Finally a comparison that nobody can dispute - Alex Smith vs Matt Stafford

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by cestmoi:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by cestmoi:

Originally posted by Shaj:
wow, lots of people piling on me. I'm not as easily satisfied with mediocrity or excuses. I've always worked in a "results now or you're fired" environment, so it's hard for me to expect anything less of someone who is getting paid millions to produce but can't -- esp when virtually all his peers are doing so. I love this team too much to accept mediocrity. And for all those who are tired of my Tim Couch allusions, what you should be tired of is Tim Couch like results. Being averse to acknowledging painful history is a form of delusion IMO.

except you're wrong, no one is afraid to admit or acknowledge Smith's past.

Virtually all his peers are producing? WHAT?! You must have a very relaxed definition of producing then, because while you might be able to find some guys with QB ratings a few points higher, you won't find 'virtually all his peers' playing considerably better. You must not pay attention to the rest of the league.

Of course you'll ignore this post, and come back in a few pages to make a similar weak comment, but whatever.

Why do you say I'm making weak comments? I'm making inconvenient comments.

If someone plays better than Alex, then it's only because _________________.

If Alex doesn't play well, then it's must be because of ________________.

Isn't that getting old to you? Why does anyone have tolerance for that?

I think he can be a salvageable low 80's passer rating type QB of the future for us. If you're cool with that, that's great. I just expect more. It's not about hating him. I hope he is the answer, and we can use our draft picks elsewhere. I just don't see us winning a superbowl with him, ever... be honest, do you? And if the answer is "probably not", then why are we wasting our time?

You're right it is getting old. And he isn't playing as well as any of us would like.
And a lot of people are making too many excuses for him.
but...
The point I was trying to make is that compared to the rest of the league, he's isn't horrible, not even that bad. There are probably 10 teams with worse QBs, and while you might have very high standards, it isn't realistic to grab a stud QB at this point.
We could draft Clausen, but he'd take time and we'd be out of the playoff hunt for two more years minimum and with Frank on the downside of his career it might be too late ... or we could bankrupt the team in terms of draft picks and grab an excellent proven QB and have the team fall off a cliff when it ages as a result of fewer young guys being drafted as a result.
Or we could use the picks we have to shore up the line, and address some holes on defense, then we could be in the playoffs next season WITH Alex while grooming Nate Davis.

I like the last choice.

There are about 11 starting qb's with lower qb ratings, and 19 with better. So while he's not the worst, he's definitely below average. I'd love to see him do well, but I agree with Shaj that it isn't likely to happen.

but how many of those teams have a worse o line the. Smith smith has someone on his face most of he day I think as of last week we were the second worst in qb pressures allowed only worse then the redskins

You have a point, but would it be fair to compare the Lions OL to the OL Alex played behind his rookie season? You put any rookie QB in the game with lousy pass protection and the results are bound to be disastrous........ Here's another excuse for you:

This was Mike McCarthy's first and only year as the Niners OC. So lets say the learning curve was new for the entire offense.

I support keeping Alex for one more year and I can't wait to see how its going to turn out. I'm hoping Alex succeeds, but 2010 is it for him. Bottom line is if he doesn't cut it, he has to go.......... Then Niner fans won't have to discuss whether Alex should stay or go........

Guess what... Alex Smith is your starting quarterback.

That isn't going to change any time soon.

Get over it.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by cestmoi:

Originally posted by Shaj:
wow, lots of people piling on me. I'm not as easily satisfied with mediocrity or excuses. I've always worked in a "results now or you're fired" environment, so it's hard for me to expect anything less of someone who is getting paid millions to produce but can't -- esp when virtually all his peers are doing so. I love this team too much to accept mediocrity. And for all those who are tired of my Tim Couch allusions, what you should be tired of is Tim Couch like results. Being averse to acknowledging painful history is a form of delusion IMO.

except you're wrong, no one is afraid to admit or acknowledge Smith's past.

Virtually all his peers are producing? WHAT?! You must have a very relaxed definition of producing then, because while you might be able to find some guys with QB ratings a few points higher, you won't find 'virtually all his peers' playing considerably better. You must not pay attention to the rest of the league.

Of course you'll ignore this post, and come back in a few pages to make a similar weak comment, but whatever.

Why do you say I'm making weak comments? I'm making inconvenient comments. Speaking of comments, how about these regulars from zoners:

If someone plays better than Alex, then it's only because _________________.

If Alex doesn't play well, then it's must be because of ________________.

Isn't that getting old to you? Why does anyone have tolerance for that?

I think he can be a salvageable low 80's passer rating type QB of the future for us. If you're cool with that, that's great. I just expect more. It's not about hating him. I hope he is the answer, and we can use our draft picks elsewhere. I just don't see us winning a superbowl with him, ever... be honest, do you? And if the answer is "probably not", then why are we wasting our time?

If Trent Dilfer can win a SB, then I have to Believe Alex can get it done. I'm just saying..........

Originally posted by socal81:
You can only compare stats with other QB's when their careers are done. I think it's way to early to do that now but I like the theory of this thread. Alex has done nothing amazing to prove that he was the best player in the draft. Stafford on the other hand had a 500 yard game this year and that play where he was hurt and came back and won the game.

Smith has only had one 300 yard game in his career. Who cares how bad his line is or how crappy the WR have been over the years. As much as I wish another QB would be available, Smith has to be #1 on the depth chart this offseason. He has to take all the reps and even then I think we've seen his ceiling.

socal81 - I totally agree with your comment. We now know that Alex was not the best QB in the draft. Everytime I see or hear about Aaron Rodgers stats and victories I get a little sick. Who's knows where the Niners would be if they would have selected Rodgers. Then again how would Rodgers fair after being thrown into the pile of crap offense we had in 05????????? Very hard to say.

Originally posted by pantstickle:

Originally posted by cestmoi:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by cestmoi:

Originally posted by Shaj:
wow, lots of people piling on me. I'm not as easily satisfied with mediocrity or excuses. I've always worked in a "results now or you're fired" environment, so it's hard for me to expect anything less of someone who is getting paid millions to produce but can't -- esp when virtually all his peers are doing so. I love this team too much to accept mediocrity. And for all those who are tired of my Tim Couch allusions, what you should be tired of is Tim Couch like results. Being averse to acknowledging painful history is a form of delusion IMO.

except you're wrong, no one is afraid to admit or acknowledge Smith's past.

Virtually all his peers are producing? WHAT?! You must have a very relaxed definition of producing then, because while you might be able to find some guys with QB ratings a few points higher, you won't find 'virtually all his peers' playing considerably better. You must not pay attention to the rest of the league.

Of course you'll ignore this post, and come back in a few pages to make a similar weak comment, but whatever.

Why do you say I'm making weak comments? I'm making inconvenient comments.

If someone plays better than Alex, then it's only because _________________.

If Alex doesn't play well, then it's must be because of ________________.

Isn't that getting old to you? Why does anyone have tolerance for that?

I think he can be a salvageable low 80's passer rating type QB of the future for us. If you're cool with that, that's great. I just expect more. It's not about hating him. I hope he is the answer, and we can use our draft picks elsewhere. I just don't see us winning a superbowl with him, ever... be honest, do you? And if the answer is "probably not", then why are we wasting our time?

You're right it is getting old. And he isn't playing as well as any of us would like.
And a lot of people are making too many excuses for him.
but...
The point I was trying to make is that compared to the rest of the league, he's isn't horrible, not even that bad. There are probably 10 teams with worse QBs, and while you might have very high standards, it isn't realistic to grab a stud QB at this point.
We could draft Clausen, but he'd take time and we'd be out of the playoff hunt for two more years minimum and with Frank on the downside of his career it might be too late ... or we could bankrupt the team in terms of draft picks and grab an excellent proven QB and have the team fall off a cliff when it ages as a result of fewer young guys being drafted as a result.
Or we could use the picks we have to shore up the line, and address some holes on defense, then we could be in the playoffs next season WITH Alex while grooming Nate Davis.

I like the last choice.

There are about 11 starting qb's with lower qb ratings, and 19 with better. So while he's not the worst, he's definitely below average. I'd love to see him do well, but I agree with Shaj that it isn't likely to happen.

Hes that low because he didnt start the whole season. If he started week 1 then I would sayhe would of been an above middle of the pack quarterback. Not bad a for a first year offense. This offseason with the same guys were gonna work out all the kinks and were gonna be great next year.

stafford threw 7 more pics

First of all I think it is unrealistic to compare these two QBs as they are totally different. The reality is that 2004 draft class was one of the worst in history especially with regards to QB. Rogers was not expected to be great and Smith looked to have a better upside. If you remember correctly, there was talk that the Niners wanted to trade down but no one wanted the pick. It like being told that you won a free car and when you get to the dealer you find your option is between a 69 Ford Maverik and 71 Ford Pinto. Neither is an option that you really want but you take what you get.

Second point is that packaging draft picks to move up to get the so called best QB in the draft is foolish. Right now we have glaring needs that far outweigh the QB position. We need to fix our O-line first and foremost, we could use some work on the defensive line, we need to improve our secondary, and we need to get a fast change of pace back to back up Gore. Reality is that Smith is playing right now like an average QB. If he can continue to produce ~225-250yds gm with an avg of 2 tds a game and can minimize interceptions, and we fix our defensive weaknesses, we will be a strong playoff team. Our defense is very good and fixing a few holes we would be great. You don’t have to have great QB play to go far in the playoffs but you do need to have a very good D.

Finally, something that many don’t want to consider is that we have basically introduced a new offense since Alex has taken over. There are nuances and details that the players are still working on. Timing has been an issue, being on the same page between rec and QB has been an issue. Bottom line, given a complete off-season as the starter working with the receivers developing chemistry will provide us with a better indicator of how well Alex can be. I agree with those who say that if he fails next year, he is gone. That said, lets give him every opportunity to succeed.

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Guess what... Alex Smith is your starting quarterback.

That isn't going to change any time soon.

Get over it.

this

I'm not surprised by any of these threads anymore. These are the same people that were saying, "WE NEEDZ DREW STANTONZ" on game day.


"But hiz 3ee pix wure ok."

"Smythz tee-dee pazz wuz stoopid dood!"

Originally posted by kemp_j:
You have a point, but would it be fair to compare the Lions OL to the OL Alex played behind his rookie season? You put any rookie QB in the game with lousy pass protection and the results are bound to be disastrous........ Here's another excuse for you:

This was Mike McCarthy's first and only year as the Niners OC. So lets say the learning curve was new for the entire offense.

I support keeping Alex for one more year and I can't wait to see how its going to turn out. I'm hoping Alex succeeds, but 2010 is it for him. Bottom line is if he doesn't cut it, he has to go.......... Then Niner fans won't have to discuss whether Alex should stay or go........

Try to remember that these decisions are not ours to make.

Because our team had guys like Calvin Johnson in 2005.