Solomon Thomas, DT

Originally posted by okdkid:
Even at his very worst...AA was better than Thomas has ever been.

Plus AA is not a tweener. Not to beat a dead horse but Solly isn't stout enough to be an effective run stuffer nor does he possess the speed and hand technique to be an effective pass rusher. He'll just be "a body" out there rotating in to spell the starters type of guy....nothing more, nothing less.

Yea even the play him inside crew has came to grips with the reality that he's a liability wherever you put him.

Originally posted by Niners418:

Let's see. 99% of the people here quit on Armstead after a slow start to his career and playing out of position. Holding out hope one day he progresses like AA when he's left alone inside

AA finally broke out in his 5th year.
And on IR what 3 or 4 out of 5 years..

So Sorry but yes, it's hard to wait over 4 years for a player to "break out".

I don't mind waiting thru mid year three, (It also depend on the position) but after that it's tough to maintain hope the player will develop.

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

Originally posted by Niners418:
Let's see. 99% of the people here quit on Armstead after a slow start to his career and playing out of position. Holding out hope one day he progresses like AA when he's left alone inside

AA finally broke out in his 5th year.
And on IR what 3 or 4 out of 5 years..

So Sorry but yes, it's hard to wait over 4 years for a player to "break out".

I don't mind waiting thru mid year three, (It also depend on the position) but after that it's tough to maintain hope the player will develop.

Thomas is just not that good. Why is there even a debate about this? And certainly not for where he was drafted. He's a bust. Let's just admit it and move on.

Looking at what Trubisky, foster and him have done, that trade was definitely a lose - lose for both the bears and us

Originally posted by pete98146:

Originally posted by okdkid:
Even at his very worst...AA was better than Thomas has ever been.

Plus AA is not a tweener. Not to beat a dead horse but Solly isn't stout enough to be an effective run stuffer nor does he possess the speed and hand technique to be an effective pass rusher. He'll just be "a body" out there rotating in to spell the starters type of guy....nothing more, nothing less.

You might try actually watching the games instead of just looking at box scores and making guesses.

You're completely wrong. Thomas is the best interior run defender on the team, and one of the best interior run defenders in all of football. He was one of the keys to stopping the Cardinals on that drive before the winning touchdown. First run, he fights off two blockers to make the stop for a 3.5 yard gain. Second run, he stacks the double team at the line of scrimmage (center and left guard), keeping Dre Greenlaw unblocked and allowing him to flow untouched to the ball. Bosa was unblocked on this play and got there first, but if he hadn't, Greenlaw would have gotten a solo instead of just an assist. And it was Thomas who made that happen.

The Cardinals' only success on the ground (other than the Kyler crap that nobody knows how to defend) came on a drive where Day and Taylor were the DTs, not Thomas. Day in particular has not done a very good job this year.

Thomas is the furthest thing from a tweener. He is as pure an interior defensive lineman as you will ever find. Stout and strong. He has interior run defense in his DNA. He's a squatty Australian guy and a weight room warrior. He played inside his whole career until the 49ers put the fish out of water. And the further inside he plays, the better he is. He's better at 0 and 1 technique than he is at 3. He's better at 3 than he is at 5. Etc.

You have it exactly backwards. Armstead is EXACTLY a tweener. He's too high cut and not strong enough to play inside every down in traditional times, and he's not fast and explosive enough for the edge. He's playing well this year as a pass rusher, but he's also benefitting a lot from the system and players around him.

Buckner, like Armstead, is also a tweener who has been somewhat of a liability at the point of attack since he came in the league. But that's blasphemous to point out. He's one of the better pass rushing DTs in the league, and he plays well east-west, but he struggles when you run right at him. Because you don't want basketball builds inside.

Thomas is much stronger than either them (check their weight room numbers, it's not even close), AND he has the higher BMI. That's what you people just don't get: The only reason Buckner and Armstead weigh more than him is they are much taller than him. They are not ideal DT size. Being 6'8" has never been ideal DT size. But they get away with it more now because traditional running isn't nearly as common as it used to be.

Thomas has the strength advantage and the leverage advantage, and it shows in run defense. Furthermore, the only difference between Thomas and the 6'2" 300 tackles around the league is Thomas has an extremely low body fat percentage. He could put on 30 pounds of blubber if he wanted to, but that wouldn't do anything but slow him down. 30 pounds of weight isn't the difference between winning and losing in the trenches. That's paper weight to big men. What matters is strength and technique.

Oh, and as far as pass rush is concerned: Thomas's QB hits per snaps ratio is similar to the other guys who play inside (he has 5, Armstead and Buckner have 9 each). He just doesn't get as many snaps as those guys. He could probably do similar things with a similar snap count.

Thomas is without question a starting caliber DT in this league. Elite when you run at him, elite when you run away from him, and an above average pass rusher from the inside as well. The only question now is whether you live with his cap figure next year (since most of his salary is a roster bonus, it can't be restructured…as far as I know). He provides starter-caliber depth backing up both NT and 3T.

Originally posted by JustWin2019:

Originally posted by pete98146:

Originally posted by okdkid:
Even at his very worst...AA was better than Thomas has ever been.

Plus AA is not a tweener. Not to beat a dead horse but Solly isn't stout enough to be an effective run stuffer nor does he possess the speed and hand technique to be an effective pass rusher. He'll just be "a body" out there rotating in to spell the starters type of guy....nothing more, nothing less.

You might try actually watching the games instead of just looking at box scores and making guesses.

You're completely wrong. Thomas is the best interior run defender on the team, and one of the best interior run defenders in all of football. He was one of the keys to stopping the Cardinals on that drive before the winning touchdown. First run, he fights off two blockers to make the stop for a 3.5 yard gain. Second run, he stacks the double team at the line of scrimmage (center and left guard), keeping Dre Greenlaw unblocked and allowing him to flow untouched to the ball. Bosa was unblocked on this play and got there first, but if he hadn't, Greenlaw would have gotten a solo instead of just an assist. And it was Thomas who made that happen.

The Cardinals' only success on the ground (other than the Kyler crap that nobody knows how to defend) came on a drive where Day and Taylor were the DTs, not Thomas. Day in particular has not done a very good job this year.

Thomas is the furthest thing from a tweener. He is as pure an interior defensive lineman as you will ever find. Stout and strong. He has interior run defense in his DNA. He's a squatty Australian guy and a weight room warrior. He played inside his whole career until the 49ers put the fish out of water. And the further inside he plays, the better he is. He's better at 0 and 1 technique than he is at 3. He's better at 3 than he is at 5. Etc.

You have it exactly backwards. Armstead is EXACTLY a tweener. He's too high cut and not strong enough to play inside every down in traditional times, and he's not fast and explosive enough for the edge. He's playing well this year as a pass rusher, but he's also benefitting a lot from the system and players around him.

Buckner, like Armstead, is also a tweener who has been somewhat of a liability at the point of attack since he came in the league. But that's blasphemous to point out. He's one of the better pass rushing DTs in the league, and he plays well east-west, but he struggles when you run right at him. Because you don't want basketball builds inside.

Thomas is much stronger than either them (check their weight room numbers, it's not even close), AND he has the higher BMI. That's what you people just don't get: The only reason Buckner and Armstead weigh more than him is they are much taller than him. They are not ideal DT size. Being 6'8" has never been ideal DT size. But they get away with it more now because traditional running isn't nearly as common as it used to be.

Thomas has the strength advantage and the leverage advantage, and it shows in run defense. Furthermore, the only difference between Thomas and the 6'2" 300 tackles around the league is Thomas has an extremely low body fat percentage. He could put on 30 pounds of blubber if he wanted to, but that wouldn't do anything but slow him down. 30 pounds of weight isn't the difference between winning and losing in the trenches. That's paper weight to big men. What matters is strength and technique.

Oh, and as far as pass rush is concerned: Thomas's QB hits per snaps ratio is similar to the other guys who play inside (he has 5, Armstead and Buckner have 9 each). He just doesn't get as many snaps as those guys. He could probably do similar things with a similar snap count.

Thomas is without question a starting caliber DT in this league. Elite when you run at him, elite when you run away from him, and an above average pass rusher from the inside as well. The only question now is whether you live with his cap figure next year (since most of his salary is a roster bonus, it can't be restructured…as far as I know). He provides starter-caliber depth backing up both NT and 3T.

HE'S BACK!!!

Originally posted by JustWin2019:
You might try actually watching the games instead of just looking at box scores and making guesses.

You're completely wrong. Thomas is the best interior run defender on the team, and one of the best interior run defenders in all of football. He was one of the keys to stopping the Cardinals on that drive before the winning touchdown. First run, he fights off two blockers to make the stop for a 3.5 yard gain. Second run, he stacks the double team at the line of scrimmage (center and left guard), keeping Dre Greenlaw unblocked and allowing him to flow untouched to the ball. Bosa was unblocked on this play and got there first, but if he hadn't, Greenlaw would have gotten a solo instead of just an assist. And it was Thomas who made that happen.

The Cardinals' only success on the ground (other than the Kyler crap that nobody knows how to defend) came on a drive where Day and Taylor were the DTs, not Thomas. Day in particular has not done a very good job this year.

Thomas is the furthest thing from a tweener. He is as pure an interior defensive lineman as you will ever find. Stout and strong. He has interior run defense in his DNA. He's a squatty Australian guy and a weight room warrior. He played inside his whole career until the 49ers put the fish out of water. And the further inside he plays, the better he is. He's better at 0 and 1 technique than he is at 3. He's better at 3 than he is at 5. Etc.

You have it exactly backwards. Armstead is EXACTLY a tweener. He's too high cut and not strong enough to play inside every down in traditional times, and he's not fast and explosive enough for the edge. He's playing well this year as a pass rusher, but he's also benefitting a lot from the system and players around him.

Buckner, like Armstead, is also a tweener who has been somewhat of a liability at the point of attack since he came in the league. But that's blasphemous to point out. He's one of the better pass rushing DTs in the league, and he plays well east-west, but he struggles when you run right at him. Because you don't want basketball builds inside.

Thomas is much stronger than either them (check their weight room numbers, it's not even close), AND he has the higher BMI. That's what you people just don't get: The only reason Buckner and Armstead weigh more than him is they are much taller than him. They are not ideal DT size. Being 6'8" has never been ideal DT size. But they get away with it more now because traditional running isn't nearly as common as it used to be.

Thomas has the strength advantage and the leverage advantage, and it shows in run defense. Furthermore, the only difference between Thomas and the 6'2" 300 tackles around the league is Thomas has an extremely low body fat percentage. He could put on 30 pounds of blubber if he wanted to, but that wouldn't do anything but slow him down. 30 pounds of weight isn't the difference between winning and losing in the trenches. That's paper weight to big men. What matters is strength and technique.

Oh, and as far as pass rush is concerned: Thomas's QB hits per snaps ratio is similar to the other guys who play inside (he has 5, Armstead and Buckner have 9 each). He just doesn't get as many snaps as those guys. He could probably do similar things with a similar snap count.

Thomas is without question a starting caliber DT in this league. Elite when you run at him, elite when you run away from him, and an above average pass rusher from the inside as well. The only question now is whether you live with his cap figure next year (since most of his salary is a roster bonus, it can't be restructured…as far as I know). He provides starter-caliber depth backing up both NT and 3T.

I can confirm the bolded.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
HE'S BACK!!!

And my post goes double for you.

It's ridiculous how you don't even bother to actually WATCH who is doing what, and instead just run in to go, "oh, rushing yards allowed, and I heard he's getting snaps inside. Hurrr durrr, I think he's weakening the run defense!"

And what happened this game should have been glaringly obvious to all, as they really only had one drive where they were allowing rushing yards to anyone other than Kyler Murray, and Thomas was not at DT on that drive (Day and Taylor were).

Originally posted by JustWin2019:

Originally posted by pete98146:

Originally posted by okdkid:

Even at his very worst...AA was better than Thomas has ever been.

Plus AA is not a tweener. Not to beat a dead horse but Solly isn't stout enough to be an effective run stuffer nor does he possess the speed and hand technique to be an effective pass rusher. He'll just be "a body" out there rotating in to spell the starters type of guy....nothing more, nothing less.

You might try actually watching the games instead of just looking at box scores and making guesses.

You're completely wrong. Thomas is the best interior run defender on the team, and one of the best interior run defenders in all of football. He was one of the keys to stopping the Cardinals on that drive before the winning touchdown. First run, he fights off two blockers to make the stop for a 3.5 yard gain. Second run, he stacks the double team at the line of scrimmage (center and left guard), keeping Dre Greenlaw unblocked and allowing him to flow untouched to the ball. Bosa was unblocked on this play and got there first, but if he hadn't, Greenlaw would have gotten a solo instead of just an assist. And it was Thomas who made that happen.

The Cardinals' only success on the ground (other than the Kyler crap that nobody knows how to defend) came on a drive where Day and Taylor were the DTs, not Thomas. Day in particular has not done a very good job this year.

Thomas is the furthest thing from a tweener. He is as pure an interior defensive lineman as you will ever find. Stout and strong. He has interior run defense in his DNA. He's a squatty Australian guy and a weight room warrior. He played inside his whole career until the 49ers put the fish out of water. And the further inside he plays, the better he is. He's better at 0 and 1 technique than he is at 3. He's better at 3 than he is at 5. Etc.

You have it exactly backwards. Armstead is EXACTLY a tweener. He's too high cut and not strong enough to play inside every down in traditional times, and he's not fast and explosive enough for the edge. He's playing well this year as a pass rusher, but he's also benefitting a lot from the system and players around him.

Buckner, like Armstead, is also a tweener who has been somewhat of a liability at the point of attack since he came in the league. But that's blasphemous to point out. He's one of the better pass rushing DTs in the league, and he plays well east-west, but he struggles when you run right at him. Because you don't want basketball builds inside.

Thomas is much stronger than either them (check their weight room numbers, it's not even close), AND he has the higher BMI. That's what you people just don't get: The only reason Buckner and Armstead weigh more than him is they are much taller than him. They are not ideal DT size. Being 6'8" has never been ideal DT size. But they get away with it more now because traditional running isn't nearly as common as it used to be.

Thomas has the strength advantage and the leverage advantage, and it shows in run defense. Furthermore, the only difference between Thomas and the 6'2" 300 tackles around the league is Thomas has an extremely low body fat percentage. He could put on 30 pounds of blubber if he wanted to, but that wouldn't do anything but slow him down. 30 pounds of weight isn't the difference between winning and losing in the trenches. That's paper weight to big men. What matters is strength and technique.

Oh, and as far as pass rush is concerned: Thomas's QB hits per snaps ratio is similar to the other guys who play inside (he has 5, Armstead and Buckner have 9 each). He just doesn't get as many snaps as those guys. He could probably do similar things with a similar snap count.

Thomas is without question a starting caliber DT in this league. Elite when you run at him, elite when you run away from him, and an above average pass rusher from the inside as well. The only question now is whether you live with his cap figure next year (since most of his salary is a roster bonus, it can't be restructured…as far as I know). He provides starter-caliber depth backing up both NT and 3T.

Reported for presenting a sound argument backed by game film.

Originally posted by JustWin2019:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
HE'S BACK!!!

And my post goes double for you.

It's ridiculous how you don't even bother to actually WATCH who is doing what, and instead just run in to go, "oh, rushing yards allowed, and I heard he's getting snaps inside. Hurrr durrr, I think he's weakening the run defense!"

And what happened this game should have been glaringly obvious to all, as they really only had one drive where they were allowing rushing yards to anyone other than Kyler Murray, and Thomas was not at DT on that drive (Day and Taylor were).

I admit I have yet to watch the all 22 from this week. There is a chance I might back off those statements a bit.

I've also broken down play by play of Thomas in the past so if you think I only look at box scores you don't know me very well.

But I think I've seen enough from Thomas to feel confident that you and others are overstating his run defense. Like people were about his game in Seattle last year where he had a couple of good plays against the worst starting lineman in the NFL. But considering you just called him one of the best interior run defenders in the NFL... it's pretty obvious which person between you and I will have a more unbiased opinion.

I actually do agree with several points you made. I was one of the few who said early on that I was worried about Buckners run defense and got blasted for it... but I'm guessing you weren't around then to see that.

So I rewatched the whole game and as I expected... my sentiment was correct.

But I should have clarified more about what I meant. IMO we have easily the most talented Dline in football and our best Dline doesn't have Thomas in it. Not our best run defense or pass defense. Thomas is more of a liability than Julian Taylor in the run game and if you take off your "3rd overall pick" colored glasses you will see that is 1000% true.

Thomas did not have a good game overall... he had a good series which you and others already pointed out. That series was two plays. He made one tackle and held his ground and allowed others to make the play the next.

Thomas played a lot and only amassed one tackle. That is not a fluke and other than one play besides the tackle... he literally did nothing in this game what so ever. He doesn't use his hands or disengage well, he loses track of the ball consistently, he gives up his back, he gets blocked by one lineman all the time, he never establishes a new line of scrimmage besides when he does his patented fire off so hard and then stop all hand usage and get engulfed. If you want time stamps for his negative plays lmk.

It seems like this is a theme that people want to find a couple of good plays but want to ignore his mistakes which are usually more frequent and costly than the positives. His excuse in the past was that he wasn't playing much but now he is and still not making a huge impact (except for two plays).

And I feel like I have to say this every time but it gets lost.

I think Thomas is an amazing person, he's from my favorite college team, I know he works hard, he's great for the locker room, and he is someone I root for because he is a 49er at the end of the day.

I just hate his skillset. Hate it. He's not one of the best interior run defenders. Not even close.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

So I rewatched the whole game and as I expected... my sentiment was correct.

But I should have clarified more about what I meant. IMO we have easily the most talented Dline in football and our best Dline doesn't have Thomas in it. Not our best run defense or pass defense. Thomas is more of a liability than Julian Taylor in the run game and if you take off your "3rd overall pick" colored glasses you will see that is 1000% true.

Thomas did not have a good game overall... he had a good series which you and others already pointed out. That series was two plays. He made one tackle and held his ground and allowed others to make the play the next.

Thomas played a lot and only amassed one tackle. That is not a fluke and other than one play besides the tackle... he literally did nothing in this game what so ever. He doesn't use his hands or disengage well, he loses track of the ball consistently, he gives up his back, he gets blocked by one lineman all the time, he never establishes a new line of scrimmage besides when he does his patented fire off so hard and then stop all hand usage and get engulfed. If you want time stamps for his negative plays lmk.

It seems like this is a theme that people want to find a couple of good plays but want to ignore his mistakes which are usually more frequent and costly than the positives. His excuse in the past was that he wasn't playing much but now he is and still not making a huge impact (except for two plays).

And I feel like I have to say this every time but it gets lost.

I think Thomas is an amazing person, he's from my favorite college team, I know he works hard, he's great for the locker room, and he is someone I root for because he is a 49er at the end of the day.

I just hate his skillset. Hate it. He's not one of the best interior run defenders. Not even close.

Totally agreed.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

So I rewatched the whole game and as I expected... my sentiment was correct.

But I should have clarified more about what I meant. IMO we have easily the most talented Dline in football and our best Dline doesn't have Thomas in it. Not our best run defense or pass defense. Thomas is more of a liability than Julian Taylor in the run game and if you take off your "3rd overall pick" colored glasses you will see that is 1000% true.

Thomas did not have a good game overall... he had a good series which you and others already pointed out. That series was two plays. He made one tackle and held his ground and allowed others to make the play the next.

Thomas played a lot and only amassed one tackle. That is not a fluke and other than one play besides the tackle... he literally did nothing in this game what so ever. He doesn't use his hands or disengage well, he loses track of the ball consistently, he gives up his back, he gets blocked by one lineman all the time, he never establishes a new line of scrimmage besides when he does his patented fire off so hard and then stop all hand usage and get engulfed. If you want time stamps for his negative plays lmk.

It seems like this is a theme that people want to find a couple of good plays but want to ignore his mistakes which are usually more frequent and costly than the positives. His excuse in the past was that he wasn't playing much but now he is and still not making a huge impact (except for two plays).

And I feel like I have to say this every time but it gets lost.

I think Thomas is an amazing person, he's from my favorite college team, I know he works hard, he's great for the locker room, and he is someone I root for because he is a 49er at the end of the day.

I just hate his skillset. Hate it. He's not one of the best interior run defenders. Not even close.

Great post.

Total bust , or a 4 year developmental Draft pick