Media Mythbusting - Team Speed - Defense

Yes, stats tell you if a team has speed.

Niner talk at it's f**king finest.





Our secondary is slow.... don't over think it

Nice post well presented but I feel incorrect. I remember seeing Roddy White run past the entire secondary. They taking bad angles b/c there lack of speed. Nate, Lewis, Spencer, Bly, and Brown aren't fast. And how does average yards per attempt defines speed.

Originally posted by RichnSanRamon:
I see more and more in the media that the Niners lack team speed on defense.

Obviously team speed on the D-Line is not the issue, nor at LB -- not with Lawson and Willis roaming around. No, to say the Niners defense lacks team speed is an indictment of the DB's.

So, guilty or not guilty?

Speaking for myself, I've watched every play this year at least once, and while I've seen big plays against the Niners, I have not seen a WR pull away from any of the DB's in a flat out footrace. I've seen them get behind the CB when the CB slows down to look back at the QB, or the CB is playing a zone facing the line of scrimmage. But that's not a speed issue. I've seen our safeties take a bad angle, but that is not a speed issue.

But I'm a Niner fan, so I may well be seeing what I want to see, not what really is.

So let's check the stats. If the secondary is slow, then you'd think the Niners are getting smoked on pass plays, right? And remember that the myth is that they lack team speed generally, not just against one team or another, but as a general proposition, so the problem should show up even if we use averages to smooth out the peaks and valleys of individual games.

So the key stat is how many yards the other teams average against the Niners defense on each passing attempt (yards per attempt).

According to NFL.com, the Niners give up the same yards per pass play as the Vikings and the Giants -- all three are tied for 19th out of 32. Do the Vikings and Giants lack team speed? I haven't heard that.

The Niners give up two TENTHS of a yard (that's 7 inches) more per pass play than the median (that is, the 16th overall pass defenses). The 16th overall teams? The Cowboys, Patriots, and Redskins. Do they lack team speed? I haven't heard that.

You could argue that the Niners ferocious pass rush covers up for the lack of team speed on the back end, but that would be absurd because the Niners have an average pass rush, at best.

Lack of team speed on defense? Myth.

Either you are watching the games on a 1945 12in black and white or drinking a fifth of JD before kick off. I watch every play also, and have constantly seen our DBs get out run and lack closing speed on anyone who breaks in the clear. The Atlanta game was a good example. Roddy White made the 49er secondary look like they were running on a treadmill when they were chasing him.

Originally posted by RonMexico:
Yes, stats tell you if a team has speed.

Niner talk at it's f**king finest.





Our secondary is slow.... don't over think it

lol srsly

stats don't mean s**t, watch the f**king games

We have been burned by some sorry wrs and some good ones. That is unacceptable.

Originally posted by RichnSanRamon:
I see more and more in the media that the Niners lack team speed on defense.

Obviously team speed on the D-Line is not the issue, nor at LB -- not with Lawson and Willis roaming around. No, to say the Niners defense lacks team speed is an indictment of the DB's.

So, guilty or not guilty?

Speaking for myself, I've watched every play this year at least once, and while I've seen big plays against the Niners, I have not seen a WR pull away from any of the DB's in a flat out footrace. I've seen them get behind the CB when the CB slows down to look back at the QB, or the CB is playing a zone facing the line of scrimmage. But that's not a speed issue. I've seen our safeties take a bad angle, but that is not a speed issue.

But I'm a Niner fan, so I may well be seeing what I want to see, not what really is.

So let's check the stats. If the secondary is slow, then you'd think the Niners are getting smoked on pass plays, right? And remember that the myth is that they lack team speed generally, not just against one team or another, but as a general proposition, so the problem should show up even if we use averages to smooth out the peaks and valleys of individual games.

So the key stat is how many yards the other teams average against the Niners defense on each passing attempt (yards per attempt).

According to NFL.com, the Niners give up the same yards per pass play as the Vikings and the Giants -- all three are tied for 19th out of 32. Do the Vikings and Giants lack team speed? I haven't heard that.

The Niners give up two TENTHS of a yard (that's 7 inches) more per pass play than the median (that is, the 16th overall pass defenses). The 16th overall teams? The Cowboys, Patriots, and Redskins. Do they lack team speed? I haven't heard that.

You could argue that the Niners ferocious pass rush covers up for the lack of team speed on the back end, but that would be absurd because the Niners have an average pass rush, at best.

Lack of team speed on defense? Myth.

Brosif we are F'in slow.. I remember Roddy White burning the s**t out of us.

Originally posted by Stevec9932:

Originally posted by RichnSanRamon:
I see more and more in the media that the Niners lack team speed on defense.

Obviously team speed on the D-Line is not the issue, nor at LB -- not with Lawson and Willis roaming around. No, to say the Niners defense lacks team speed is an indictment of the DB's.

So, guilty or not guilty?

Speaking for myself, I've watched every play this year at least once, and while I've seen big plays against the Niners, I have not seen a WR pull away from any of the DB's in a flat out footrace. I've seen them get behind the CB when the CB slows down to look back at the QB, or the CB is playing a zone facing the line of scrimmage. But that's not a speed issue. I've seen our safeties take a bad angle, but that is not a speed issue.

But I'm a Niner fan, so I may well be seeing what I want to see, not what really is.

So let's check the stats. If the secondary is slow, then you'd think the Niners are getting smoked on pass plays, right? And remember that the myth is that they lack team speed generally, not just against one team or another, but as a general proposition, so the problem should show up even if we use averages to smooth out the peaks and valleys of individual games.

So the key stat is how many yards the other teams average against the Niners defense on each passing attempt (yards per attempt).

According to NFL.com, the Niners give up the same yards per pass play as the Vikings and the Giants -- all three are tied for 19th out of 32. Do the Vikings and Giants lack team speed? I haven't heard that.

The Niners give up two TENTHS of a yard (that's 7 inches) more per pass play than the median (that is, the 16th overall pass defenses). The 16th overall teams? The Cowboys, Patriots, and Redskins. Do they lack team speed? I haven't heard that.

You could argue that the Niners ferocious pass rush covers up for the lack of team speed on the back end, but that would be absurd because the Niners have an average pass rush, at best.

Lack of team speed on defense? Myth.

Brosif we are F'in slow.. I remember Roddy White burning the s**t out of us.

Not only that, but on the same play Michael Jenkins a possession receiver blowing by Clements and Roman while running downfield to block.

I would also like to note that our LBers are very slow too. Spikes may be the slowest LB in the game. Lawson is rarely used in coverage and even when he is, he's been burned ALL season esp. by speedy edge-RB's and TE's. Willis, for as fast as he is, is ALWAYS trailing a receiver (but is good at stripping the ball sometimes) but that's not a speed issue as much as it is a poor recognition or bad angle on the play and Haralson, well, yeah...

I agree that Lewis may be the slowest safety in the game, Goldson is almost always late in coverage (though both are good playing up at the LOS and against the run). Spencer has played terrific this year but even he seems to trail WR's at times or just a hair off. Roman, well, that's a given. Bly is average but makes up for his lack of speed with veteran savy and Clements, since we got him, always seems to find himself behind WR's playing catchup.

We're equipped to be good against the run (Clements included) but terrible in coverage whether we have a semblence of pass rush or not.

Another sign of good team speed is RB's not getting outside, WR's not exploiting crossing patterns or deep outs and TE's destroying the middle of the field. This has NOT been the case this year - in fact, we may have the softest middle zone coverage in the game and that is WITH Willis in coverage too.

Finally, the most telling sign of team speed is team defensive tackling; that is, when a RB get's tackled, there are 6+ guys making the tackle at about the same time. For us, if that first guy can't make the tackle, it's almost ALWAYS a huge gain. That's a lack of team speed, poor recognition, an inability to get off blocks, poor scheme/coaching, etc.

But make no mistake about it - we have poor team speed/defense.

If we had good team speed it seems like we could find someone fast to return punts and kick-offs. We lack team speed on both defense and offense. I'd love to see C. J. Spiller or Jahvid Best on the offense and a fast CB or S on the defense from the draft.

Originally posted by RonMexico:
Yes, stats tell you if a team has speed.

Niner talk at it's f**king finest.





Our secondary is slow.... don't over think it

Aside from Willis, LBs(Spikes, Brooks, Haralson, Manny) are slow too. I know Manny has straight ahead speed but is often seen chasing RB's and TE's after the catch because he lacks lateral speed and quickness.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I would also like to note that our LBers are very slow too. Spikes may be the slowest LB in the game. Lawson is rarely used in coverage and even when he is, he's been burned ALL season esp. by speedy edge-RB's and TE's. Willis, for as fast as he is, is ALWAYS trailing a receiver (but is good at stripping the ball sometimes) but that's not a speed issue as much as it is a poor recognition or bad angle on the play and Haralson, well, yeah...

I agree that Lewis may be the slowest safety in the game, Goldson is almost always late in coverage (though both are good playing up at the LOS and against the run). Spencer has played terrific this year but even he seems to trail WR's at times or just a hair off. Roman, well, that's a given. Bly is average but makes up for his lack of speed with veteran savy and Clements, since we got him, always seems to find himself behind WR's playing catchup.

We're equipped to be good against the run (Clements included) but terrible in coverage whether we have a semblence of pass rush or not.

Another sign of good team speed is RB's not getting outside, WR's not exploiting crossing patterns or deep outs and TE's destroying the middle of the field. This has NOT been the case this year - in fact, we may have the softest middle zone coverage in the game and that is WITH Willis in coverage too.

Finally, the most telling sign of team speed is team defensive tackling; that is, when a RB get's tackled, there are 6+ guys making the tackle at about the same time. For us, if that first guy can't make the tackle, it's almost ALWAYS a huge gain. That's a lack of team speed, poor recognition, an inability to get off blocks, poor scheme/coaching, etc.

But make no mistake about it - we have poor team speed/defense.

There's a difference in playing speed and combine speed. Lawson ran a 4.48 40, but does not translate it on the field because he does not diagnose plays quickly. On passing plays Lawson has poor recognition and takes bad angles much like Willis.

Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I would also like to note that our LBers are very slow too. Spikes may be the slowest LB in the game. Lawson is rarely used in coverage and even when he is, he's been burned ALL season esp. by speedy edge-RB's and TE's. Willis, for as fast as he is, is ALWAYS trailing a receiver (but is good at stripping the ball sometimes) but that's not a speed issue as much as it is a poor recognition or bad angle on the play and Haralson, well, yeah...

I agree that Lewis may be the slowest safety in the game, Goldson is almost always late in coverage (though both are good playing up at the LOS and against the run). Spencer has played terrific this year but even he seems to trail WR's at times or just a hair off. Roman, well, that's a given. Bly is average but makes up for his lack of speed with veteran savy and Clements, since we got him, always seems to find himself behind WR's playing catchup.

We're equipped to be good against the run (Clements included) but terrible in coverage whether we have a semblence of pass rush or not.

Another sign of good team speed is RB's not getting outside, WR's not exploiting crossing patterns or deep outs and TE's destroying the middle of the field. This has NOT been the case this year - in fact, we may have the softest middle zone coverage in the game and that is WITH Willis in coverage too.

Finally, the most telling sign of team speed is team defensive tackling; that is, when a RB get's tackled, there are 6+ guys making the tackle at about the same time. For us, if that first guy can't make the tackle, it's almost ALWAYS a huge gain. That's a lack of team speed, poor recognition, an inability to get off blocks, poor scheme/coaching, etc.

But make no mistake about it - we have poor team speed/defense.

There's a difference in playing speed and combine speed. Lawson ran a 4.48 40, but does not translate it on the field because he does not diagnose plays quickly. On passing plays Lawson has poor recognition and takes bad angles much like Willis.

Great point. People see a 40 time and go by that, just like Al Davis.

Originally posted by lamontb:
Nice post well presented but I feel incorrect. I remember seeing Roddy White run past the entire secondary. They taking bad angles b/c there lack of speed. Nate, Lewis, Spencer, Bly, and Brown aren't fast. And how does average yards per attempt defines speed.

And on that play Jenkins came in and out ran our DBs to get in position to block. We are slow, very slow. Did anyone see Jackson last Sunday? That guy had seperation all day. And it wasnt from double moves or good route running either.

Well, I obviously disagree with most of you, but I certainly will add a large amount of JD to my Niners experience.