Cam Newton

Originally posted by 4ML:
I love me some Cam but that was a dumb thing to say. We have a female assistant coach in the NFL in 2017.

exactly

Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:
Whether or not it's true that most women have at best a rudimentary understanding of football (it's true), what he said was very insensitive and offensive. His comment was pointedly derisive--women on average not knowing as much about sports is probably to their credit: they're not obsessive nerds like us. And he specifically said it to a female sports reporter, so on a direct level he insinuated she's unqualified for her job because she is a woman. That is exactly what sexism is. Cam was negative stereotyping, which is simply hurtful and/or uncomfortable to hear.

I had an experience at work the other day where a white co-worker (I'm white too) kept complaining about his tasks, calling it "Mexican work." Whether or not it is common in California for Mexicans to do that sort of work, his complaining painted a negative stereotype since he was insinuating the work was beneath him but fit for a Mexican. I found myself deeply disturbed by his words, and I told my boss I will not work around him anymore. (I think he was let go as a result. He was a temp.) That kind of stuff is simply hateful, and regardless of the target of the hate or the nature of the stereotype, it is disturbing to hear.

I don't think Cam is a horrible dude or anything, but he needs to understand on a human level why what he said is offensive. I also question his intelligence for thinking he could say something like that at the podium without damaging his public image.

Nicely said, I agree with everything here.

I don't like this that his being dismissed as "America being too sensitive". This is not an example of the country being too sensitive. Being upset by someone wishing you "Merry Christmas"? That's overly-sensitive. Even if you're not religious, why can't you just accept it as well-wishes?

Cam -- I think -- was just making a joke. The joke was controversial. Jokes like that don't belong in a professional setting, because you can't be sure how they're going to be received by the recipient. Again, what Cam said did not offend me. I can think of many female friends who would laugh if I said something in that vein to them. However, he basically made this joke to a stranger, and even worse, did so while he was at work. This has nothing to do with (over)sensitivity, it's just basic common sense.

Her looks was likely the factor that's why I'm sticking with it was a sexist remark. He's essentially quipping you're suppose to give me an air head question not talk routes. Not that I think he should be stoned for it.

Originally posted by SFTifoso:

Originally posted by Morgan49:

Originally posted by gold49digger:
Wilson is a huge cuck and a phony good guy.

this I believe. He's gonna go wayward eventually...

TMZ is gonna film him with his boyfriend. Nothing no wrong with that, but for someone like him it'll be crushing.

Cam is just goofy, and has no filter. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

At least Cam lays it out there. Wilson is the type of guy that hides his real personality.

Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:

Whether or not it's true that most women have at best a rudimentary understanding of football (it's true)

Yes, it is true. That was the observation he made.

Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:

what he said was very insensitive and offensive. His comment was pointedly derisive--women on average not knowing as much about sports is probably to their credit: they're not obsessive nerds like us. And he specifically said it to a female sports reporter, so on a direct level he insinuated she's unqualified for her job because she is a woman. That is exactly what sexism is. Cam was negative stereotyping, which is simply hurtful and/or uncomfortable to hear.

Here's where we disagree. When he said "funny" I understood the term funny to mean "different". Funny, odd, different, not the norm etc. If he would've used the term "different" I think his observation may have been less offensive to people such as yourself (and the media) but you'd probably still label it "sexism".

Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:

I had an experience at work the other day where a white co-worker

Stop virtue signaling, please. Russ, is that you? I lost count of the amount of liberals that say Mexicans are hard workers on the farms and in yards across the nation. It's a widely promoted stereotype on all sides of the political spectrum. "They do the jobs Americans won't do". Democrat politicians themselves have said this. It's true, a large percentage of Mesoamericans work in low wage labor intensive jobs. Making that observation isn't racist. It's an objective observation. A fact.

Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:

I don't think Cam is a horrible dude or anything, but he needs to understand on a human level why what he said is offensive. I also question his intelligence for thinking he could say something like that at the podium without damaging his public image.

So he's a stupid sexist. Ya, I understand how all this works. It's especially easy to join the outrage when 90% of sports media is also virtue signaling. You're all such smart great people.

In reality most people not looking to score points in the identity politics game understand he was making an observation- that he doesn't often see women asking detailed questions about routes. If that happened frequently or was the norm he wouldn't have made the observation. You just made the same observation so by your own standards you're sexist. (In bold first paragraph)

Poor choice of words? Sure, I can see how identity warriors interpret it. People are doing this across the board these days which is the larger issue here. I don't think Cam intended to say women can't be good sports reporters. This is what many people WANT to hear when they listen to his comment.

Originally posted by gold49digger:

Originally posted by SFTifoso:

Originally posted by Morgan49:

Originally posted by gold49digger:

Wilson is a huge cuck and a phony good guy.

this I believe. He's gonna go wayward eventually...

TMZ is gonna film him with his boyfriend. Nothing no wrong with that, but for someone like him it'll be crushing.

Cam is just goofy, and has no filter. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

At least Cam lays it out there. Wilson is the type of guy that hides his real personality.

We're creating an Orwellian atmosphere where everyone must put up a fake "moral" facade (like Wilson).

In a couple decades the New-Left will have even more people worshiping at the alter of identity politics. They're currently moving down from college into high school and grade school. Promoting RightThink- trigger warnings, safe spaces and radical race/gender theory to younger and younger people.

The twitter/facebook outrage machine is just as absurd. Insufferable identity warriors stuck in perpetual outrage. This fake moral crusade has reached it's limits with me and many others. This new religion. This cult.


Calling the female reporter a racist is just as absurd. 99% of us have laughed at a racist joke at one point or another. Even the fake prudes lying about their moral purity. (This thread will bring them out of the woodwork)

The entire situation is ridiculous.

I was once ridiculed by a woman for not knowing what type of purse she was carrying that day. Then I realized it's not something I really should care about so I went back to playing football.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:

Whether or not it's true that most women have at best a rudimentary understanding of football (it's true), what he said was very insensitive and offensive. His comment was pointedly derisive--women on average not knowing as much about sports is probably to their credit: they're not obsessive nerds like us. And he specifically said it to a female sports reporter, so on a direct level he insinuated she's unqualified for her job because she is a woman. That is exactly what sexism is. Cam was negative stereotyping, which is simply hurtful and/or uncomfortable to hear.

I had an experience at work the other day where a white co-worker (I'm white too) kept complaining about his tasks, calling it "Mexican work." Whether or not it is common in California for Mexicans to do that sort of work, his complaining painted a negative stereotype since he was insinuating the work was beneath him but fit for a Mexican. I found myself deeply disturbed by his words, and I told my boss I will not work around him anymore. (I think he was let go as a result. He was a temp.) That kind of stuff is simply hateful, and regardless of the target of the hate or the nature of the stereotype, it is disturbing to hear.

I don't think Cam is a horrible dude or anything, but he needs to understand on a human level why what he said is offensive. I also question his intelligence for thinking he could say something like that at the podium without damaging his public image.

Nicely said, I agree with everything here.

I don't like this that his being dismissed as "America being too sensitive". This is not an example of the country being too sensitive. Being upset by someone wishing you "Merry Christmas"? That's overly-sensitive. Even if you're not religious, why can't you just accept it as well-wishes?

Cam -- I think -- was just making a joke. The joke was controversial. Jokes like that don't belong in a professional setting, because you can't be sure how they're going to be received by the recipient. Again, what Cam said did not offend me. I can think of many female friends who would laugh if I said something in that vein to them. However, he basically made this joke to a stranger, and even worse, did so while he was at work. This has nothing to do with (over)sensitivity, it's just basic common sense.

Why weren't you offended? If it's common sense to be offended everyone should be offended, right? If you weren't offended why the moral outrage? Are you simply less sensitive than others?

It's different to see female reporters delve into routes etc. That was his observation. I agree with his observation. I also think it's great that more women are getting into football. Both fans and within the media. It's a good thing. A newer development. Different than the long standing norm. I just saw a female broadcaster in the booth for the first time this season. It was different. A tad odd. Kinda "funny". (As in, outside of the norm). I welcome more well informed female broadcasters, sideline reporters and journalists.

Again, in my view he wasn't suggesting women can't be good sports reporters he was suggesting he doesn't often see women asking such specific questions. His suggestion is either true or false. Most people would agree that we don't often see female football reporters making detailed statements about routes etc. It doesn't mean women are incapable.

Replace the term "funny" with "different" and I think his intent becomes clear. In Cam Newtons experience it's "different" to see female reporters making detailed statements about routes. For Cam that statement reflects his experience as a professional NFL QB- a player who is asked questions every single week. On that day he experienced something different and made the "mistake" of pointing it out in a light hearted manner. That shouldn't cause widespread moral outrage nor should it cost him millions of dollars.

He wasn't suggesting she's unqualified or unable to understand the game he just thought it was different to see a female reporter make such statements in a sport that has traditionally been dominated by men. In a society where most women wouldn't make such statements.

OR he was saying all women don't have the capacity to understand football so in lieu of asking him questions they should be in the kitchen cooking him dinner.

Which one is more likley? Which one do you want to believe? It's like a Rorschach test. These days, when people look at the inkblots they see sexism and racism everywhere. Many times where it doesn't exist.

These same standards will eventually be expanded and applied to everyone. That's the larger issue. It's the only reason I care one way or another. That's not an atmosphere I'd particularly enjoy. A sort of identity obsessed Maoist like cultural witch hunt. People being publicly condemned for the slightest offense against proper thought and expression.

We're going full blown mental. I probably can't even say that without alarming the thought police.

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:
Why weren't you offended? If it's common sense to be offended everyone should be offended, right? If you weren't offended why the moral outrage? Are you simply less sensitive than others?

According to a recent study, women are paid 4-7% less than men in comparable positions. Would it be okay for Cam Newton to make a joke about the gender pay gap in a press conference? I mean, objectively it's true, so what's the harm in pointing out the observation and making light of it? (And please don't go on a tangent about the pay gap, I'm not trying to open that can of worms.) Do you think this would be appropriate for him to joke about in a press conference? Of course not, it's common sense.

You made the point that everyone is guilty about laughing at a racist joke at some point in their lives. Agreed, that's a great example. I have a dark sense of humor and love a racist joke. Do you think it would be okay for Cam Newton to make a racist joke at a press conference? I mean, let's say he was just having a little fun and was trying to make a good-natured joke, then is it okay? Is it appropriate for him to joke about it it in a press conference? Of course not, it's common sense.

I think there are many eye-rolling aspects of feminism, but I strongly believe that women reporters fight an uphill battle to be taken seriously. I'm not saying this based on some narrative pushed by the Association for Women Journalists, I'm basing this on my recurring observations; look at the comment section of any article/video featuring a female reporter and you will find it absolutely littered with comments about her looks (good or bad). Put yourself in her shoes. You ask a question, and Cam Newton laughs to himself in disbelief before answering. Is it appropriate for him to reply like that in a press conference? You yourself admitted "I can see why she felt patronized but that's due to a subjective interpretation of Cam's intent."

I don't know why you keep polarizing this issue. Stop making it a microcosm of the "liberal media destroying society". Stop polarizing it into these binary options of "Cam is sexist" or "haha, why are people so sensitive?" Those aren't the only two options. Demonizing Cam is wrong (I don't even think he had bad intentions), he was just a little aloof. I agree that people can be way too sensitive these days (e.g. "Merry Chrstimas", my previous example). You are accusing society of being too sensitive about everything, but I think you are just as guilty of pigeonholing this into "yet another thing for people to complain about" bucket.

So, yes, I strongly believe that it is common sense that he shouldn't have said this. In a professional environment, you walk on egg shells. You choose your words carefully. You don't joke about things like this. When you say something, you have to know your audience. Cam demonstrated a complete lack of common sense here by not choosing his words more carefully.

Dude dresses like a chick

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Why weren't you offended? If it's common sense to be offended everyone should be offended, right? If you weren't offended why the moral outrage? Are you simply less sensitive than others?

According to a recent study, women are paid 4-7% less than men in comparable positions. Would it be okay for Cam Newton to make a joke about the gender pay gap in a press conference? I mean, objectively it's true, so what's the harm in pointing out the observation and making light of it? (And please don't go on a tangent about the pay gap, I'm not trying to open that can of worms.) Do you think this would be appropriate for him to joke about in a press conference? Of course not, it's common sense.

Then don't open that can of worms as you just did. It's illegal to pay women less money for the exact same jobs with the exact same productivity. Further, he wasn't making a statement on womens pay or ability to be sports reporters. That's the entire point.

Originally posted by theduke85:

You made the point that everyone is guilty about laughing at a racist joke at some point in their lives. Agreed, that's a great example. I have a dark sense of humor and love a racist joke. Do you think it would be okay for Cam Newton to make a racist joke at a press conference? I mean, let's say he was just having a little fun and was trying to make a good-natured joke, then is it okay? Is it appropriate for him to joke about it it in a press conference? Of course not, it's common sense.

He didn't make a sexist joke. It was an observation that it's not common (in his experience) to see women analyzing routes. Replace the term "funny" with "different" and his point will be clear. You just don't want to see it. You just want to see a "sexist joke".

Originally posted by theduke85:

I think there are many eye-rolling aspects of feminism, but I strongly believe that women reporters fight an uphill battle to be taken seriously. I'm not saying this based on some narrative pushed by the Association for Women Journalists, I'm basing this on my recurring observations; look at the comment section of any article/video featuring a female reporter and you will find it absolutely littered with comments about her looks (good or bad).

Intenet comment sections have people posting from all over the world. Some are 14 years old. Some are crazy. Many aren't sober. Some are in Saudi Arabia. Some in The UK, Canada, Russia, Japan etc. Basing your view of American society off comment sections online is part of the overall problem on the left these days. Heck, a lot of the over the top racist comments come from social justice activists themselves. There's also extremely racist/sexist people in the world. Accept it. It will never change. These over the top reactions only give such people power. Cam Newton is not some sort of evil sexist and didn't deserve this backlash.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Put yourself in her shoes. You ask a question, and Cam Newton laughs to himself in disbelief before answering. Is it appropriate for him to reply like that in a press conference? You yourself admitted "I can see why she felt patronized but that's due to a subjective interpretation of Cam's intent."

I would probably agree with him and say "ya, more women are getting into football these days...isn't it great?". I wouldn't play the victim role, publicly pout then help gin up a mob of people demanding punitive actions.

Originally posted by theduke85:

I don't know why you keep polarizing this issue. Stop making it a microcosm of the "liberal media destroying society".

It's far worse than the "liberal media". All too many people are willing to act like moral puritans when they take part in the same sort of behavior. As was the case with this reporter. In fact, he wasn't joking about anything, he was making an observation that it's not common to see women analyzing routes. The reaction to that is an issue. Yes. A wider issue in todays society. Even if he was joking it would be no different than the "racist jokes" she enjoys. Her moral outage is fake and selective.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Stop polarizing it into these binary options of "Cam is sexist" or "haha, why are people so sensitive?"

That was a specific reaction to you saying he was offensive then in the next paragraph saying he didnt offend you. I was pointing out your inconsist logic. Which I'll do once more in a moment.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Demonizing Cam is wrong (I don't even think he had bad intentions), he was just a little aloof.

I'm glad you think demonizing Cam is wrong. Stop doing it.

Originally posted by theduke85:

I agree that people can be way too sensitive these days

Then stop feeding it.

Originally posted by theduke85:

I think you are just as guilty of pigeonholing this into "yet another thing for people to complain about" bucket.

No, more people need to point out how absurd these identity obsessed witch hunts have become. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention but stuff like this has become very common.

Originally posted by theduke85:

So, yes, I strongly believe that it is common sense that he shouldn't have said this. In a professional environment, you walk on egg shells. You choose your words carefully. You don't joke about things like this. When you say something, you have to know your audience. Cam demonstrated a complete lack of common sense here by not choosing his words more carefully.

Sure thing.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Demonizing Cam is wrong (I don't even think he had bad intentions), he was just a little aloof.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Again, what Cam said did not offend me.

You're just making straw man arguments at this point. I'm done.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by 4ML:

I love me some Cam but that was a dumb thing to say. We have a female assistant coach in the NFL in 2017.

exactly

Yes, exactly. The NFL has a female assistant. Not 10, 15 or 30. It's by far not the norm. There has only been two in the NFL's history. One was recently fired from the Bills and the 49ers employ the other. It's by far not the norm. She's also open about being the first lesbian assistant. Good for her. I welcome her and more humans like her on the team. She has my support 100%. We can hire any qualified person from any nation or background for all I care.


On Cam.

Some people are refusing to acknowledge the context here. In my opinion it was painfully obvious he was saying that it's different to see female journalists talking about routes in that manner.

Just as I thought it was different to see a female broadcaster in the booth on Monday Night Football. It was outside of the norm. Kinda funny. "Funny" as in "that's kinda funny looking". As in, "it doesn't seem the same as before".

When he said "it's funny to hear a female talk about routes" it was, in his eyes, a newer development. Something he hadn't noticed before.

Journalists have been asking him questions for years. If what she said was common there would be no reason to comment on it. In his experience he hadn't seen female reporters make those statements.


That's how I took it.


Should he have voiced his observation? Probably not (in order to avoid a s**tstorm like this). Was it meant to be sexist? I don't think so. Should he be crucified? Absolutely not.

Originally posted by theduke85:

You're just making straw man arguments at this point. I'm done.

How in the world have I made strawmen arguments? That's exactly what you did by saying I'm creating binary options.


My argument for you specifically is- if you're not offended by what he said and don't think he should be punished like this then stop feeding the narrative that he's offensive and should be punished.

On some level I think you understand the context of "funny" in Cam's statement. If he had used the term "different" I think he would've been better off.


"It's different to hear a female talk about routes"

Using the term "funny" opened the door for the outrage machine to claim he was degrading all women when that clearly wasn't his intent. Again, I think Cam was making an observation, not a sexist joke. He was not accustomed to hearing women talk about routes in such a way.


Now he is.

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:
My argument for you specifically is- if you're not offended by what he said and don't think he should be punished like this then stop feeding the narrative that he's offensive and should be punished.

I've written a lot of words in this thread. Please find one spot -- just one -- where I've said I think Cam Newton should be punished for this. Again, strawman. Also why are the choices "what he said is offensive, and he needs to be punished" or "what he said was fine, no punishment is necessary." Again, polarization. How about "what he said could be perceived as offensive, let's privately ask him to be more conscious about what he says -- no punishment is necessary though."

And seriously, I'm demonizing Cam Newton? Come on, that's rhetoric. That's the type of crap that's irritating me. Demonizing implies I think he's a bad person. I think nothing less of Newton after this. I think it was a mental lapse, a poor choice of words.

Asking him to watch his words or issue an apology is hardly "punishment". Nowhere have I said I think he should lose sponsorships, it's unfair that it came to that. Trust me, I hate the vigilante justice that comes along with social media as much as anyone; the backlash of the internet militia is always an order of magnitude higher than the offense.

Finally, at no point have I accused Cam Newton of being sexist. All I said was that it's not hard to see how he could come off as being sexist because of the fact that he laughed in a subjectively-condescending way before answering. This is why I keep repeating that I was not offended, but it's not hard to see how a woman was. I'm not overly-sensitive, it's basic empathy.

He laughed and reacted incredulously. If he had phrased it in a more sincere way ("Let me first say I appreciate seeing more and more female journalists, it's a testament to the growing diversity in the field"), I don't think there would've been any uproar, and it wouldn't have come off as a backhanded compliment like the actual one did. So, to be clear, I don't think the issue is taboo -- I just think his delivery was really poor and inconsiderate.