3rd down conversions

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by bzborow1:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I would just like to note that the MIN game 0-11 3rd downs was put a lot on Shaun Hill. I think it is safe to say that Smith needs to play smarter and convert some of these.

To be fair it sure looked like a lot of 3rd down patterns were either run incorrectly or called incorrectly. When we need 5 yards we got 4, when we needed 10 we got 8, etc...

This looks to be part of J-Raye's play calling. If you remember, we saw the same thing when Hill was starting. Most of his 3rd down passes were completions (he actually had a very high completion % on this down); but, these completions were short of the first by 1 to 2 yards.

Now, I am a J-Raye supporter. I like his willingness to listen to the players and adapt the O to match the guys he has; but, he too has some work to do in this area.

Yeah but a lot of people on here were saying it was because Hill doesn't have a strong arm.

LOL, yeah I remember that. Well I hope they now know the truth...

3rd dows need to be one of the main areas of focus this off season!

Is it just me or does Smith look like his sphincter muscles are a little tight when he breaks the huddle and walks to the line on 3rd down attempts?

Lots of blame to share on the 3rd down conversion failures, but I sense that Smith is the biggest part of the problem. Geez, could he just project a little self-confidence walking up to the line, to inspire his teammates a little?! Smith seems to me to be clearly less confident on 3rd down plays, than he does on 1st, 2nd or even 4th down plays. And he's been that way for a long time.

Originally posted by niners_guy:
Without looking at stats.. it seems to me that we've been great on 4th down this year, but stink on 3rd down.

In my opinion, it's because we don't get good yardage on 1st and 2nd downs. At the beginning of the year, we were running to get "no gain" on 1st and 2nd down. This last part of the year, Alex seems to be doing okay throwing the ball down the field, but isn't hitting his checkdowns as much as we'd like. Against the Eagles, in particular, he was taking a lot of shots down the field. I LIKE that because it gives the opposing defense something to think about. Frank Gore had a lot more room to run and that was nice, but we ended up with 2nd/3rd and longs. I think Alex needs to learn WHEN it's a good time to take a shot, and when it's a good time to just dump it off. This comes with knowing how the offense works.

I think it's about figuring our balance this year... How much run and how much pass? How much of the time do we throw deep, how much do we just dump off? How much Delanie Walker, how much Moran Norris? etc. etc.

I really DO feel good about this. Also, like someone said, we have young WRs. They're used to running a certain distance for their routes. A more experienced WR would extend their route just a little bit so they have a better chance of reaching the first down marker.

we rule at them

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by bzborow1:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I would just like to note that the MIN game 0-11 3rd downs was put a lot on Shaun Hill. I think it is safe to say that Smith needs to play smarter and convert some of these.

To be fair it sure looked like a lot of 3rd down patterns were either run incorrectly or called incorrectly. When we need 5 yards we got 4, when we needed 10 we got 8, etc...

This looks to be part of J-Raye's play calling. If you remember, we saw the same thing when Hill was starting. Most of his 3rd down passes were completions (he actually had a very high completion % on this down); but, these completions were short of the first by 1 to 2 yards.

Now, I am a J-Raye supporter. I like his willingness to listen to the players and adapt the O to match the guys he has; but, he too has some work to do in this area.

Yeah but a lot of people on here were saying it was because Hill doesn't have a strong arm.

LOL, yeah I remember that. Well I hope they now know the truth...

What's even worse is that we are 5 for 30 something on 3rd downs in the last 3 games. Yeah, it must have been Hill's fault this time also.

IMO this is the single most important 2009 stat. Below is the 3rd conversion rate of the bottom 5 teams in the league and their record

28. St Louis 32.3% 1-15
29 San Francisco 29.8% 8-8
30. Oakland 29.6% 5-11
31. Kansas City 27.3% 4-12
32. Buffalo 25.8% 6-10

If we can find a way to be in the middle of the pack for 2010, we will get in the playoffs. If can't fix this issue, we only get in the playoffs due to a week division.

Solutions?

Hopefully, its the addition of Iupati and Davis that can get a push and give Gore (or Dixon) a chance to pick-up those all important 3rd and shorts. Also, Alex getting to stay in the same offensive system for the first time.

I knew we were bad on 3rd downs, but I had no idea it was that bad.........

Alex in the system another year, new linemen, and new offensive line Coaches Solari and Brown should make move that stat way up from last year...........There's no where to go but up..........

we should improve on this stat with luapati and davis and a healthy staley back also the addition of anthony dixon and byham we have 2 good blocking te's instead of 2nd 9 or 10 it'll be 2nd and 5 or 6 our offense was so predictable last year this year we have some weapons to open things up morgan crabtree one side and v.davis ginn on the other someone s going to be open gore out the backfield safeties have to play back now can't load up the box

when our new o-linemen come into their own 3rd down efficiency will not be a problem.

Bottom line is we had WAY too many third and longs. That was because our first two downs were spend running between the guards. We led the NFL in running between the guards. You can check this out, I am not making it up. So what did every NFL defensive genius do? Stack the box! Poor Gore just kept running into lots of angry defensive players at the L.O.S. When we did pass, we have a QB that likes to roll to the right. What team had the worst RT in the NFL for sacks allowed? You guessed it, the Forty Niners. I didn't make that up either. Synder led the NFL in sacks allowed! When Smith entered the Texan's game after half, we stopped running JUST between the guards and we almost came back to beat them. Hopefully our O-line is better, Smith will improve, AND we STOP trying to lead the NFL in rushing attempts between the freaking guards! CHRIST, frosh football coaches do better than that!

We just cant be predictable on first and 2nd downs like last year, its so important. That bveing said, with all these weapons, teams are going to have to respect our playmakers.

Damn we were THAT bad! New additions when they start clicking should fix that. In doing so our defense will stay fresher and more lethal when they get out on the field.

Well, i am the one who has made a 2 yr effort to try and convince others, and maybe even the 49ers staff( i doubt they ever read a word written here) that our salvation lay in building the OL and scot's insistence on being able to draft starting OGs in 2nd and third rds was ridiculous. Look at our results. We have one bonafide starter, and that is Staley...our one OL taken in first rd, and 28th at that. My point has been if we want good OLs, we have to pay for them with 1st rd picks...and we did. I predicted OT/ iupati, not really knowing who was better after Okung(he was way to costly for us, at our #13 probably plus our first pick next yr.) Whether it was trent williams or AD , i did know we would have to trade up to get our man. My guess was to # 8, which was 3 spots too high, in that some other teams chose to draft CB or DB once Rams got their QB and Suh and McCoy were taken. i do feel that had we not moved up either miami or their pick traded down would see AD gone. Hats off to baalke for making that move, tho he got criticized by some. It was the right move.

Now, with an OL of 3 first rounders, plus chilo(and Sims has proved he can start), all we really need to know is "can heitmann play"? If so, our 3rd down conversion rate is going from essentially 30th(with Raids) to top 25% ... maybe even better. I concur with statement above that instead of 2nd and 9 or 3rd and 5 we will be in 2nd and 5 and 3rd and 2. And i fully expect this OL to get that 2 yds...or 3 most of the time. We got an OL that can move people (well, maybe not heitmann), and frank should have a field day. Anything less than this will be a huge disappointment based on how we drafted. Then, once we get the running game going, you don't have to be johnny unitas to complete passes against a D prepared for more runs. That has been the beauty of drafting OLs in the first rd...you get smash mouth football. I saw a lot more of poti than AD last yr, but if AD is even close in talent, 3rd down conversion worries will become a thing of the past. The solari/bigRay hires was a hint of what was to come. Foerster leaving was a Godsend. BigMIke intended to retain him(or so i heard)...yikes.

On the face of it, 29th/30th on 3rd down tries is a disgrace, and it reflects generally on the mgmts non ability to draft starting OLs. Clown is gone. Baalke is here...and the man has his priorities straight, unlike scot. "Build lines first" isn' t just a cute line. It is truth. And we will see that play out as our yr goes along. NO mas virtually last in the league in 3rd down conversions. NO mas 8 in the box. NO mas QB muggings. The fortunes of the 49ers have changed. We are on the path. Now we can see what alex has ... or doesn't . My guess is the guy who gutted out playing with a separated shoulder is going to take advantage of his OL and will be a very good qb for us. Thank God we didn't do our standard BPA draft, instead going bPA based on position of need. Watch our 3rd dwn cnvrsion rate skyrocket...altho, the ride may be a bit bumpy the first 4 games or so.

Originally posted by stevenking57:
Bottom line is we had WAY too many third and longs. That was because our first two downs were spend running between the guards. We led the NFL in running between the guards. You can check this out, I am not making it up. So what did every NFL defensive genius do? Stack the box! Poor Gore just kept running into lots of angry defensive players at the L.O.S. When we did pass, we have a QB that likes to roll to the right. What team had the worst RT in the NFL for sacks allowed? You guessed it, the Forty Niners. I didn't make that up either. Synder led the NFL in sacks allowed! When Smith entered the Texan's game after half, we stopped running JUST between the guards and we almost came back to beat them. Hopefully our O-line is better, Smith will improve, AND we STOP trying to lead the NFL in rushing attempts between the freaking guards! CHRIST, frosh football coaches do better than that!

i agree on the 3rd and long thing, its wayyyyyy to predictable when u get in that down and distance its always a screen or a draw or a check down

[ Edited by crabman82 on May 6, 2010 at 21:27:34 ]