Vance "Beastmode" McDonald Thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
McDonald has got butterfingers.

Actually improving every yr and was our only real receiving threat last yr...he didn't have butterfingers last yr

Yeah, but when he drops them it looks like he never caught a pass in his life.

Originally posted by 49ersnum1:

I'm all for moving Vance.... It will be crowded at TE and I am most excited about Hikutini... Kittles has a little Shockey in him too... Vance is average with some speed at best.

Not me. If he is the top 1 or 2 TEs, no way I want him traded. Competition is open.

Maybe THL or JD or really anyone who knows kyles stretch zone scheme well can answer this question. How much emphasis does Kyle put on his TE's in run blocking and pass protection in his scheme? Or does he mainly use TE's as receivers? Because to me I would think Vance is the kind of TE Shanny would like to try and develop. He has speed (which he seems to love) and size to boot, and he's shown to be an above average blocking TE in his first few years. His downside has been his durability and drops but I just don't see how Shanahan could think Vance isn't a top 3 TE on our roster?

Originally posted by Luckycharms:

Maybe THL or JD or really anyone who knows kyles stretch zone scheme well can answer this question. How much emphasis does Kyle put on his TE's in run blocking and pass protection in his scheme? Or does he mainly use TE's as receivers? Because to me I would think Vance is the kind of TE Shanny would like to try and develop. He has speed (which he seems to love) and size to boot, and he's shown to be an above average blocking TE in his first few years. His downside has been his durability and drops but I just don't see how Shanahan could think Vance isn't a top 3 TE on our roster?

With Kittle and Paulsen as blockers, I'd like to see Vance shed some weight and not block as much.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:

McDonald has got butterfingers.

Actually improving every yr and was our only real receiving threat last yr...he didn't have butterfingers last yr

Yeah, but when he drops them it looks like he never caught a pass in his life.

I have no idea what that means lol...I mean if you want to dwell on a missed catch vs the panthers from yrs ago that's fine...show me all the missed catches from last yr? He's improving which is a plus.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Bobdawg78:

If McDonald isn't traded, I highly doubt he's cut this year, just due to guarantees in his salary, and the cap hit we'd take(Yes I understand we have a ton of cap space). It's not like McDonald is so bad that he can't be our 3rd or 4th TE if Shanahan wants Kittles and Paulsen playing a lot. Personally I'd just like to see him traded, so we can move on, and let the new kids play (Kittles, Hikutini).

I'm more of a wait and see guy when I look at Vance. Great measurable, good blocker, some speed. He's already on the team, has played ok in his NFL career. Why not see what he can do in a new system. Now, if the younger guys are just as good as he is, then I'd fully go with the youth movement. I'll take the cap hit and try to get a good trade deal, if the younger guys prove in pre-season that they have the same production ability.

This...it's hard not to give some players a pass and clean slate after the past two years. May the best men win. New 49ers era.

Personally, I'd like a guy that's a bit quicker than Vance. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a wait and see guy with Vance, but I'd like more of a John Frank, Brent Jones kind of guy. Guy's with more wiggle and quickness than strength and speed, although Brent had very decent speed. Vance, to me, doesn't have that jitterbug quickness that guys like Earl Cooper and Russ Francis had back in the day. We shall see...

Yeah, I'd probably like a more natural pass catcher myself, while also noting Vance is improving too. Brent Jones was neither quick or fast but he had an uncanny knack for finding the soft zones, route running and could take BRUTAL beatings while or after securing the catch. He also had some RAC ability too. Smart.

If Vance wants to be the next great TE in this WCO, he'll need to study up, be that outlet, be a reliable pass catcher and play maker after the catch. He's got all the tools...now it's on him. The TE's will be paramount, front and center in the running game and especially now, in the passing game.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:
McDonald has got butterfingers.

Actually improving every yr and was our only real receiving threat last yr...he didn't have butterfingers last yr

Yeah, but when he drops them it looks like he never caught a pass in his life.

I have no idea what that means lol...I mean if you want to dwell on a missed catch vs the panthers from yrs ago that's fine...show me all the missed catches from last yr? He's improving which is a plus.

He's been infected by the others. He's pretty sure handed when he can square up for a ball. One thing for sure is he's not a flashy one handed catch type of receiver. He has to get both hands on the ball with the ball being out in front of him.

Not many TEs can score 50+ yard TDs. Hopefully he gets a chance to prove himself.

I think he'll surprise this year and win the starting job. He'll never be an elite pass catcher but with a more accurate QB who throws with better touch than Kap, he'll keep improving the drop rate.

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
Maybe THL or JD or really anyone who knows kyles stretch zone scheme well can answer this question. How much emphasis does Kyle put on his TE's in run blocking and pass protection in his scheme? Or does he mainly use TE's as receivers? Because to me I would think Vance is the kind of TE Shanny would like to try and develop. He has speed (which he seems to love) and size to boot, and he's shown to be an above average blocking TE in his first few years. His downside has been his durability and drops but I just don't see how Shanahan could think Vance isn't a top 3 TE on our roster?

From what I've observed, Kyle doesn't use his TE in any unorthodox way that is different from any other offense. He will periodically use deception to free up his TE deep downfield, which is the only difference I've noticed in his TE utilization when comparing it to other offenses. The frequency that he uses multiple TE sets is the main difference in his offense, not the assignments themselves.

Like most run blocking concepts, when it's a run to the strong side, the TE is on the spot to execute his block well. This won't be any different for outside zone. How they block will be different. Just like how it's different for OLmen blocking in a gap scheme versus an outside zone scheme. Kyle will run split zone where the TE pulls across the formation to block an edge defender. This play is in nearly all playbooks.

As far as the passing game, Kyle's TE is going to be running a route much more often than he'll be pass blocking, from what I've observed. This isn't much different from most other offenses. Things may change when going up against a premier edge rusher and having the TE help out. When Kyle calls up shot plays to go deep, he'll run playaction and keep his TE(s) in to block.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Bobdawg78:
If McDonald isn't traded, I highly doubt he's cut this year, just due to guarantees in his salary, and the cap hit we'd take(Yes I understand we have a ton of cap space). It's not like McDonald is so bad that he can't be our 3rd or 4th TE if Shanahan wants Kittles and Paulsen playing a lot. Personally I'd just like to see him traded, so we can move on, and let the new kids play (Kittles, Hikutini).

I'm more of a wait and see guy when I look at Vance. Great measurable, good blocker, some speed. He's already on the team, has played ok in his NFL career. Why not see what he can do in a new system. Now, if the younger guys are just as good as he is, then I'd fully go with the youth movement. I'll take the cap hit and try to get a good trade deal, if the younger guys prove in pre-season that they have the same production ability.

This...it's hard not to give some players a pass and clean slate after the past two years. May the best men win. New 49ers era.

Personally, I'd like a guy that's a bit quicker than Vance. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a wait and see guy with Vance, but I'd like more of a John Frank, Brent Jones kind of guy. Guy's with more wiggle and quickness than strength and speed, although Brent had very decent speed. Vance, to me, doesn't have that jitterbug quickness that guys like Earl Cooper and Russ Francis had back in the day. We shall see...

Yeah, I'd probably like a more natural pass catcher myself, while also noting Vance is improving too. Brent Jones was neither quick or fast but he had an uncanny knack for finding the soft zones, route running and could take BRUTAL beatings while or after securing the catch. He also had some RAC ability too. Smart.

If Vance wants to be the next great TE in this WCO, he'll need to study up, be that outlet, be a reliable pass catcher and play maker after the catch. He's got all the tools...now it's on him. The TE's will be paramount, front and center in the running game and especially now, in the passing game.

The Redskins ran the counter trey. I like counter runs (like the Counter Trey) because as defenses keep getting smaller (like Seadderall) you can use their quickness against them. I think if Kyle features the Counter trey as a component of his zone blocking scheme, I'd keep Vance just for those kinds of plays. He blocks well enough and *if* he proves to Kyle that he can be a reliable pass catcher for Hoyer, I'd love for Kyle to run a fake counter trey and Vance to fake the block and drop behind the Seadderall line backers catch a ball and run over d**ck Sherman on the way to a TD.

Originally posted by thl408:
From what I've observed, Kyle doesn't use his TE in any unorthodox way that is different from any other offense. He will periodically use deception to free up his TE deep downfield, which is the only difference I've noticed in his TE utilization when comparing it to other offenses. The frequency that he uses multiple TE sets is the main difference in his offense, not the assignments themselves.

Like most run blocking concepts, when it's a run to the strong side, the TE is on the spot to execute his block well. This won't be any different for outside zone. How they block will be different. Just like how it's different for OLmen blocking in a gap scheme versus an outside zone scheme. Kyle will run split zone where the TE pulls across the formation to block an edge defender. This play is in nearly all playbooks.

As far as the passing game, Kyle's TE is going to be running a route much more often than he'll be pass blocking, from what I've observed. This isn't much different from most other offenses. Things may change when going up against a premier edge rusher and having the TE help out. When Kyle calls up shot plays to go deep, he'll run playaction and keep his TE(s) in to block.

The counter trey, I think in this play you can wrong foot the quick Seadderall defense and with Vance doing his blocking and William's speed, it could be a home run.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:

McDonald has got butterfingers.

Actually improving every yr and was our only real receiving threat last yr...he didn't have butterfingers last yr

Yeah, but when he drops them it looks like he never caught a pass in his life.

I have no idea what that means lol...I mean if you want to dwell on a missed catch vs the panthers from yrs ago that's fine...show me all the missed catches from last yr? He's improving which is a plus.

If this is the pass where Kuechley seemingly knocks the ball away, and Vance is about 4 steps upfield...look at that frame again, carefully, and you will note that Kuechley actually had Vance's left wrist and forearm pinned against his body, and Vance couldn't get his hand free to control the pass. I was sure that was pass interference or holding ,but it never got called. It was a great defensive play, but Kuechley WAS holding.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mayo49:

McDonald has got butterfingers.

Actually improving every yr and was our only real receiving threat last yr...he didn't have butterfingers last yr

Yeah, but when he drops them it looks like he never caught a pass in his life.

I have no idea what that means lol...I mean if you want to dwell on a missed catch vs the panthers from yrs ago that's fine...show me all the missed catches from last yr? He's improving which is a plus.

If this is the pass where Kuechley seemingly knocks the ball away, and Vance is about 4 steps upfield...look at that frame again, carefully, and you will note that Kuechley actually had Vance's left wrist and forearm pinned against his body, and Vance couldn't get his hand free to control the pass. I was sure that was pass interference or holding ,but it never got called. It was a great defensive play, but Kuechley WAS holding.

That was a game winner if completed. One of many controversial endings that went against us that year. Would have gave us home field advantage

Originally posted by Giedi:

The Redskins ran the counter trey. I like counter runs (like the Counter Trey) because as defenses keep getting smaller (like Seadderall) you can use their quickness against them. I think if Kyle features the Counter trey as a component of his zone blocking scheme, I'd keep Vance just for those kinds of plays. He blocks well enough and *if* he proves to Kyle that he can be a reliable pass catcher for Hoyer, I'd love for Kyle to run a fake counter trey and Vance to fake the block and drop behind the Seadderall line backers catch a ball and run over d**ck Sherman on the way to a TD.

That's a nice visual right there...great call.