Breaking down 49ers 3rd downs against the Hawks-UPDATED W/2ND HALF

Good stuff.

Alex really needs to come through on the 3rd downs. Maybe with more game time and continuity on offense they can fix this problem.

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
Anyway, rewathcing the game, I decide to compile all the 3rd doens we had in the game. There are probably some mistakes there, because my copy of the game is really crappy, making it difficult for me to even recognize some players from a distance. Anyway, here's the first half:

Quote:


First Quarter

1 - First offensive series: 13:49 – 3rd and 10 – Shotgun with 3 WRs and Davis in the slot – Alex throws a swing pass to Gore after a little pump fake. Gore gets about 5 yards. Failed

2 – 11:39 – 3rd and 5 – Shotgun with 2 WRs and 2 TEs. All spread. Smith completes pass to Morgan for 6 yards. Successful

3 – 10:14 – 3rd and goal at the 1 – goaline formation – Playaction, Smith gets under heavy pressure due to a missed block by Moran Norris and gets rid of the Ball. The next play is the infamous no-call on Walker. Failed

4 – 7:40 – 3rd and 2 – Shotgun with 2 WRs and 2 TEs. All spread. Smith completes a short pass to Walker Who gets the first but the play is called back due to a pass interference on Vernon Davis. It’s then 3 and 12.

5 – 7:09 – 3rd and 12 – Shotgun with 3 WRs. Smith throws a beautiful pass to Crabtree Who runs a comeback. He seems a inch short but the ref gives him a bad spot (almost 2 yards short). Failed. On the next play, Smith hits Davis for the TD.

6 - :58 – 3rd and 4 – Shotgun with 3 WRs and 1 TE. The Seahwks blitz and puts pressure on Smith who tries a pass backp[edalling that goes to high to Crabtree. Failed

2nd quarter

7 – 4:21 – 3rd and 3 – Shotgun with 3 WRs and 1 TE. The seahawks send two LB on a blitz and forces Alex to thorw early to Crabtree. Don’t know why there wasn’t a hot read on the play. Failed.

8 - :52 – 3rd and 10 – Shotgun with 3 Wrs and 1 TE. Smith throws short to Morgan on a quick out. Gain of 4 yards. Failed.

Second half coming up later.

The only problem I see with this is its not a complete picture. Several of these third downs would have never taken place if the receivers hadn't dropped the 2nd down pass that would have gotten a first down. In order to see whats going on with the third down conversion rate, you have to look at what is leading up to those third downs as well.

Boy I wish we ran a little more on 3rd and 4 or less...

But yes, Alex needs to do better on 3rd downs. It's probably the one thing that I can nitpick on from the Seattle game.

-9fA

Quote:


First Quarter

4 – 7:40 – 3rd and 2 – Shotgun with 2 WRs and 2 TEs. All spread. Smith completes a short pass to Walker Who gets the first but the play is called back due to a pass interference on Vernon Davis. It’s then 3 and 12.



6 - :58 – 3rd and 4 – Shotgun with 3 WRs and 1 TE. The Seahwks blitz and puts pressure on Smith who tries a pass backp[edalling that goes to high to Crabtree. Failed

2nd quarter

7 – 4:21 – 3rd and 3 – Shotgun with 3 WRs and 1 TE. The seahawks send two LB on a blitz and forces Alex to thorw early to Crabtree. Don’t know why there wasn’t a hot read on the play. Failed.

I think these plays highlight a problem with too much shotgun. We have one of the best RBs in the league, but on 3rd and short, we aren't even threatening to use him. This allows the Seahawks to bring extra pressure and force incompletions.

Originally posted by Oregon49erfan:

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
Anyway, rewathcing the game, I decide to compile all the 3rd doens we had in the game. There are probably some mistakes there, because my copy of the game is really crappy, making it difficult for me to even recognize some players from a distance. Anyway, here's the first half:

Quote:


First Quarter

1 - First offensive series: 13:49 – 3rd and 10 – Shotgun with 3 WRs and Davis in the slot – Alex throws a swing pass to Gore after a little pump fake. Gore gets about 5 yards. Failed

2 – 11:39 – 3rd and 5 – Shotgun with 2 WRs and 2 TEs. All spread. Smith completes pass to Morgan for 6 yards. Successful

3 – 10:14 – 3rd and goal at the 1 – goaline formation – Playaction, Smith gets under heavy pressure due to a missed block by Moran Norris and gets rid of the Ball. The next play is the infamous no-call on Walker. Failed

4 – 7:40 – 3rd and 2 – Shotgun with 2 WRs and 2 TEs. All spread. Smith completes a short pass to Walker Who gets the first but the play is called back due to a pass interference on Vernon Davis. It’s then 3 and 12.

5 – 7:09 – 3rd and 12 – Shotgun with 3 WRs. Smith throws a beautiful pass to Crabtree Who runs a comeback. He seems a inch short but the ref gives him a bad spot (almost 2 yards short). Failed. On the next play, Smith hits Davis for the TD.

6 - :58 – 3rd and 4 – Shotgun with 3 WRs and 1 TE. The Seahwks blitz and puts pressure on Smith who tries a pass backp[edalling that goes to high to Crabtree. Failed

2nd quarter

7 – 4:21 – 3rd and 3 – Shotgun with 3 WRs and 1 TE. The seahawks send two LB on a blitz and forces Alex to thorw early to Crabtree. Don’t know why there wasn’t a hot read on the play. Failed.

8 - :52 – 3rd and 10 – Shotgun with 3 Wrs and 1 TE. Smith throws short to Morgan on a quick out. Gain of 4 yards. Failed.

Second half coming up later.

The only problem I see with this is its not a complete picture. Several of these third downs would have never taken place if the receivers hadn't dropped the 2nd down pass that would have gotten a first down. In order to see whats going on with the third down conversion rate, you have to look at what is leading up to those third downs as well.

This would be helpful.

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Boy I wish we ran a little more on 3rd and 4 or less...

But yes, Alex needs to do better on 3rd downs. It's probably the one thing that I can nitpick on from the Seattle game.

-9fA

Haha, nice. I obviously agree!

Originally posted by jb49ers80:
I think these plays highlight a problem with too much shotgun. We have one of the best RBs in the league, but on 3rd and short, we aren't even threatening to use him. This allows the Seahawks to bring extra pressure and force incompletions.

I agree. There's no need to be in a shotgun set on 3rd and 2. Play for the first down!!!

Updated.

Two things jumped about Alex out on me:

1- He played REALLY well. That 99-yard drive that ended with Gore's fumble was a thing of beauty.

2 - He was effective UNDER CENTER. I had this impression the first time I saw the game so this only confirmed it. So, sure enough I go over to footballoutsiders.com and find this:

Quote:
It's funny to see the perception of Alex Smith as a potential franchise quarterback change as his usage in the shotgun increases. Couldn't they have just stuck him in the shotgun two years ago? This week, though, Smith was actually pretty effective outside of the shotgun, going 7-of-13 for 126 yards with both his touchdowns; on the other hand, he came up short on a fourth-and-goal from the Seahawks 1-yard line from under center.

Keep in mind that the 4th down play he refers to was the no-call on Walker.

a lot of this can be traced to terrible situational play calling on 3rd and short, which a hand ful of the 1st/2nd Q plays were.

we should have ran out of the gun or start in an I-form or something. a dump off to frank or god forbid that dumb hand-off to moron norris. or hell a simple out or slant or something. i continue to think that raye is a terrible play caller though and has no concept of balance. how we go from all run to all pass is beyond me. there is something called in between. even if we are netting 2.5 yards per carry running the ball like 15 times a game is necessary. dont get me wrong i love watching a pass happy offense but you need some sembelence of a run, especially situationally.

dam foolish coaching.

Originally posted by Oregon49erfan:

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
Anyway, rewathcing the game, I decide to compile all the 3rd doens we had in the game. There are probably some mistakes there, because my copy of the game is really crappy, making it difficult for me to even recognize some players from a distance. Anyway, here's the first half:

Quote:


First Quarter

1 - First offensive series: 13:49 – 3rd and 10 – Shotgun with 3 WRs and Davis in the slot – Alex throws a swing pass to Gore after a little pump fake. Gore gets about 5 yards. Failed

2 – 11:39 – 3rd and 5 – Shotgun with 2 WRs and 2 TEs. All spread. Smith completes pass to Morgan for 6 yards. Successful

3 – 10:14 – 3rd and goal at the 1 – goaline formation – Playaction, Smith gets under heavy pressure due to a missed block by Moran Norris and gets rid of the Ball. The next play is the infamous no-call on Walker. Failed

4 – 7:40 – 3rd and 2 – Shotgun with 2 WRs and 2 TEs. All spread. Smith completes a short pass to Walker Who gets the first but the play is called back due to a pass interference on Vernon Davis. It’s then 3 and 12.

5 – 7:09 – 3rd and 12 – Shotgun with 3 WRs. Smith throws a beautiful pass to Crabtree Who runs a comeback. He seems a inch short but the ref gives him a bad spot (almost 2 yards short). Failed. On the next play, Smith hits Davis for the TD.

6 - :58 – 3rd and 4 – Shotgun with 3 WRs and 1 TE. The Seahwks blitz and puts pressure on Smith who tries a pass backp[edalling that goes to high to Crabtree. Failed

2nd quarter

7 – 4:21 – 3rd and 3 – Shotgun with 3 WRs and 1 TE. The seahawks send two LB on a blitz and forces Alex to thorw early to Crabtree. Don’t know why there wasn’t a hot read on the play. Failed.

8 - :52 – 3rd and 10 – Shotgun with 3 Wrs and 1 TE. Smith throws short to Morgan on a quick out. Gain of 4 yards. Failed.

Second half coming up later.

The only problem I see with this is its not a complete picture. Several of these third downs would have never taken place if the receivers hadn't dropped the 2nd down pass that would have gotten a first down. In order to see whats going on with the third down conversion rate, you have to look at what is leading up to those third downs as well.

How do the coach's not know this already? With all due respect to you and anyone else on the zone, if it is obvious to us, how the heck do these guys getting paid millions not see it?!?!?!? It is so frustrating. I am not in anyway saying I'm qualified to coach, but some of these really glaring mistakes or continual problems should not happen.