LT- Johnathan Martin- bullying inside Dolphins locker room

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Sports fan already commented on it too
But I say especially in the locker room because people who stay and bs in the locker room are people who want to stay and bs in the locker room. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to hang out with teammates. You don't have to shower in the locker room. You can easily leave after all practice is done

Exactly. After hockey we would hang out, drink beer and talk s**t. It was part of the fun.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
one thing that bothers me is so far I haven't seen a single apology, that's kind of shocking to me

You know why ? By apologizing is essentially an admission of guilt. Is too late for that now, it has become a legal matter in the hands of lawyers.

As an attorney, I'd advise my client to issue an apology. You can script apologies without making it an admission of guilt.

True, but at this juncture, it might be too little too late. If an apology from any party for that matter were to be issued, it should have been done right at the start. If you just go through the chain of events of what has transpired since Martin left the facility, Incognito never issued an apology, the Dolphins organization never said anything about their concern for Martin only to ask the NFL to investigate into the matter after the contents of the first infamous voicemail was publicized, last but not least all the teammates have come out to support Incognito and once again not showing an ounce of concern for Martin's well being. In other words, this whole thing has really been going in one direction from the word go if you will, "us" Vs Martin and that gap has only been widening by the day. I am no lawyer, but it looks to me it is only ramming up to a legal showdown especially if the NFL doesn't come down hard on the guilty parties concerned after their investigation. Just my two cents.

Originally posted by SportsFan:
To settle this sister thing, anyone that has a hot sister post pictures now. And we will tell you what we would do to them.

Bad idea. With the recent influx of Carolina fans I'd half expect a lot of "Here's my sister and here's what I've already done to her" posts.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by SportsFan:
I tell all my coworkers who have hot sisters that I WEDB and f**k them in the a**.

wow, really?

I know people say those comments on the internet. But if anyone insulted my family, even in a joking manner, I'd consider that fighting words.

I was raised that you never insult someone's family.

Agree with you and believe a lot of this stuff is nonsense. The likelihood of Sportsfan being alive after saying that to coworkers is very doubtful. He reminds me of Romanowski who blustered about hitting someone five times in two seconds...that would take care of things. Dumb stuff when considering the situation. Some people do not believe they should have to fight with co-workers...even on football teams. Doesn't make them less, but more human and perhaps a tad more civilized. The fact that Martin graduated from Stanford and Incognito was kicked out of Nebraska seems about right.

Originally posted by SportsFan:

Originally posted by solidg2000:
Sports fan already commented on it too
But I say especially in the locker room because people who stay and bs in the locker room are people who want to stay and bs in the locker room. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to hang out with teammates. You don't have to shower in the locker room. You can easily leave after all practice is done

Exactly. After hockey we would hang out, drink beer and talk s**t. It was part of the fun.

I grew up playing hockey in the states, I remember we made mom jokes in Bantams. After that though it never happened. Sure insults and what not were slung, but not about family. If it crossed the line we'd throw down in the locker room. I did it several times on insults that weren't close to as bad as what Martin was told.

I don't have a sister so I can't speak on sister insults. But I would say if a teammate made a comment about my mom once I was in highschool or later, I would throw down over it. Why was bantams different? I'm not sure, I think part of it is I just learned there were lines you shouldn't cross when busting balls.

That was my experience growing up playing hockey. We'd bust balls on a lot of things, and I had black teammates, we never called them a n****r or said we'd cum in their sisters mouth or anything like that.

edit: and man once I got to juniors, you'd better watch your mouth. Some of those f**kers could throw blows like you couldn't believe.

2nd edit: In midgets and beyond teams I was on were always mindful of where the line is, and to not cross it. A big reason was you understood you wanted team chemistry, we were there to compete, to get to the next level. You didn't want to break up team chemistry with petty s**t.

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by SportsFan:

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Sports fan already commented on it too
But I say especially in the locker room because people who stay and bs in the locker room are people who want to stay and bs in the locker room. Contrary to popular belief you don't have to hang out with teammates. You don't have to shower in the locker room. You can easily leave after all practice is done

Exactly. After hockey we would hang out, drink beer and talk s**t. It was part of the fun.

I grew up playing hockey in the states, I remember we made mom jokes in Bantams. After that though it never happened. Sure insults and what not were slung, but not about family. If it crossed the line we'd throw down in the locker room. I did it several times on insults that weren't close to as bad as what Martin was told.

I don't have a sister so I can't speak on sister insults. But I would say if a teammate made a comment about my mom once I was in highschool or later, I would throw down over it. Why was bantams different? I'm not sure, I think part of it is I just learned there were lines you shouldn't cross when busting balls.

That was my experience growing up playing hockey. We'd bust balls on a lot of things, and I had black teammates, we never called them a n****r or said we'd cum in their sisters mouth or anything like that.

edit: and man once I got to juniors, you'd better watch your mouth. Some of those f**kers could throw blows like you couldn't believe.

2nd edit: In midgets and beyond teams I was on were always mindful of where the line is, and to not cross it. A big reason was you understood you wanted team chemistry, we were there to compete, to get to the next level. You didn't want to break up team chemistry with petty s**t.

I guess it's just a difference in environment
In high school, I went to an inner city school in LA. It literally was one of the biggest high schools in the nation (belmont high school)
Our freshman class was one of the strongest in terms of football in years. In jv our class started 18 players as freshmen, 20 as sophomores, in varsity as juniors 17 starters, as seniors 21. Basically we were a tight not group and we spend more time together then we did with our own family. And talk about mothers and sisters and family was all over. There was a few who let it be known "don't talk about my family". So we wouldn't for them, but everyone else was free game unless otherwise stated.
And yes we did hazing too, lots of pantsing in front of cheerleaders, run laps wearing only underwear, hiding clothes and pads etc

And the n word was used a lot and not by just the black students
And we had zero fights about that
There were plenty of honorary black ppl lol

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Originally posted by SportsFan:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by SportsFan:
I tell all my coworkers who have hot sisters that I WEDB and f**k them in the a**.

wow, really?

I know people say those comments on the internet. But if anyone insulted my family, even in a joking manner, I'd consider that fighting words.

I was raised that you never insult someone's family.

Hahaha

But with buddies, if they have hot sisters or moms I would joke around about doing dirty things to them.

THANK YOU!!!!
Yes me and my buddies do this all the time

I don't know where you work, but to tell someone you would come in his sister's mouth and to fxxk her without a condom ?! Really ? This sh*t will never fly in 99% of workplaces.

Sisters, mums, families are simply lines you don't cross. Heck, in most cases people don't even like their friends dating their own sisters. If is a joke, the most I would say would be hey I am going to call your sister and ask her out. That's already taboo enough as a joke.

Originally posted by SportsFan:
To settle this sister thing, anyone that has a hot sister post pictures now. And we will tell you what we would do to them.

This is my sister. Her name is Pat, short for Pat.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Originally posted by SportsFan:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by SportsFan:

I tell all my coworkers who have hot sisters that I WEDB and f**k them in the a**.

wow, really?

I know people say those comments on the internet. But if anyone insulted my family, even in a joking manner, I'd consider that fighting words.

I was raised that you never insult someone's family.

Hahaha

But with buddies, if they have hot sisters or moms I would joke around about doing dirty things to them.

THANK YOU!!!!
Yes me and my buddies do this all the time

I don't know where you work, but to tell someone you would come in his sister's mouth and to fxxk her without a condom ?! Really ? This sh*t will never fly in 99% of workplaces.

Sisters, mums, families are simply lines you don't cross. Heck, in most cases people don't even like their friends dating their own sisters. If is a joke, the most I would say would be hey I am going to call your sister and ask her out. That's already taboo enough as a joke.

In my last job, I was there 10 years
We had a crew of about 20 in my department. Men and women, and yes we talked dirty all the time. We all knew everything about each other and talked s**t about everything. Christmas parties were legendary. And the dirtiest things were said by women lol

Honestly I say racial things to my friends and talk about f**kin any female in a 10 mile
Radius wether it was their family,friend or stranger.. They obviously know I'm giving them a hard time and they can do it right back to me. As long as everything is said in a jokin matter. It seems to me that this stuff went on and Martin was too much of a p***y to say something so
He always just laughed and no one realized he was crying on the inside, and now he is pulling this stunt.

Has anyone seen the league lol
That's pretty much all the shows about, talking s**t to each other and Andres sister lol

I love how people can talk about football players like they are "warriors" or "gladiators" and then mention bullying in the same sentence. What a joke.

Don't get me wrong, bullying exists and it can happen at all levels. But you are supposed to be a pro football player who puts his mind and body on the line and you can't handle a little indoctrination by the other players?

I come from the Special Operations community, guys I served with are like brothers and would do anything for one another. However, we were tied up, beaten and hazed on a constant basis. Ragging on guys about their families, girlfriends, moms, and race was part of the experience. You understood that you existed independent of the outside world. That you were part of a team, family, and brotherhood, independent of anything else, and you depended on each other and knew that they were mentally touch and wouldn't let you down. You made fun of your closest friends, and if you discovered a weakness about them you would hit it twice as hard.

When I heard the tapes the other day I thought, "that's nothing, I've had much worse said to me by guys that I consider family". I've always loved football since I was a young kid, but the money these guys get paid to play a child's game and then b*tch about what it does to their bodies, and now about "bullying". This is beyond absurd.

I know that some people might not understand that but I don't think everyone is supposed to. That mentality is, and should be, different from most everyone's everyday normal life. However, in a sport that uses terms like: "battle", "trenches", "war", "combatants", "warriors", etc., I think some people need to grow some thicker skin or find a new career path.

Originally posted by RabidNiner:
I love how people can talk about football players like they are "warriors" or "gladiators" and then mention bullying in the same sentence. What a joke.

Don't get me wrong, bullying exists and it can happen at all levels. But you are supposed to be a pro football player who puts his mind and body on the line and you can't handle a little indoctrination by the other players?

I come from the Special Operations community, guys I served with are like brothers and would do anything for one another. However, we were tied up, beaten and hazed on a constant basis. Ragging on guys about their families, girlfriends, moms, and race was part of the experience. You understood that you existed independent of the outside world. That you were part of a team, family, and brotherhood, independent of anything else, and you depended on each other and knew that they were mentally touch and wouldn't let you down. You made fun of your closest friends, and if you discovered a weakness about them you would hit it twice as hard.

When I heard the tapes the other day I thought, "that's nothing, I've had much worse said to me by guys that I consider family". I've always loved football since I was a young kid, but the money these guys get paid to play a child's game and then b*tch about what it does to their bodies, and now about "bullying". This is beyond absurd.

I know that some people might not understand that but I don't think everyone is supposed to. That mentality is, and should be, different from most everyone's everyday normal life. However, in a sport that uses terms like: "battle", "trenches", "war", "combatants", "warriors", etc., I think some people need to grow some thicker skin or find a new career path.

I would challenge you to read this article recently written on Grantland. It relates a lot to the point you are trying to make. Might give you a different perspective. Or not, but at the least it's a really well-written article.

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by RabidNiner:
I love how people can talk about football players like they are "warriors" or "gladiators" and then mention bullying in the same sentence. What a joke.

Don't get me wrong, bullying exists and it can happen at all levels. But you are supposed to be a pro football player who puts his mind and body on the line and you can't handle a little indoctrination by the other players?

I come from the Special Operations community, guys I served with are like brothers and would do anything for one another. However, we were tied up, beaten and hazed on a constant basis. Ragging on guys about their families, girlfriends, moms, and race was part of the experience. You understood that you existed independent of the outside world. That you were part of a team, family, and brotherhood, independent of anything else, and you depended on each other and knew that they were mentally touch and wouldn't let you down. You made fun of your closest friends, and if you discovered a weakness about them you would hit it twice as hard.

When I heard the tapes the other day I thought, "that's nothing, I've had much worse said to me by guys that I consider family". I've always loved football since I was a young kid, but the money these guys get paid to play a child's game and then b*tch about what it does to their bodies, and now about "bullying". This is beyond absurd.

I know that some people might not understand that but I don't think everyone is supposed to. That mentality is, and should be, different from most everyone's everyday normal life. However, in a sport that uses terms like: "battle", "trenches", "war", "combatants", "warriors", etc., I think some people need to grow some thicker skin or find a new career path.

I would challenge you to read this article recently written on Grantland. It relates a lot to the point you are trying to make. Might give you a different perspective. Or not, but at the least it's a really well-written article.

I appreciate the article, I won't debate it's content because I don't agree with it, or think that he author has any credibility to speak about certain things. I understand that many people feel differently about this subject than I do, and I'm sure changes will be put into place to ensure that people are punished when it happens. However, I wanted to give my opinion. Now that I've done that I'll leave it alone.

Jason Whitlock column on the situation.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9941696/jonathan-martin-walked-twisted-world-led-incognito

Mass incarceration has turned segments of Black America so upside down that a tatted-up, N-word-tossing white goon is more respected and accepted than a soft-spoken, highly intelligent black Stanford graduate.

According to a story in the Miami Herald, black Dolphins players granted Richie Incognito "honorary" status as a black man while feeling little connection to Jonathan Martin.

Welcome to Incarceration Nation, where the mindset of the Miami Dolphins' locker room mirrors the mentality of a maximum-security prison yard and where a wide swath of America believes the nonviolent intellectual needs to adopt the tactics of the barbarian.

I don't blame Jonathan Martin for walking away from the Dolphins and checking himself into a hospital seeking treatment for emotional distress. The cesspool of insanity that apparently is the Miami locker room would test the mental stability of any sane man. Martin, the offspring of Harvard grads, a 24-year-old trained at some of America's finest academic institutions, is a first-time offender callously thrown into an Attica prison cell with Incognito and Aaron Hernandez's BFF Mike Pouncey. Dolphins warden Jeff Ireland and deputy warden Joe Philbin put zero sophisticated thought into what they were doing when they drafted Martin in the second round in 2012.

You don't put Jonathan Martin in a cell with Incognito and Pouncey. You draft someone else, and let another team take Martin. The Dolphins don't have the kind of environment to support someone with Martin's background. It takes intelligence and common sense to connect with and manage Martin. Those attributes appear to be in short supply in Miami.

"Richie is honorary," a black former Dolphins player told Miami Herald reporter Armando Salguero. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."

I'm black. And I totally understand the genesis of this particular brand of stupidity and self-hatred. Mass Incarceration, its b*****d child, Hurricane Illegitimacy, and their marketing firm, commercial hip-hop music, have created a culture that perpetrates the idea that authentic blackness is criminal, savage, uneducated and irresponsible. The tenets of white supremacy and bigotry have been injected into popular youth culture. The blackest things a black man can do are loudly spew the N-word publicly and react violently to the slightest sign of disrespect or disagreement.


Yeah, Richie Incognito is an honorary black. And Jonathan Martin is a sellout.

"I don't have a problem with Richie," Dolphins receiver Mike Wallace was quoted in Salguero's story. "I love Richie."

Yeah, the Dolphins are circling the wagons around Incognito. I get Ryan Tannehill's defense of his Pro Bowl left guard. He needs him. He doesn't believe the Dolphins can protect him or win games without Incognito. There's a popular belief you can't consistently win football games without a few "thugs" like Incognito in your locker room. Makes you wonder how Stanford competes with USC, Oregon, UCLA, etc., every year. You wonder how Nebraska and Oregon survived after booting Incognito. You wonder why three NFL teams let him go. Maybe he's not as essential as the myth-makers would have you believe.

But what makes me want to check into a mental hospital is Miami's black players' unconditional love of Incognito and indifference to Martin.

It points to our fundamental lack of knowledge of our own history in this country. We think the fake tough guy, the ex-con turned rhetoric spewer was more courageous than the educated pacifist who won our liberation standing in the streets, absorbing repeated ass-whippings, jail and a white assassin's bullet. We fell for the okeydoke.

We think Malcolm X was blacker than Martin Luther King Jr.

I'm as guilty as anybody. I've read X's autobiography a half-dozen times. I own Spike Lee's movie about X and watch it a couple of times a year. I love Malcolm X. But I'm not an idiot. MLK liberated me. MLK blazed the proper path to respect, progress and achievement. Barack Obama stands on MLK's shoulders. And so does Jonathan Martin.

Richie Incognito is an "honorary" bigot, standing on the shoulders of Gov. George Wallace. The fact that a group of young black men in the Dolphins' locker room can't see that speaks to the level of ignorance unleashed by Mass Incarceration, Hurricane Illegitimacy and commercial hip-hop.

Too many young people have grown up. There's a difference between growing up and being raised. When you grow up, you're left to figure things out on your own. That's why we have a generation of young people who can't recognize the self-hatred and damage of describing yourself as the N-word. They don't know what they haven't been taught. Video games, iPads and headphones can't raise a child. But those technological advances can entertain and empower popular culture to corrupt.

Richie Incognito, left, has been suspended as the NFL investigates if he sent Jonathan Martin, right, harassing texts and voice-mail messages. I don't know Jonathan Martin. He's biracial. He was apparently smart enough to qualify for entry into Harvard. He's huge and athletic. He strikes me as someone ripe to struggle with his identity.

The Dolphins tagged him the "Big Weirdo." The Dolphins held up Richie Incognito as the ultimate role model for offensive linemen. Incognito was a Pro Bowler. He was a member of the six-man leadership council. It makes perfect sense for a kid like Martin to befriend Incognito and try to fit in. I'm sure they were best friends, for a time. I'm sure Incognito offered Martin physical protection on the football field. It's standard operating procedure for a prison-yard bully to cultivate a relationship that is equal parts fear, love and disrespect. It's how you turn a guy out and make him grab your belt loop.

Martin was confused. He probably thought the bullying and hazing would pass after his rookie season. He wanted to fit in and make it in the NFL. The paycheck is incredible. He tried to laugh off the abuse and disrespect. He participated in it. He coughed up $15,000 for a trip to Las Vegas he didn't want to take.

Finally he snapped. He wasn't raised to be a full-blown idiot. He was raised to think and solve problems with his mind. He was savvy enough to figure out a physical confrontation with Incognito was a no-win situation. It wouldn't curb Incognito's behavior or change the culture inside the Miami locker room. It would confirm it. In order to win the fight, Martin would have to physically harm Incognito. It would not be a one-punch or two-punch fight.

Martin walked. If the entry fee to being an NFL offensive lineman is adopting the mindset of Incognito and Pouncey, Martin wisely chose not to pay it. He has a developed brain and a supportive family unit. He's not desperate. He has options. People with limited options and no family support may not understand or respect his decision. That's on them and illustrates the vast impact of Mass Incarceration and Hurricane Illegitimacy.

It's now time for Roger Goodell to render a verdict on wardens Ireland and Philbin and Cell Block D leader Incognito. The world is so upside down that I half expect Goodell to suspend Martin for conduct detrimental to American idiocy.