NY Jets HC-Robert Saleh

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
The Seahawks/ Pete Carroll system is one that uses personnel not too different than a 3-4. It's a base 4-3 "under" defense. It's actually the same front George Seifert used a lot with the niners for so long(Pete was Seifert's DC for a bit). The big difference is that your weak side EMLOS has his hand in the dirt and will very rarely drop into coverage.

One of the bigger differences is that you don't have a "0" tech hardly ever but you do have a "1" tech a lot and your outside guys play more gap integrity than 2 gapping like we saw under fangio and mangini.

The SAM backer and weak side DEnd in a 4-3 under are similar to 3-4 OLB's but with more defined roles and aren't mirror players like you usually want with a 3-4. It's why guys who play in a 4-3 under can sometimes get signed as 3-4 OLB's.

My bigger question is, are we certain we're switching to a 4-3? I haven't seen any reports confirming, just speculation because of Saleh's connection to Seattle. But, he's worked in 3-4 as well. So, did I miss something that confirmed the switch?

Thank you! Yes, Kyle confirmed the move to a 4-3.

Based on our current personnel, who do you see lined up where?

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the assumption that one of the DTs and NT commonly 2 gap under carol's defense.

Originally posted by PacTiger:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

The Seahawks/ Pete Carroll system is one that uses personnel not too different than a 3-4. It's a base 4-3 "under" defense. It's actually the same front George Seifert used a lot with the niners for so long(Pete was Seifert's DC for a bit). The big difference is that your weak side EMLOS has his hand in the dirt and will very rarely drop into coverage.

One of the bigger differences is that you don't have a "0" tech hardly ever but you do have a "1" tech a lot and your outside guys play more gap integrity than 2 gapping like we saw under fangio and mangini.

The SAM backer and weak side DEnd in a 4-3 under are similar to 3-4 OLB's but with more defined roles and aren't mirror players like you usually want with a 3-4. It's why guys who play in a 4-3 under can sometimes get signed as 3-4 OLB's.

My bigger question is, are we certain we're switching to a 4-3? I haven't seen any reports confirming, just speculation because of Saleh's connection to Seattle. But, he's worked in 3-4 as well. So, did I miss something that confirmed the switch?

Thank you! Yes, Kyle confirmed the move to a 4-3.

Based on our current personnel, who do you see lined up where?

Correct me if I am wrong but I was under the assumption that one of the DTs and NT commonly 2 gap under carol's defense.

Here is a quote from Pete Carroll on his defense.

"I run (my 4-3 defense) with one gap principles but can also make it work with some two gap principles. In principle we want to give our players a chance to know exactly what they have to defend. We also want to give them an attitude in which to do that. We want to be an attacking, aggressive football team. We don't want to sit and read the play like you often have to with "two-gap" principles of play. We want to attack into the gap at the snap, get off the ball to play on their side of the field and get after the quarterback."

The big problem with any "one-gap" approach however is that it allows a ball carrier to get into the secondary if one guy makes a mistake. No matter how aggressive the defense is there is a great amount of discipline that goes with this defense. You have to be very strict about your positioning and the placement of your players. You have to have the ability to maintain relative spacing between your players."

Originally posted by Niners99:
Clearly we were talking about big ticket free agents. Cheap guys are signed all the time to fill spots.

My point is that the game changing free agents are ready to win now, and were not. I feel like ive said that 10 times, but people keep ignoring that fact. Dont pay a guy big money when 3 of the 4 or 5 contract years will be wasted on a rebuilding roster.

You make a good point but money talks...If you pay a player and pay him well he'll come no matter if the team is in rebuild, money talks.

We need to spend BIG on a stud NT and an edge pass rusher and fill in with less expensive guys elsewhere. Games are won by stopping the run and pressuring the QB. This year should be about rebuilding the defense.

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Here is a quote from Pete Carroll on his defense.

"I run (my 4-3 defense) with one gap principles but can also make it work with some two gap principles. In principle we want to give our players a chance to know exactly what they have to defend. We also want to give them an attitude in which to do that. We want to be an attacking, aggressive football team. We don't want to sit and read the play like you often have to with "two-gap" principles of play. We want to attack into the gap at the snap, get off the ball to play on their side of the field and get after the quarterback."

The big problem with any "one-gap" approach however is that it allows a ball carrier to get into the secondary if one guy makes a mistake. No matter how aggressive the defense is there is a great amount of discipline that goes with this defense. You have to be very strict about your positioning and the placement of your players. You have to have the ability to maintain relative spacing between your players."

Thanks for the update.

Originally posted by PacTiger:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Here is a quote from Pete Carroll on his defense.

"I run (my 4-3 defense) with one gap principles but can also make it work with some two gap principles. In principle we want to give our players a chance to know exactly what they have to defend. We also want to give them an attitude in which to do that. We want to be an attacking, aggressive football team. We don't want to sit and read the play like you often have to with "two-gap" principles of play. We want to attack into the gap at the snap, get off the ball to play on their side of the field and get after the quarterback."

The big problem with any "one-gap" approach however is that it allows a ball carrier to get into the secondary if one guy makes a mistake. No matter how aggressive the defense is there is a great amount of discipline that goes with this defense. You have to be very strict about your positioning and the placement of your players. You have to have the ability to maintain relative spacing between your players."

Thanks for the update.

we need to find saleh's twitter if it exists

Originally posted by Niner4ever:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Clearly we were talking about big ticket free agents. Cheap guys are signed all the time to fill spots.

My point is that the game changing free agents are ready to win now, and were not. I feel like ive said that 10 times, but people keep ignoring that fact. Dont pay a guy big money when 3 of the 4 or 5 contract years will be wasted on a rebuilding roster.

You make a good point but money talks...If you pay a player and pay him well he'll come no matter if the team is in rebuild, money talks.

We need to spend BIG on a stud NT and an edge pass rusher and fill in with less expensive guys elsewhere. Games are won by stopping the run and pressuring the QB. This year should be about rebuilding the defense.

We don't have many guys to re-sign at the moment so we can afford to spend a lot, and sweeten the deal with more money and living in California. When it's time to re-sign the FAs the replacement could possibly already be on the roster or we can extend.

and why does it matter to pay a guy big money if he helps you reach the playoffs say in his second,third, or fourth year? As long as you manage your cap right it's all good. Maybe your plan going into signing is using someone up and either cut/trade/let him play out contract, or you do a short term extension if the player is getting up there.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
We don't have many guys to re-sign at the moment so we can afford to spend a lot, and sweeten the deal with more money and living in California. When it's time to re-sign the FAs the replacement could possibly already be on the roster or we can extend.

and why does it matter to pay a guy big money if he helps you reach the playoffs say in his second,third, or fourth year? As long as you manage your cap right it's all good. Maybe your plan going into signing is using someone up and either cut/trade/let him play out contract, or you do a short term extension if the player is getting up there.

You don't win by trying to spend your way out of being a bad team. If that were true, Jacksonville would be one of the top NFL franchises right now. The teams that spend the most in FA typically tend to have the worst results going back 20 years. There is no shortcut to rebuilding a roster, add a FA here and there sure but the next great 49ers team will be based off the guys they've drafted and developed, not other teams unwanted players.

The money that they have today tends to go really fast, it wasn't but just a few years ago that this team was scrounging up every extra dollar they could to add an extra mil or two of cap space. Spend it wisely today, add a legit impact player or two but just as was true in 2011 and 2012, the bulk of your team should be comprised of home-grown players.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
We don't have many guys to re-sign at the moment so we can afford to spend a lot, and sweeten the deal with more money and living in California. When it's time to re-sign the FAs the replacement could possibly already be on the roster or we can extend.

and why does it matter to pay a guy big money if he helps you reach the playoffs say in his second,third, or fourth year? As long as you manage your cap right it's all good. Maybe your plan going into signing is using someone up and either cut/trade/let him play out contract, or you do a short term extension if the player is getting up there.

You don't win by trying to spend your way out of being a bad team. If that were true, Jacksonville would be one of the top NFL franchises right now. The teams that spend the most in FA typically tend to have the worst results going back 20 years. There is no shortcut to rebuilding a roster, add a FA here and there sure but the next great 49ers team will be based off the guys they've drafted and developed, not other teams unwanted players.

The money that they have today tends to go really fast, it wasn't but just a few years ago that this team was scrounging up every extra dollar they could to add an extra mil or two of cap space. Spend it wisely today, add a legit impact player or two but just as was true in 2011 and 2012, the bulk of your team should be comprised of home-grown players.

No but you shouldn't ignore FAs either when they fit and are long term acquisitions. The defense has been so decimated over the past couple of years that it makes sense to try and fill a couple of spots with FAs while building more through the draft. With $100 mil to spend you don't have to go crazy but do need to look for those special players--as J Smith became. my hunch is that they will go after a QB if it's within reason, LBs and perhaps WRs. If it becomes a ridiculous bidding war then a team as far away as the niners should bow out and wait for the next shot.

I just don't want to sign someone like we did when we signed Clement. We were lousy and Clement was just wasting away.

The 49ers will make a playoff run in 2018.
The 1997 Jets (with a roster way worse than our roster) went 9-7 after going 10-38 the previous 3 seasons and in 1998 they were in the AFCCG. The 2008 Dolphins were 11-5 one year after going 1-15 and with a roster worse than ours. We aren't an expansion team we have more talent that it thinks we have. We went 5-11 with the same roster under Tim Jimsula. Kyle is a trillion times better than that buffoon coach so we will win more than 5 games this years

There is a very good chance that the 49ers will be in the playoffs in January 2019 .The 49ers are pretty much guaranteed a playoff spot during the 2019 season. If we can go 5-11 under that Ron Jeremy clone buffoon Tomsolo we will do much better under Kyle.
No way our 2015 season roster was better than our roster now. Boldin played like he was in his 80s then, VD played like crup.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
We don't have many guys to re-sign at the moment so we can afford to spend a lot, and sweeten the deal with more money and living in California. When it's time to re-sign the FAs the replacement could possibly already be on the roster or we can extend.

and why does it matter to pay a guy big money if he helps you reach the playoffs say in his second,third, or fourth year? As long as you manage your cap right it's all good. Maybe your plan going into signing is using someone up and either cut/trade/let him play out contract, or you do a short term extension if the player is getting up there.

You don't win by trying to spend your way out of being a bad team. If that were true, Jacksonville would be one of the top NFL franchises right now. The teams that spend the most in FA typically tend to have the worst results going back 20 years. There is no shortcut to rebuilding a roster, add a FA here and there sure but the next great 49ers team will be based off the guys they've drafted and developed, not other teams unwanted players.

The money that they have today tends to go really fast, it wasn't but just a few years ago that this team was scrounging up every extra dollar they could to add an extra mil or two of cap space. Spend it wisely today, add a legit impact player or two but just as was true in 2011 and 2012, the bulk of your team should be comprised of home-grown players.

I trust Shanny's ability (at new position as HC) to get a mediocre offense up to speed more than I trust Saleh (at his new position as DC) to get a bad defense up to speed.

We do have a few solid guys on D, but hardly not enough. It would be wise to get more talent on defense to give the DC something to work with... do you think 2 or 3 FAs (at good value) are too many to sign? If you pair that up with 2 more FAs for the offense, that would be only 5 max... (depending who they are) that wouldn't be breaking the bank??

Originally posted by ricegorerisonanddean:
The 49ers will make a playoff run in 2018.
The 1997 Jets (with a roster way worse than our roster) went 9-7 after going 10-38 the previous 3 seasons and in 1998 they were in the AFCCG. The 2008 Dolphins were 11-5 one year after going 1-15 and with a roster worse than ours. We aren't an expansion team we have more talent that it thinks we have. We went 5-11 with the same roster under Tim Jimsula. Kyle is a trillion times better than that buffoon coach so we will win more than 5 games this years

There is a very good chance that the 49ers will be in the playoffs in January 2019 .The 49ers are pretty much guaranteed a playoff spot during the 2019 season. If we can go 5-11 under that Ron Jeremy clone buffoon Tomsolo we will do much better under Kyle.
No way our 2015 season roster was better than our roster now. Boldin played like he was in his 80s then, VD played like crup.

I kinda expect ShLynch to right the ship by 2018 and a real chance at NFCC by 2019. I wouldn't be surprised to see us go 7-9 / 8-8 this season... anything more would have to make Shanny in contention for HC of the year.

Shlynch is the dumbest nickname i've ever heard

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Clearly we were talking about big ticket free agents. Cheap guys are signed all the time to fill spots.

My point is that the game changing free agents are ready to win now, and were not. I feel like ive said that 10 times, but people keep ignoring that fact. Dont pay a guy big money when 3 of the 4 or 5 contract years will be wasted on a rebuilding roster.

Just like Justin Smith in 2008? Didn't win until 2011? What do you plan to do with the cap money? Just hold on to it until the league takes it and gives it to the union? Estimates of annual market value from Spotrac.

Cousins: $25 mil
Jeffery: $15 mil
Ingram: $17 mil
Short: $17 mil
Zeitler: $12 mil

Total: $86 mil out of the approximately $100 mil available if they signed all of them. But my point was these are good fits but other good players are also available. These would be among the most expensive but they could fill the spots with less expensive players. Whoever they sign these positions are an immediate need. You won't get this level of player in the draft.

First off, we will be 87 mil under the cap if Kap opts out. Not 100. Stop rounding up. 2nd, you don't spend ALL your cap space. Thats how you get back into cap hell. 3rd, Justin Smith was our one major signing that offseason, and he we only gave him 6/45 mil with 20 mil guaranteed.

Im not going to keep arguing about this. Building through free agency is the wrong way to build a team. Thats just a proven fact. Spending 86 mil on 5 guys is THE dumbest thing we could possibly do. Its not about just writing checks. Things wont magically get better by adding a few guys. Football is a team sport, and MUST be built mainly through the draft, where you get value.