Greg Roman, is he really good?

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:

He's good, but NOT really good.

I don't think he is as good as he should be, as we need him to be.

Sure, he's good BUT so are a lot of other OC's.

I can't pinpoint it and it's just a feeling that he's holding back plays that would be very effective. It's like, let's just do enough to get by without showing too much. I'm probably wrong - who knows.

Last week was a good game plan - not spectacular but solid. It was, IMO, what we needed.

Big test on Sunday.

Originally posted by Buchy:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SJniner7:
I feel like roman's passing plays are something I would design while playing at the park. I feel like he just sends guys deep or puts them all in the same area. You don't see very many recievers, TE, or RB accross the middle, out in the flats,or on short to intermediate routes. And his screen plays? OMG, they are almost always an utter failure. We have to be the worst screen team in the league with one of the best/youngest/most agile OL in the league. how does that happen?

This is a HUGE issue and one I've been noticing for the past 12 games or so esp. under CK. The route-tree is horrendous and about as QB-unfriendly as it gets. They keep talking about precision and better execution but how is that possible if 3 receivers go out, two go deep and to the same area (easily covered) and he only "real" target is the shorter route and he's covered as well. These receivers aren't being covered b/c they suck, they are being covered b/c they are simple straight-line routes or curls that don't make ANY DB have to work to cover them. Then CK is off to the races and forced to ad lib and we, by far, have got to be one of the worst ad lib teams I've ever seen. Many of the times the WR's are still downfield blocking out DB's (b/c they expecting the underneath WR to get it cleanly) and/or they don't turn around in time, are slow in finding the soft zone (b/c they don't know if CK is going to run or they should GET AWAY from the DB for a pass), etc.

Either way, this is still a huge huge issue in this anti-WCO route-tree. The need to install SOME WCO principals so that CK not only has options at every level (deeper, intermediate, check-downs) but so that the RECIEVERS themselves know where to go and how to get open and the scheme favors their skill sets to get open instead of being easily covered like they currently are IMHO.

I noticed this on Boldin's first touchdown the other night, he actually ran a shallower route and Baldwin ran the deeper one but both to the same corner. There was a busted coverage I think and the CB moved onto Baldwin to assist the safety then came back. If he'd stuck with Boldin I don't think we'd even have got the first down...The Vernon TD was good, 2nd read and just Vernon beating his man.

I actually was happies about the 2 Baldwin catches largely because I think it will encourage Kaep to throw more to him - McDonald needs to be a target as well for Kaep, he needs to be confident in putting it to Baldwin, Boldin and McDonald when they're covered and let them go get the ball.

I think we should be sending Vernon deep, Vance McDonald sitting in the middle and Boldin/Baldwin running rouates from the outside. Also Roman should have a look at some of the short checkdown passes that KC executed against Philly, they actually threw short to a crossing route in the middle while 3 other receivers blocked ahead of the target.

Sure. When's the last come-back we ran?

Many many of the great contemporary passing attacks target almost as many receivers as there are on the roster. The classic SF WCO, Manning in Indy/Denver, Rogers now, Brees now -- all these guys complete 30 passes to 8 different receivers on a very good day.

We do not show any such tendency. Whether it's because the QB has tunnel vision, or there are not enough receivers called as the number one read on the plays does not really matter. We don't spread it around. And it has NOTHING to do with the talent set of the receiving corps. Brees gets the ball of to everyone because they are okay to very good receivers, but the play design puts them in a superior position to get open, and the QB delivers. Same for all others above. The wco was successful with many average players in the skill position.

We don't seem to have any of that mentality. I'd like to blame Roman. But I read that he does not design passing plays. If that's true then is he really to blame?

Discuss.

as we watch the chargers run the ball right at the colts and beat them as if our running game isn't 4 times better and we don't have the line and running backs PLURAL to have done the same exact thing

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
as we watch the chargers run the ball right at the colts and beat them as if our running game isn't 4 times better and we don't have the line and running backs PLURAL to have done the same exact thing

cia mind tricks

IMHO he tries to get a little too cute when he should call plays that emphasize what this team is built for, no matter what. Too many times this team has stopped itself at critical points. I would like to see Tom Rathman as OC if Roman left.

Roman doesn't care for the passing game at all. He's a glorified running game coordinator, that's pretty much it. I dont really think any of our coaches care to make our passing attack lethal. That's just my opinion though, who knows.

Originally posted by K1ngCoopa24:
Roman doesn't care for the passing game at all. He's a glorified running game coordinator, that's pretty much it. I dont really think any of our coaches care to make our passing attack lethal. That's just my opinion though, who knows.

Depends on the personnel. I'd like to think Harbaugh and Roman are at least smart enough to play to the team's strengths. We don't have the receivers, nor the QB experience, to have a lethal passing attack.

John Fox was a defensive, run heavy minded HC in Carolina. He had Delhomme, a good OL, and a deep stable of RBs. Give him Peyton Manning, 3 stud receivers, and a pass catching TE...all of a sudden he has a pass heavy offense. Good coaches have the offense fit their players' strengths.

I'm hoping that we go a little less run heavy as we start getting our better receivers back from the PUP list. Hopefully Mario will give us a boost in that regard. Here's hoping we draft 2-3 receivers in next years draft and hopefully one of them pans out and becomes a playmaker.

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Depends on the personnel. I'd like to think Harbaugh and Roman are at least smart enough to play to the team's strengths. We don't have the receivers, nor the QB experience, to have a lethal passing attack.

John Fox was a defensive, run heavy minded HC in Carolina. He had Delhomme, a good OL, and a deep stable of RBs. Give him Peyton Manning, 3 stud receivers, and a pass catching TE...all of a sudden he has a pass heavy offense. Good coaches have the offense fit their players' strengths.

Very true. At the same time, I don't think Roman is all that good. He is definitely not on par with the top four-five OCs or former head coaches now relegated to OC duties.

At the same time, he is good enough. Look at singletary and then when Harbaugh came in. Same team, but much different results. And with singletary or roman, our offensive calls weren't much better from one to the next.

He has come up with really good schemes that work and can work most of the time. There are times when he looks great and there are times when it looks like his head is up his butt. It seems to be (timing) with this guy, consistency and proper adjustments (not just at halftime, but by the quarters).

On another note, is he "really good?" Just take a look at his triple chin... I'm sure he's really good at stuffing his face

Seeing as how he still can't figure out the magic and mystery behind screen plays, I'm going to go ahead and say no. The 49ers could be using LaMichael James the exact same way the Cardinals were using Ellington and have him be a threat as both a runner and receiver but have yet to do so. Arizona was making it look easy in the 3rd quarter, drawing the pass rush and then getting the ball out for gains of 6-8 yards. There's literally no reason why the 49ers couldn't do the same thing, especially in this upcoming game where Tennessee has a very good secondary but their linebacker's are so-so tacklers and generally lousy in coverage.

The way teams have consistently played the 49ers is loading the box, sending 5 pass rushers, press the wide receivers and try to force Kaepernick to throw it before the wide receivers have been able to get any sort of separation. That sort of approach SCREAMS for screen plays to force those defenses to back off a bit, which would give both Kaepernick and his receivers more time to connect on passing plays.

Yeah, it's funny how he can't draw up a successful screen play, but he's designed bootleg passes to Staley or Sopoaga lol.

he's great. He puts 350lb linemen split wide.

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
he's great. He puts 350lb linemen split wide.

It worked. Washington stayed on Kilgore even though he was never a threat. I doubt Kilgore would have even caught the ball if it had been thrown.