How the 49ers won 5 Super Bowls in 14 years.

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Barrowed this from Pacifist Viking-


How the 49ers won 5 Super Bowls in 14 years
I don't think the Free Agency/Salary Cap Era (FA/SC) really makes it more difficult for great teams to maintain dominance. You will sometimes hear "conventional wisdom" that before the FA/SC, great teams were able to hoard their talented players because there was no salary cap and no free agency. This isn't entirely true: the San Francisco 49ers, for example, won five Super Bowls between 1981 and 1994 not because they hoarded the same players, but because they consistently drafted well and added talent to maintain their dominance.

The 49ers won the Super Bowl for the 1981 season. They won the Super Bowl again for the 1984 season. Look at who they drafted between those championships. In the 1982, 1983, and 1984 drafts, they drafted starters on the 1984 championship team like Bubba Paris (T), Roger Craig (RB), and Riki Ellison (LB). They won the Super Bowl for the 1988 season with starters like '83 draft pick Jesse Sapolu (G), '84 draft pick Guy McIntyre (G), '85 draft pick Jerry Rice (WR), '86 draft pick Tom Rathman (FB), '86 draft pick Charles Haley (DE), '86 draft pick Steve Wallace (T), '86 draft pick John Taylor (WR), '86 draft pick Tim McKyer (CB), '86 draft pick Kevin f*gan (DE), '86 draft pick Don Griffin (CB), '87 draft pick Harris Barton (T), and '86 draft pick Larry Roberts (DE).
So after winning a championship in the '84 season, the 49ers won another championship in 1988 with 10 starters that they drafted AFTER 1984 (including 8 Super Bowl starters from the 1986 draft--arguably the most successful draft ever). The 49ers won again in 1989 with a similar nucleus. It took a few years, but in 1994 they won again with more new players like CB Eric Davis ('90), Ricky Watters ('91), Merton Hanks ('91), Dana Stubblefield ('93), Bryant Young ('94), William Floyd ('94), and Lee Woodall ('94).

This isn't even a comprehensive, thorough list: I briefly matched Super Bowl starting lineups with the 49ers' Draft History. But this brief look should show clearly that the 49ers didn't merely hoard their talent to win all those Super Bowls. They consistently added talented players in order to maintain dominance, even before the FA/SC era.

Consider this: 1981 championship team and the 1989 championship team shared just two starters (Joe Montana and Ronnie Lott). In a matter of nine seasons, these two championship squads turned over 20 of 22 starters.

Did the 49ers benefit from lack of salary cap and lack of risk of losing players to free agency? Perhaps. But considering they won four championships in nine years by replacing 20 of 22 starters, I doubt they merely hoarded their talented players. The 1994 team played in the FA/SC era, and added key free agents like Deion Sanders and Ken Norton, Jr., so if you'd like, you can even leave them out of the discussion. But between 1981 and 1989, the 49ers maintained long-term success very similarly to how teams maintain long-term success in the FA/SC era: they consistently added quality players to the roster to replace players who either left the team or saw their skills diminish.
Posted by Pacifist Viking at 1:22 AM

Do you think Scot can do this?

No. ON a scale from 1-10, we are at a 3.

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Barrowed this from Pacifist Viking-


How the 49ers won 5 Super Bowls in 14 years
I don't think the Free Agency/Salary Cap Era (FA/SC) really makes it more difficult for great teams to maintain dominance. You will sometimes hear "conventional wisdom" that before the FA/SC, great teams were able to hoard their talented players because there was no salary cap and no free agency. This isn't entirely true: the San Francisco 49ers, for example, won five Super Bowls between 1981 and 1994 not because they hoarded the same players, but because they consistently drafted well and added talent to maintain their dominance.

The 49ers won the Super Bowl for the 1981 season. They won the Super Bowl again for the 1984 season. Look at who they drafted between those championships. In the 1982, 1983, and 1984 drafts, they drafted starters on the 1984 championship team like Bubba Paris (T), Roger Craig (RB), and Riki Ellison (LB). They won the Super Bowl for the 1988 season with starters like '83 draft pick Jesse Sapolu (G), '84 draft pick Guy McIntyre (G), '85 draft pick Jerry Rice (WR), '86 draft pick Tom Rathman (FB), '86 draft pick Charles Haley (DE), '86 draft pick Steve Wallace (T), '86 draft pick John Taylor (WR), '86 draft pick Tim McKyer (CB), '86 draft pick Kevin f*gan (DE), '86 draft pick Don Griffin (CB), '87 draft pick Harris Barton (T), and '86 draft pick Larry Roberts (DE).
So after winning a championship in the '84 season, the 49ers won another championship in 1988 with 10 starters that they drafted AFTER 1984 (including 8 Super Bowl starters from the 1986 draft--arguably the most successful draft ever). The 49ers won again in 1989 with a similar nucleus. It took a few years, but in 1994 they won again with more new players like CB Eric Davis ('90), Ricky Watters ('91), Merton Hanks ('91), Dana Stubblefield ('93), Bryant Young ('94), William Floyd ('94), and Lee Woodall ('94).

This isn't even a comprehensive, thorough list: I briefly matched Super Bowl starting lineups with the 49ers' Draft History. But this brief look should show clearly that the 49ers didn't merely hoard their talent to win all those Super Bowls. They consistently added talented players in order to maintain dominance, even before the FA/SC era.

Consider this: 1981 championship team and the 1989 championship team shared just two starters (Joe Montana and Ronnie Lott). In a matter of nine seasons, these two championship squads turned over 20 of 22 starters.

Did the 49ers benefit from lack of salary cap and lack of risk of losing players to free agency? Perhaps. But considering they won four championships in nine years by replacing 20 of 22 starters, I doubt they merely hoarded their talented players. The 1994 team played in the FA/SC era, and added key free agents like Deion Sanders and Ken Norton, Jr., so if you'd like, you can even leave them out of the discussion. But between 1981 and 1989, the 49ers maintained long-term success very similarly to how teams maintain long-term success in the FA/SC era: they consistently added quality players to the roster to replace players who either left the team or saw their skills diminish.
Posted by Pacifist Viking at 1:22 AM

Do you think Scot can do this?

No. ON a scale from 1-10, we are at a 3.

A 3 out of 10 sounds about right

Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
Barrowed this from Pacifist Viking-


How the 49ers won 5 Super Bowls in 14 years
I don't think the Free Agency/Salary Cap Era (FA/SC) really makes it more difficult for great teams to maintain dominance. You will sometimes hear "conventional wisdom" that before the FA/SC, great teams were able to hoard their talented players because there was no salary cap and no free agency. This isn't entirely true: the San Francisco 49ers, for example, won five Super Bowls between 1981 and 1994 not because they hoarded the same players, but because they consistently drafted well and added talent to maintain their dominance.

The 49ers won the Super Bowl for the 1981 season. They won the Super Bowl again for the 1984 season. Look at who they drafted between those championships. In the 1982, 1983, and 1984 drafts, they drafted starters on the 1984 championship team like Bubba Paris (T), Roger Craig (RB), and Riki Ellison (LB). They won the Super Bowl for the 1988 season with starters like '83 draft pick Jesse Sapolu (G), '84 draft pick Guy McIntyre (G), '85 draft pick Jerry Rice (WR), '86 draft pick Tom Rathman (FB), '86 draft pick Charles Haley (DE), '86 draft pick Steve Wallace (T), '86 draft pick John Taylor (WR), '86 draft pick Tim McKyer (CB), '86 draft pick Kevin f*gan (DE), '86 draft pick Don Griffin (CB), '87 draft pick Harris Barton (T), and '86 draft pick Larry Roberts (DE).
So after winning a championship in the '84 season, the 49ers won another championship in 1988 with 10 starters that they drafted AFTER 1984 (including 8 Super Bowl starters from the 1986 draft--arguably the most successful draft ever). The 49ers won again in 1989 with a similar nucleus. It took a few years, but in 1994 they won again with more new players like CB Eric Davis ('90), Ricky Watters ('91), Merton Hanks ('91), Dana Stubblefield ('93), Bryant Young ('94), William Floyd ('94), and Lee Woodall ('94).

This isn't even a comprehensive, thorough list: I briefly matched Super Bowl starting lineups with the 49ers' Draft History. But this brief look should show clearly that the 49ers didn't merely hoard their talent to win all those Super Bowls. They consistently added talented players in order to maintain dominance, even before the FA/SC era.

Consider this: 1981 championship team and the 1989 championship team shared just two starters (Joe Montana and Ronnie Lott). In a matter of nine seasons, these two championship squads turned over 20 of 22 starters.

Did the 49ers benefit from lack of salary cap and lack of risk of losing players to free agency? Perhaps. But considering they won four championships in nine years by replacing 20 of 22 starters, I doubt they merely hoarded their talented players. The 1994 team played in the FA/SC era, and added key free agents like Deion Sanders and Ken Norton, Jr., so if you'd like, you can even leave them out of the discussion. But between 1981 and 1989, the 49ers maintained long-term success very similarly to how teams maintain long-term success in the FA/SC era: they consistently added quality players to the roster to replace players who either left the team or saw their skills diminish.
Posted by Pacifist Viking at 1:22 AM

Do you think Scot can get players like these or come close?

HELL NO.

He messed up a little though. He said between 81 and 89 we replaced 20 starters. I'm pretty sure that Keena Turner played for both teams. So that's 19 starters

I'll sign with a no.

God No! there wont be a team that wins 5 superbowls in that span of time ever again..i do agree that we are a 3 out of 10..maybe a 4

Because they had a good owner who put the best people in place to win at every level of the organization.

It would be great if they could do something close to that again.

So what's the point here?? Are you saying the draft the 49ers have not been up to par?? Are you saying the 49ers are haning on to too many older players??

Walsh knew football talent and how a player would fit into his system. He also HAD an offensive system that grew and changed with different players. Our defense was usually in the the top five OR better. Eddie financially supported getting players when available. Example: Last year we needed a R.T. badly, the Niners were pretty quiet about getting one. Eddie would have paid for the best one possible.

I think good drafting and philosophical continuity are the two keys to long term success. I don't think we've done a terrible job of drafting, especially in light of Vernon Davis and Alex Smith showing their potential this season.

To compare our drafting to the Walsh drafts of the 80s is a pretty tough comparison. I don't think we'll ever see a team draft that successfully again in our lifetime. That was just a special decade for us - the type of success that most of the league has NEVER experienced.

Having said that, continuity is just as important as drafting. In fact, I think the 2 are linked. The great teams have the same system in place year after year. Their coordinators stay the same or they are replaced with up and coming understudies when coordinators move on. It is much easier to draft the pieces when you know exactly how they're going to fit in the puzzle.

Drafting won the niners 2 super bowls and built the best team in the NFL from 88-90, but it was not the main reason they won in 81,84 or 94.

Walsh only had three drafts to build the 81 team. They won that SB partly because of luck (Walsh didn't want to draft Montana but his personnel guy talked him into it) and mostly because he completely changed football offensively in the 1980's. Same with 1984. Those were teams packed with solid role players. Walsh was the master of using the role-player in the most effective way.

Then the NFL caught up with Walsh in the mid 80's (by shifting to the 4-3 en masse) But by the mid 80's he was turning into a shrewd player evaluator and then beat teams in the late 80's with some truly amazing rosters.

After he left, they drafted poorly for a few years. In the offseason before the 93 and 94 seasons they went out and signed every talented player who was available and they were the first team to take advantage of FA in that way (although it came back to hurt them badly).

That is an overly simplistic explanation that doesn't hold water when you break it down.

Free spending owner in a non salary cap era, period.

HOF QB's is how.

Originally posted by stevenking57:
Walsh knew football talent and how a player would fit into his system. He also HAD an offensive system that grew and changed with different players. Our defense was usually in the the top five OR better. Eddie financially supported getting players when available. Example: Last year we needed a R.T. badly, the Niners were pretty quiet about getting one. Eddie would have paid for the best one possible.

instead we draft an RB over an OL or at least a pass rusher

[ Edited by BirdmanJr on Dec 9, 2009 at 09:07:32 ]