certain plays to set up others. Every running play was "stick-a-foot-in-the-ground-and-cut-it-up-the-field." The OL seemed like it was being called on to make the same, or very similar blocks on every play. There was no real attempt at misdirection I could go on but I'm sure you get the point.

The other point I noticed was that certain fundamentals flaws seemed to recur with the same guys time after time. I just do not believe that players at this level are not capable of better progress than we have seen from this group of OL. That is a coaching issue, IMO.

That having been said, I couldn't help my envy watching Ferguson, Mangold, Faneca and company dominate people with the Jets the last half of the season. I believe, for that reason, the Jets may be more of a threat in the playoffs than a lot of folks realize.

Yeah, it sort of comes down to the chicken or the egg theory. Is Raye's so conservative and predictable b/c he is still unfamiliar with the team and/or they are very limited in their skill-set or is Raye hanging his hat on a couple individual successes but lacking the overall vision and adjustments needed of today's successful offenses and/or being handcuffed by Singletary (even with his new vision of "balance")?

I do believe it starts with Singletary but then Raye who is ultimately responsible, followed by poor position coaching and players drafted/acquired who appear to be one-dimensional.

I do believe though that there are OC's out there who could get much much more out of these players, are more prepared to start games, who could exploit defensive weaknesses, who know how and when to attack, who know when to predominatly use Gore or Crabtree or Davis or Smith, who know how to keep defenses on their heels and always guessing, who can out-coach an opponent on a regular basis and who have a better feel for the talent on this team. I think if we had a bonefide OC, Singletary would have no problem adjusting to whatever is most successful for our team no matter WHAT that system ends up being. Saying he wants "balance" is what every coach in the league says in PC terms. But being balanced is not what wins you games. Sometimes you need to pass much more (Rams game) and sometimes you should run much more (Seattle game)...we did just the opposite.

The Jets will probably be dangerous...teams go as their lines go and allow the play-makers to make plays. Period. It also free's up an OC to take more chances esp. if they have a defense who will give it right back to them.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Offensive line is definitely a serious need, we could use more speed in the secondary as well.

OT and CB/S should be what we spend our two 1st rounders on, unless there's an opportunity to get a potential superstar who slips down to us.
  • dj43
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Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dj43:
My hunch is that the last paragraph says more about the problems than anything else. I have questioned play design and play sequencing all season long. It was no different with Hill or Smith. There seemed to be no goal in probing defenses and then using certain plays to set up others. Every running play was "stick-a-foot-in-the-ground-and-cut-it-up-the-field." The OL seemed like it was being called on to make the same, or very similar blocks on every play. There was no real attempt at misdirection I could go on but I'm sure you get the point.

The other point I noticed was that certain fundamentals flaws seemed to recur with the same guys time after time. I just do not believe that players at this level are not capable of better progress than we have seen from this group of OL. That is a coaching issue, IMO.

That having been said, I couldn't help my envy watching Ferguson, Mangold, Faneca and company dominate people with the Jets the last half of the season. I believe, for that reason, the Jets may be more of a threat in the playoffs than a lot of folks realize.

Yeah, it sort of comes down to the chicken or the egg theory. Is Raye's so conservative and predictable b/c he is still unfamiliar with the team and/or they are very limited in their skill-set or is Raye hanging his hat on a couple individual successes but lacking the overall vision and adjustments needed of today's successful offenses and/or being handcuffed by Singletary (even with his new vision of "balance")?

I do believe it starts with Singletary but then Raye who is ultimately responsible, followed by poor position coaching and players drafted/acquired who appear to be one-dimensional.

I do believe though that there are OC's out there who could get much much more out of these players, are more prepared to start games, who could exploit defensive weaknesses, who know how and when to attack, who know when to predominatly use Gore or Crabtree or Davis or Smith, who know how to keep defenses on their heels and always guessing, who can out-coach an opponent on a regular basis and who have a better feel for the talent on this team. I think if we had a bonefide OC, Singletary would have no problem adjusting to whatever is most successful for our team no matter WHAT that system ends up being. Saying he wants "balance" is what every coach in the league says in PC terms. But being balanced is not what wins you games. Sometimes you need to pass much more (Rams game) and sometimes you should run much more (Seattle game)...we did just the opposite.

The Jets will probably be dangerous...teams go as their lines go and allow the play-makers to make plays. Period. It also free's up an OC to take more chances esp. if they have a defense who will give it right back to them.
I'm certainly no expert but I have watched a couple hundred pro games in my life, many of them in person. I have no clear idea of which is the chicken and which is the egg, ie., is it the lack of OC vision or is it OL position coaching.

My OPINION is that the answer is "D," all of the above:

The 49ers were a mess when Nolan arrived (not news) and few people even wanted to come here. It is all history but Nolan was hired so late by Papa Bungler that all the quality position coaches were already committed to other teams. Nolan was forced to fill his staff with 2nd and 3rd tier personnel and that slowed the development of all the young players, as we could all see. The franchise was such a mess that even when the opportunity did arise to replace someone, there were no quality guys available - enter Hostler and Raye as second or third choice guys.

George Warhop was one of those third tier holdovers that they either couldn't get rid of and replace him with anyone better or didn't realize how bad he was. When they finally did make a mid-season move, it was to Foerster, and we can now clearly see why he was available in the middle of the season.

My hope is that Singletary truly has have the strength of character and appeal that will convince quality coaches to come here to replace Foerster and Sullivan and Hoehner (VD's development has been much to slow to indicate Pete is good enough to keep). As to whether Raye is capable of putting a varied and creative game plan together, I have no idea. He did show the willingness to change the offense completely in mid-season, which is not an easy thing to do. However, the offense he changed to was so vanilla a high school coach could have done it. Now the reasoning that has been put forth for that is that you can't just drop new, creative things into an offense in mid-season. I get that. It takes training camp to implement those things.

So I've now spun back around to the starting point: I don't know if Raye can be the guy or not. I do not believe Foerster, Sullivan and Hoehner have shown they can develop players well enough, or quickly enough to make this team competitive in the playoffs before Frank Gore retires. In any case, I believe Singletary MUST make at least the move to replace Foerster if he wants to maintain any cred around town. Sullivan and Hoehner could stay unless someone good become available. There will be a lot of shakeups in the next couple of weeks. Washington and Buffalo are just the beginning. I would like to see Singletary make a move by Super Bowl week that will show he has both the vision and the will to make an improvement in a critical area of the team, the offensive line play.

That is sort of a ramble but it expresses my dilemma about how much change is necessary to make this team the playoff contender it could be if McCloughan can hit a home run in FA and another pair in the draft.
  • da209
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everest contract will not be renewed!...

http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2010/01/everest-out-as-49ers-special-teams-coach.html
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by dj43:
My hunch is that the last paragraph says more about the problems than anything else. I have questioned play design and play sequencing all season long. It was no different with Hill or Smith. There seemed to be no goal in probing defenses and then using certain plays to set up others. Every running play was "stick-a-foot-in-the-ground-and-cut-it-up-the-field." The OL seemed like it was being called on to make the same, or very similar blocks on every play. There was no real attempt at misdirection I could go on but I'm sure you get the point.

The other point I noticed was that certain fundamentals flaws seemed to recur with the same guys time after time. I just do not believe that players at this level are not capable of better progress than we have seen from this group of OL. That is a coaching issue, IMO.

That having been said, I couldn't help my envy watching Ferguson, Mangold, Faneca and company dominate people with the Jets the last half of the season. I believe, for that reason, the Jets may be more of a threat in the playoffs than a lot of folks realize.

Yeah, it sort of comes down to the chicken or the egg theory. Is Raye's so conservative and predictable b/c he is still unfamiliar with the team and/or they are very limited in their skill-set or is Raye hanging his hat on a couple individual successes but lacking the overall vision and adjustments needed of today's successful offenses and/or being handcuffed by Singletary (even with his new vision of "balance")?

I do believe it starts with Singletary but then Raye who is ultimately responsible, followed by poor position coaching and players drafted/acquired who appear to be one-dimensional.

I do believe though that there are OC's out there who could get much much more out of these players, are more prepared to start games, who could exploit defensive weaknesses, who know how and when to attack, who know when to predominatly use Gore or Crabtree or Davis or Smith, who know how to keep defenses on their heels and always guessing, who can out-coach an opponent on a regular basis and who have a better feel for the talent on this team. I think if we had a bonefide OC, Singletary would have no problem adjusting to whatever is most successful for our team no matter WHAT that system ends up being. Saying he wants "balance" is what every coach in the league says in PC terms. But being balanced is not what wins you games. Sometimes you need to pass much more (Rams game) and sometimes you should run much more (Seattle game)...we did just the opposite.

The Jets will probably be dangerous...teams go as their lines go and allow the play-makers to make plays. Period. It also free's up an OC to take more chances esp. if they have a defense who will give it right back to them.
I'm certainly no expert but I have watched a couple hundred pro games in my life, many of them in person. I have no clear idea of which is the chicken and which is the egg, ie., is it the lack of OC vision or is it OL position coaching.

My OPINION is that the answer is "D," all of the above:

The 49ers were a mess when Nolan arrived (not news) and few people even wanted to come here. It is all history but Nolan was hired so late by Papa Bungler that all the quality position coaches were already committed to other teams. Nolan was forced to fill his staff with 2nd and 3rd tier personnel and that slowed the development of all the young players, as we could all see. The franchise was such a mess that even when the opportunity did arise to replace someone, there were no quality guys available - enter Hostler and Raye as second or third choice guys.

George Warhop was one of those third tier holdovers that they either couldn't get rid of and replace him with anyone better or didn't realize how bad he was. When they finally did make a mid-season move, it was to Foerster, and we can now clearly see why he was available in the middle of the season.

My hope is that Singletary truly has have the strength of character and appeal that will convince quality coaches to come here to replace Foerster and Sullivan and Hoehner (VD's development has been much to slow to indicate Pete is good enough to keep). As to whether Raye is capable of putting a varied and creative game plan together, I have no idea. He did show the willingness to change the offense completely in mid-season, which is not an easy thing to do. However, the offense he changed to was so vanilla a high school coach could have done it. Now the reasoning that has been put forth for that is that you can't just drop new, creative things into an offense in mid-season. I get that. It takes training camp to implement those things.

So I've now spun back around to the starting point: I don't know if Raye can be the guy or not. I do not believe Foerster, Sullivan and Hoehner have shown they can develop players well enough, or quickly enough to make this team competitive in the playoffs before Frank Gore retires. In any case, I believe Singletary MUST make at least the move to replace Foerster if he wants to maintain any cred around town. Sullivan and Hoehner could stay unless someone good become available. There will be a lot of shakeups in the next couple of weeks. Washington and Buffalo are just the beginning. I would like to see Singletary make a move by Super Bowl week that will show he has both the vision and the will to make an improvement in a critical area of the team, the offensive line play.

That is sort of a ramble but it expresses my dilemma about how much change is necessary to make this team the playoff contender it could be if McCloughan can hit a home run in FA and another pair in the draft.

Spot on, sir. Anyone who questions the need for new OL cioaching should view how Philly's OL performed vs the Niners. No blocked passes for McNabb, as Philly's OL consistently cut down the Niner DL on short QB drops. Just a very glaring example of inferior Niner OL coaching.
[ Edited by jimbagg on Jan 5, 2010 at 8:37 PM ]
IMO if Jed really wants to change the perception of the Niners thoughout the league, he gets rid of Scot, who has been holding this team more than anyone since Nolan left, and replace him with a true GM like Ron Wolf.
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