Is Seattle going to have cap casualties?

Oh, right, you were denigrating our 2013 draft for some idiotic reason.

Reid is already one of the better safeties in the league, and was better than the guy he replaced. We upgraded at the position, and that's all you can ask of a draft pick.

Carradine and Lattimore are still question marks. This is their rookie year. We'll see how they pan out, but both of them have first round talent. I know not every first round talent pans out (like Jenkins, or Carpenter), but making any evaluation of them right now is the dumbest thing imaginable.

I already discussed McDonald.

Quinton Patton was injured for much of last year (kind of like Percy Harvin was). We'll see what he develops into; as of right now, he's only being asked to be our #4/#5 WR, so I don't think we'll see what he's capable of this year either.

Lemonier, Dial, and Moody are depth picks who could develop into something more down the line. Given our track record with these sort of things (Kilgore, Ray McDonald, Boone, Bowman, etc.), we'll see what comes. At any rate, getting solid depth in the late rounds is all you can ask for picks on a team as loaded at almost every position as SF is.

Was the 2013 draft as good as say, 2011's? You know what, it could be. But we just don't know yet.

What we do know is that, no matter what happens, it was better than Seattle's 2013 draft, which featured:

-- A top pick (in the 2nd round) who was a healthy scratch for most of the year because he couldn't climb the depth chart
-- Five guys on defense who combined for 7 tackles, and two of whom have already been cut
-- A WR in the 4th round who was also cut
-- A TE who is basically Rob Housler with fewer receiving yards. A bit player, sure, but no one is afraid of Rob Housler.
-- A 7th round pick who, hilariously, might actually start on your O-line next year because that's how terrible your team has been at finding talent for your offensive live.

So consider the possibility that Seattle swung and missed in 2013... and might have done the same this year. Interesting to think about, no?

Originally posted by 12thfan:

You guys were just as excited about your 2012 draft and Bleacher report strait up gave you A's and B's all the way through that draft. In the last two drafts you have so far seen one player become a starter. Yes Reid made the probowl as an alternate but did he deserve it is the question. We watched the previous two safeties make the probowl as starters and one as an allpro but we all know that was fluff as you guys have pointed out many times. Add in two concussions in his first year and even your one solid pick gives you reason to worry.

Last year you traded up to get in front of us to take the wrong TE. Vance McDonald so far has been a bad pick and it allowed us to move all the way back to the 5th to take the guy we wanted in Luke Willson who had a very good rookie year. John Schneider said after the draft Willson was the one player we wanted to leave the draft with and last year he showed why. So far our 5th round TE is looking like the much better pick over the guy you traded up into the 2nd to get.

Essentially though the draft picks are meaningless until they have proven out. Thinking you leapfrogged any team based on draft picks is what inexperienced fans do. Sorry but if you have been through a few of these you know it is true.

Reid made the probowl as an alternate, does he deserve it? of course he does. "16 regular-season games recording 77 tackles, two fumble recoveries, four interceptions and 11 passes defended" that's pretty good for a rookie don't you think? Look not to nitpick but Russell Wilson made the probowl as a rookie and was 3rd alternate cuz Matt Ryan was injured. Does he deserve it? He didn't play all that great the first half. In regards to our comparison between Vance and Luke, like what the other post says Vance and Luke plays two diff style, Vance at times is used like how Delanie Walker was used and he's probably the 4th option on passing downs and where Luke is your #1 pass catching TE while Zach Miller blocks.

Originally posted by 12thfan:

You guys were just as excited about your 2012 draft and Bleacher report strait up gave you A's and B's all the way through that draft. In the last two drafts you have so far seen one player become a starter. Yes Reid made the probowl as an alternate but did he deserve it is the question. We watched the previous two safeties make the probowl as starters and one as an allpro but we all know that was fluff as you guys have pointed out many times. Add in two concussions in his first year and even your one solid pick gives you reason to worry.

Last year you traded up to get in front of us to take the wrong TE. Vance McDonald so far has been a bad pick and it allowed us to move all the way back to the 5th to take the guy we wanted in Luke Willson who had a very good rookie year. John Schneider said after the draft Willson was the one player we wanted to leave the draft with and last year he showed why. So far our 5th round TE is looking like the much better pick over the guy you traded up into the 2nd to get.

Essentially though the draft picks are meaningless until they have proven out. Thinking you leapfrogged any team based on draft picks is what inexperienced fans do. Sorry but if you have been through a few of these you know it is true.

So you were in the war room that day? Or are you friends with the gm?

12thFan is the worst kind of idiot Seahawk fan. Next he's going to tell us why Dave Krieg was better than Joe Montana...oh that's right...he has no idea who Dave Krieg is...And he's relying on Bleacher Report! LOL...what a complete moron.

Originally posted by JoRo:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
boy, that is really something, S, and CB at $13Mil each, Russ W at $18, $40 mil guaranteed, $50 mil in contracts? Wow. That just seems like a prescription for disaster, but does it affect this yr that much, ie when does this bite take effect?

As good as those guys are, they just can't put many other talented guys on the roster with a $40-$50 mil chunk gone to 3 guys, can they ? Even tho I admire the talent of these 3 guys, you can't do this very long and maintain the quality of team you once had.

Sure a different mindset down here.

The extensions were for the dollar figures you cited, but the averages per year are nowhere near that. Sherman and ET average $22m/yr combined. Using your example of $18m for Russell and that's $40m for 3 guys at 2 premier positions and the best S in the league. That's a hell of a deal.

Yeah but if they don't have a good d-line, those corners won't be as effective. I'm hoping they get loose on the line..

Another thing 12th gram, not many fans were excited about the 2012 draft and I don't recall many good grades from the so called experts. Where are you getting this from?

You can evaluate McDonald because Luke Wilson out performed him. He was also replacing a key player in your offense in Walker.

Those shelved players just like Seattle's mean nothing until they prove something. It is like saying my dad is tougher than yours. Until they fight it's just opinion. If zip did have to bet on Ballke vs Schneider I would have to go Schneider and its not really close.

Originally posted by sspiker:

What we do know is that, no matter what happens, it was better than Seattle's 2013 draft, which featured:

-- A top pick (in the 2nd round) who was a healthy scratch for most of the year because he couldn't climb the depth chart
-- Five guys on defense who combined for 7 tackles, and two of whom have already been cut
-- A WR in the 4th round who was also cut
-- A TE who is basically Rob Housler with fewer receiving yards. A bit player, sure, but no one is afraid of Rob Housler.
-- A 7th round pick who, hilariously, might actually start on your O-line next year because that's how terrible your team has been at finding talent for your offensive live.

So consider the possibility that Seattle swung and missed in 2013... and might have done the same this year. Interesting to think about, no?

Not so sure you can condemn Seattles 2013 draft either.

1) You state the top pick was a healthy scratch because he couldn't climb the depth chart. Who by all accounts will be the heir apparent to Lynch next season. He wasn't drafted to start, but to learn the position and eventually take it over, and he appears to be on track.

2) The 5 guys on defense who combined for 7 tackles. 2 of which were on IR for the season (where it's difficult to accumulate stats from). Jesse Williams could wind up being one of the steals of the draft if he rebounds from injury (if), but it was a calculated risk. But by your logic you consider Tank Caradine a failure too? Also not sure they expected Jordan Hill to supplant any of their players on the D-Line they had last year. The fact that he made it on the field at all with their depth is fairly impressive. He'll get playing time this season, and we'll see how he fares. Tharold Simon "sounds" like he'll provide great depth, and could be the eventual replacement for Maxwell when he leaves for $$$. But that's based on last off season before he got hurt, so who knows. But he's far from a failure.

3) The WR in the 4th round was cut. Which ironically was the one pick that was universally praised by all the draft pundits. This doesn't amount to anything. Harper was a miss, the only thing I will give Seattle credit for on this one is recognizing their miss early and cutting him. Most teams would keep a 4th on the roster just to avoid looking foolish.

4) The TE drafted in the 5th round as the #3 TE (Zach Miller and Anthony McCoy), played very well, and had very good production for the number of snaps he was on the field. He wound up elevating to #2 due to McCoys' injury, but solidified himself as a solid #2.

5) It's a little odd that you're mocking a 7th round pick turning into a starter? Not only him, but they also had an UDFA (Bailey) that has seen some playing time on their o-line, and both have looked very good. Perhaps their O-line has been that bad, but it was just bad enough to win the super bowl with a 7th rounder starting. To me this shows some of the brilliance of Seattles scouting department, but you're selling it as a net negative.

One you didn't list is Spencer Ware who is competing with Coleman as the starting FB, and is solid on special teams.

So out of 11 picks, 1 started on a Super Bowl team, and 6 more show the promise of becoming starters this season or next.

This could wind up being a flaming pile of poo, or it could wind up mirroring their 2010, 2011, or 2012 drafts, all of which were very good to excellent.

I'm not condemning Santa Clara's draft either, just wanting to point out that it's way too early to judge either teams 2013 draft or consider either a failure. Especially on teams as good as each these teams are. The bottom line is when you have a great team, your drafts aren't going to make an impact for at least a couple seasons. Except for maybe 1 or 2 outliers.

Originally posted by 12thfan:
You can evaluate McDonald because Luke Wilson out performed him. He was also replacing a key player in your offense in Walker.

Those shelved players just like Seattle's mean nothing until they prove something. It is like saying my dad is tougher than yours. Until they fight it's just opinion. If zip did have to bet on Ballke vs Schneider I would have to go Schneider and its not really close.

In what way did Willson outperform McDonald? Because he had 300-some receiving yards to McDonald's 200-some? Really?

McDonald was clearly a larger part of SF's offense, which is why he was on the field more. Maybe Willson will be on the field even more this year, but only because Seattle has never been strong at TE, and still isn't.

And here's the point-- THAT'S OKAY. Seattle doesn't use their TEs like other teams do. SF uses TEs like crazy, lining up in the backfield, split out wide, passing out of 3 TE sets, etc. So why would you think because he caught a few more passes that Willson is more valuable, or out performed anybody? It's just plain silly, and it's an exceedingly stupid point to try and argue.

Given how little you've gotten out of your 2013 draft class, I understand the reason why you want to believe Willson is something he's not. But at a certain point, when you have to actually use "facts" instead of "potential", your logic falls apart.

Originally posted by maltz88:
Not so sure you can condemn Seattles 2013 draft either.

I wasn't trying to condemn it, just offering another point of view to the idiot who was trying (and failing) to make a point about SF's draft.

I still have serious doubts about Michael; why wouldn't Turbin be the heir apparent if Turbin was better enough to earn a spot on the active roster? Sure, stashing and training up a guy makes sense I guess, but you'd think they'd try to get him on the field a little bit. By and large, if you're not injured and you're not on the 46-, it's because 46 players were better than you.

Maybe the plan is to stash him for when Lynch leaves... but that's in 2016. So for the first three years of a four-year rookie contract, Michael isn't even going to suit up? Maybe it'll work out, but that seems like poor value for the top pick of the draft.

Your other points are fine, and I absolutely agree--the injured players could recover and be contributors, or they could flame out and you guys could get next-to-nothing from 2013. Both are equally likely, in my view. You're probably more optimistic which is understandable, and mirrors my optimism for SF's draft class.

Though there really is no argument for the fact that Seattle has a bad O-line, below average in the league, and you guys won in spite of it. In fact, your porous line is what results in so, so many broken plays that causes Wilson to scramble. You were extremely lucky in converting most of your broken plays in 2013. You will need that luck to continue this year to win as many games. But there's no chance in hell that Bailey or Bowie would make SF's roster, let alone start.

Originally posted by 12thfan:
You can evaluate McDonald because Luke Wilson out performed him. He was also replacing a key player in your offense in Walker.

Those shelved players just like Seattle's mean nothing until they prove something. It is like saying my dad is tougher than yours. Until they fight it's just opinion. If zip did have to bet on Ballke vs Schneider I would have to go Schneider and its not really close.

The first sentence makes no sense. And of course you'd have to go with Schneider...you're a Seahawk fan. Luke Wilson did not out perform McDonald. McDonald became one of the better blocking tight ends in the NFL by seasons end. Yes, Luke Wilson had more receiving yards and TD's because he isn't playing along side Vernon Davis. And my dad died four years ago but I'm pretty sure he could still whoop your dad. By the sound of your arguments, I'd venture to guess that your dad might also be your uncle....

Originally posted by maltz88:
Not so sure you can condemn Seattles 2013 draft either.

1) You state the top pick was a healthy scratch because he couldn't climb the depth chart. Who by all accounts will be the heir apparent to Lynch next season. He wasn't drafted to start, but to learn the position and eventually take it over, and he appears to be on track.

2) The 5 guys on defense who combined for 7 tackles. 2 of which were on IR for the season (where it's difficult to accumulate stats from). Jesse Williams could wind up being one of the steals of the draft if he rebounds from injury (if), but it was a calculated risk. But by your logic you consider Tank Caradine a failure too? Also not sure they expected Jordan Hill to supplant any of their players on the D-Line they had last year. The fact that he made it on the field at all with their depth is fairly impressive. He'll get playing time this season, and we'll see how he fares. Tharold Simon "sounds" like he'll provide great depth, and could be the eventual replacement for Maxwell when he leaves for $$$. But that's based on last off season before he got hurt, so who knows. But he's far from a failure.

3) The WR in the 4th round was cut. Which ironically was the one pick that was universally praised by all the draft pundits. This doesn't amount to anything. Harper was a miss, the only thing I will give Seattle credit for on this one is recognizing their miss early and cutting him. Most teams would keep a 4th on the roster just to avoid looking foolish.

4) The TE drafted in the 5th round as the #3 TE (Zach Miller and Anthony McCoy), played very well, and had very good production for the number of snaps he was on the field. He wound up elevating to #2 due to McCoys' injury, but solidified himself as a solid #2.

5) It's a little odd that you're mocking a 7th round pick turning into a starter? Not only him, but they also had an UDFA (Bailey) that has seen some playing time on their o-line, and both have looked very good. Perhaps their O-line has been that bad, but it was just bad enough to win the super bowl with a 7th rounder starting. To me this shows some of the brilliance of Seattles scouting department, but you're selling it as a net negative.

One you didn't list is Spencer Ware who is competing with Coleman as the starting FB, and is solid on special teams.

So out of 11 picks, 1 started on a Super Bowl team, and 6 more show the promise of becoming starters this season or next.

This could wind up being a flaming pile of poo, or it could wind up mirroring their 2010, 2011, or 2012 drafts, all of which were very good to excellent.

I'm not condemning Santa Clara's draft either, just wanting to point out that it's way too early to judge either teams 2013 draft or consider either a failure. Especially on teams as good as each these teams are. The bottom line is when you have a great team, your drafts aren't going to make an impact for at least a couple seasons. Except for maybe 1 or 2 outliers.

It's hilarious that you call us Santa Clara...I'll tell you what...Santa Clara is a better town than Seattle too...as is Oakland, Stockton, Compton, Inglewood...etc.

Originally posted by 12thfan:
You guys were just as excited about your 2012 draft and Bleacher report strait up gave you A's and B's all the way through that draft. In the last two drafts you have so far seen one player become a starter. Yes Reid made the probowl as an alternate but did he deserve it is the question. We watched the previous two safeties make the probowl as starters and one as an allpro but we all know that was fluff as you guys have pointed out many times. Add in two concussions in his first year and even your one solid pick gives you reason to worry.

Last year you traded up to get in front of us to take the wrong TE. Vance McDonald so far has been a bad pick and it allowed us to move all the way back to the 5th to take the guy we wanted in Luke Willson who had a very good rookie year. John Schneider said after the draft Willson was the one player we wanted to leave the draft with and last year he showed why. So far our 5th round TE is looking like the much better pick over the guy you traded up into the 2nd to get.

Essentially though the draft picks are meaningless until they have proven out. Thinking you leapfrogged any team based on draft picks is what inexperienced fans do. Sorry but if you have been through a few of these you know it is true.

in 2011, marshawn lynch, kam chancellor and brandon browner made the pro bowl as alternates when frank gore, dashon goldson and carlos rogers pulled out of the game after the loss to the giants. gtfo here with that did reid deserve it b******t.

Originally posted by Black24Razor:

Originally posted by maltz88:
Not so sure you can condemn Seattles 2013 draft either.

1) You state the top pick was a healthy scratch because he couldn't climb the depth chart. Who by all accounts will be the heir apparent to Lynch next season. He wasn't drafted to start, but to learn the position and eventually take it over, and he appears to be on track.

2) The 5 guys on defense who combined for 7 tackles. 2 of which were on IR for the season (where it's difficult to accumulate stats from). Jesse Williams could wind up being one of the steals of the draft if he rebounds from injury (if), but it was a calculated risk. But by your logic you consider Tank Caradine a failure too? Also not sure they expected Jordan Hill to supplant any of their players on the D-Line they had last year. The fact that he made it on the field at all with their depth is fairly impressive. He'll get playing time this season, and we'll see how he fares. Tharold Simon "sounds" like he'll provide great depth, and could be the eventual replacement for Maxwell when he leaves for $$$. But that's based on last off season before he got hurt, so who knows. But he's far from a failure.

3) The WR in the 4th round was cut. Which ironically was the one pick that was universally praised by all the draft pundits. This doesn't amount to anything. Harper was a miss, the only thing I will give Seattle credit for on this one is recognizing their miss early and cutting him. Most teams would keep a 4th on the roster just to avoid looking foolish.

4) The TE drafted in the 5th round as the #3 TE (Zach Miller and Anthony McCoy), played very well, and had very good production for the number of snaps he was on the field. He wound up elevating to #2 due to McCoys' injury, but solidified himself as a solid #2.

5) It's a little odd that you're mocking a 7th round pick turning into a starter? Not only him, but they also had an UDFA (Bailey) that has seen some playing time on their o-line, and both have looked very good. Perhaps their O-line has been that bad, but it was just bad enough to win the super bowl with a 7th rounder starting. To me this shows some of the brilliance of Seattles scouting department, but you're selling it as a net negative.

One you didn't list is Spencer Ware who is competing with Coleman as the starting FB, and is solid on special teams.

So out of 11 picks, 1 started on a Super Bowl team, and 6 more show the promise of becoming starters this season or next.

This could wind up being a flaming pile of poo, or it could wind up mirroring their 2010, 2011, or 2012 drafts, all of which were very good to excellent.

I'm not condemning Santa Clara's draft either, just wanting to point out that it's way too early to judge either teams 2013 draft or consider either a failure. Especially on teams as good as each these teams are. The bottom line is when you have a great team, your drafts aren't going to make an impact for at least a couple seasons. Except for maybe 1 or 2 outliers.

It's hilarious that you call us Santa Clara...I'll tell you what...Santa Clara is a better town than Seattle too...as is Oakland, Stockton, Compton, Inglewood...etc.

I hate the Seahawks, the corny/moronic/contrived "12", and the Mariners...but no.

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by Black24Razor:

Originally posted by maltz88:
Not so sure you can condemn Seattles 2013 draft either.

1) You state the top pick was a healthy scratch because he couldn't climb the depth chart. Who by all accounts will be the heir apparent to Lynch next season. He wasn't drafted to start, but to learn the position and eventually take it over, and he appears to be on track.

2) The 5 guys on defense who combined for 7 tackles. 2 of which were on IR for the season (where it's difficult to accumulate stats from). Jesse Williams could wind up being one of the steals of the draft if he rebounds from injury (if), but it was a calculated risk. But by your logic you consider Tank Caradine a failure too? Also not sure they expected Jordan Hill to supplant any of their players on the D-Line they had last year. The fact that he made it on the field at all with their depth is fairly impressive. He'll get playing time this season, and we'll see how he fares. Tharold Simon "sounds" like he'll provide great depth, and could be the eventual replacement for Maxwell when he leaves for $$$. But that's based on last off season before he got hurt, so who knows. But he's far from a failure.

3) The WR in the 4th round was cut. Which ironically was the one pick that was universally praised by all the draft pundits. This doesn't amount to anything. Harper was a miss, the only thing I will give Seattle credit for on this one is recognizing their miss early and cutting him. Most teams would keep a 4th on the roster just to avoid looking foolish.

4) The TE drafted in the 5th round as the #3 TE (Zach Miller and Anthony McCoy), played very well, and had very good production for the number of snaps he was on the field. He wound up elevating to #2 due to McCoys' injury, but solidified himself as a solid #2.

5) It's a little odd that you're mocking a 7th round pick turning into a starter? Not only him, but they also had an UDFA (Bailey) that has seen some playing time on their o-line, and both have looked very good. Perhaps their O-line has been that bad, but it was just bad enough to win the super bowl with a 7th rounder starting. To me this shows some of the brilliance of Seattles scouting department, but you're selling it as a net negative.

One you didn't list is Spencer Ware who is competing with Coleman as the starting FB, and is solid on special teams.

So out of 11 picks, 1 started on a Super Bowl team, and 6 more show the promise of becoming starters this season or next.

This could wind up being a flaming pile of poo, or it could wind up mirroring their 2010, 2011, or 2012 drafts, all of which were very good to excellent.

I'm not condemning Santa Clara's draft either, just wanting to point out that it's way too early to judge either teams 2013 draft or consider either a failure. Especially on teams as good as each these teams are. The bottom line is when you have a great team, your drafts aren't going to make an impact for at least a couple seasons. Except for maybe 1 or 2 outliers.

It's hilarious that you call us Santa Clara...I'll tell you what...Santa Clara is a better town than Seattle too...as is Oakland, Stockton, Compton, Inglewood...etc.

I hate the Seahawks, the corny/moronic/contrived "12", and the Mariners...but no.

You wouldn't rather live in Ice Cube's house in Boyz in the Hood than the house boat from Sleepless in Seattle? You trippin'. LOL.