Greg Roman, is he really good?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by susweel:
he actually sent Kilgore out as a receiver.

I saw that, noticed that Gruden didn't even comment on it. This guy's eccentric playcalling has lost its 2011 charm. Gruden was bashing on the playcalling all game long pretty much.



With that said, the 49ers did some good stuff last night, some clever playcalls in the passing game, WR SCREENS, they actually called WR screens! A nice slant to Boldin to start the game. But once more, no rhythm at all to the playcalling. 49ers could have been passing to Boldin and Crabtree all game long, Kaepernick could have easily had another 400 yard passing night, there were holes everywhere in that defense but they kept giving up on the passing game anytime they had success.


-The WR's weren't coming back to the ball at all. When cornerback's blitz, at least one receiver should break off their route and look for the ball because the QB will have to be getting it out quickly. Either Crabtree or Boldin could have had huge gains on those blitz plays with only a safety back deep.

I was driving home and listening to KNBR and Eric Davis called Roman out on that play call. He said VD and Kilgore were the only two targets that kap had.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm guessing that's due to the AR1 call...BUT, like we said earlier, even in a decoy route (esp. when their DB takes off on a CB blitz), you'd THINK coaching 101 would be to teach CK to instantly look to the receiver side the blitz came from (even if NOT the AR1/2) AND you'd think the WR's would be coached that even in a decoy play, to keep your eye on your DB and in the backfield in case CK is forced to scramble or get rid of the ball quickly. Ummmmmm...yeah.

I'm starting to think that Morton spends half his time surfing the internet for funny cat pictures and porn while at the team facility. Watch how Seattle's receivers react to a broken play or a blitz and how the 49ers receivers respond.

Whoever calls the plays after we get scored on needs to call plays like that the entire game.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm guessing that's due to the AR1 call...BUT, like we said earlier, even in a decoy route (esp. when their DB takes off on a CB blitz), you'd THINK coaching 101 would be to teach CK to instantly look to the receiver side the blitz came from (even if NOT the AR1/2) AND you'd think the WR's would be coached that even in a decoy play, to keep your eye on your DB and in the backfield in case CK is forced to scramble or get rid of the ball quickly. Ummmmmm...yeah.

I'm starting to think that Morton spends half his time surfing the internet for funny cat pictures and porn while at the team facility. Watch how Seattle's receivers react to a broken play or a blitz and how the 49ers receivers respond.

Watch ANY team in the NFL. I'm genuinely convinced we have ZERO hot reads. ZERO.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I'm guessing that's due to the AR1 call...BUT, like we said earlier, even in a decoy route (esp. when their DB takes off on a CB blitz), you'd THINK coaching 101 would be to teach CK to instantly look to the receiver side the blitz came from (even if NOT the AR1/2) AND you'd think the WR's would be coached that even in a decoy play, to keep your eye on your DB and in the backfield in case CK is forced to scramble or get rid of the ball quickly. Ummmmmm...yeah.

I'm starting to think that Morton spends half his time surfing the internet for funny cat pictures and porn while at the team facility. Watch how Seattle's receivers react to a broken play or a blitz and how the 49ers receivers respond.

Watch ANY team in the NFL. I'm genuinely convinced we have ZERO hot reads. ZERO.

Morton should be fired on the spot. How many corner blitzes and not one receiver pulls up for a hot read. Inexcusable! !

Ok, you guys are all piling on roman. So I am going to defend the guy and bring up some positive points.

#1. nah, not that one.

#2. well, he unh...nah, not that one either.

#3. Well there was the unh... nope, not that one either.

#4. I know one. It was the time just before...no, that wasn't so hot either.

#5....ah schidt, guys... I give up.... Blast that hump outta the water. Put him in the icebox. Take away his mike. Don't let him see the game. Somebody baby sit him during game time. I volunteer for the first round. And please, God, please find some fool that needs a "great" OC to come be their HC.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
thL, your point is well taken that it is, after all, Kap who ultimately decides who he is going to throw to, and sometimes, covered or not. However....kap is NOT the HC nor is he the OC. He is the QB, and Qb take orders from their immediate superiors. In this particular instance, JH and roman should have literally forced kap to throw to vance, Baldwin, lmj, and hunter. A simple, "KAP, my man, we need to know what our guys on the bench have...or don't have. We are expecting you, with a 25 pt lead in this game to go out there and help us find out. NOW GO DO IT" .

I can guarnandamtee it that conversation never took place, because if so we would know right this very moment if we are loaded with another TE and 3 RBs who are schidt hot receivers, and can actually be plugged in to WR or TE at any time and even better, as bailouts in the backfield. None of that ever happened. So it does in fact run thru kap, but this is COACHING SCREW UP 101 and it is on Jimbo...and to some extent Trent. roman is complicit just because he should have insisted knowing this also...altho it is a joke to think roman would even consider something like that.

So thl good try, but evidence is against you.

You called me out. What is this evidence that is against me? I am unclear what you were referring to.

I'm waiting on your answer pasodoc9er. If you don't have one, I'm fine with that too. I listed some stats on why the top heavy reception distribution could be linked directly to the QB, not the offense. You said the evidence is against me, essentially dismissing what I listed. What did you base this off of?

NO, no, Thl, we are talking past each other. I said that in a blowout game if JH told kap to run another 24 dive play, that kap would do it. Also, in a blowout game if JH told kap to throw passes to Baldwin/hunter/lmj/ vance, kap would do that too. THl, my point was JH is telling kap what to do, and kap is doing it. Hence in blowout games when JH should have been finding out whether his 2RBs, 1 TE and 1 WR had any talent at catching a ball, JH CHOSE NOT TO DO THAT. And that to me is failing at football 101. That was my point. JH tells kap he needs to know if any of those 4 guys can catch and the game is a laugher, kap is going to do that. It didn't happen so JH blew it. THAT was my point. In a tight game, if JH calls one play (eg on goal line) and frank tells kap,"give it to me", kap did what he thot would win, and we scored. That is completely different than in a blowout game where JH SHOULD HAVE SAID, kap, throw to hunter, LMJ , vance, and Baldwin. I want to know if they can catch". I think Thl we were talking about entirely different things. Maybe not, but the above is what I meant.

I understood you to say that if kap chose not to throw to those 4 guys in a laugher game, he wouldn't have done it, thus going against his coach. I say he would have, because the game was a laugher and JH just wanted some player information.

Did I misunderstand you... or vice versa?

The reason the game was close last night had nothing to do with Greg Roman, the Vic Fangio's philosophy of staying with a four man front and rarely blitzing the QB was the problem on this one. The Flacons front were defending against the four man front and Ryan had all day to throw. It wasn't until the end that he decided to bring an all out blitz which worked but could have also worked against him.

Fangio needs to bring more blitzes to the table and not be predictable with his four man front. Most good Defensive Coordinators will blitz the heck out of you during a 3rd and long situation. I don't see Fangio doing this.

I guaranteed with all the good QB's the 49e'rs will be facing in the playoffs, if he stays with this philosophy ....HE WILL LOSE!

Kaui , we do need to blitz more. But on two of those blitzes, ryan beat us.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
NO, no, Thl, we are talking past each other. I said that in a blowout game if JH told kap to run another 24 dive play, that kap would do it. Also, in a blowout game if JH told kap to throw passes to Baldwin/hunter/lmj/ vance, kap would do that too. THl, my point was JH is telling kap what to do, and kap is doing it. Hence in blowout games when JH should have been finding out whether his 2RBs, 1 TE and 1 WR had any talent at catching a ball, JH CHOSE NOT TO DO THAT. And that to me is failing at football 101. That was my point. JH tells kap he needs to know if any of those 4 guys can catch and the game is a laugher, kap is going to do that. It didn't happen so JH blew it. THAT was my point. In a tight game, if JH calls one play (eg on goal line) and frank tells kap,"give it to me", kap did what he thot would win, and we scored. That is completely different than in a blowout game where JH SHOULD HAVE SAID, kap, throw to hunter, LMJ , vance, and Baldwin. I want to know if they can catch". I think Thl we were talking about entirely different things. Maybe not, but the above is what I meant.

I understood you to say that if kap chose not to throw to those 4 guys in a laugher game, he wouldn't have done it, thus going against his coach. I say he would have, because the game was a laugher and JH just wanted some player information.

Did I misunderstand you... or vice versa?

I think I misunderstood you. I posted some stats that broke down the reception totals when AS was QB and when Kap was QB, and it showed a very top heavy distribution when Kap is QB. This made me think that the offensive philosophy is not the reason why it is top heavy, and that it was the QB that made it top heavy. When you said "the evidence was against me", I thought you were referring to those stats. Thanks for the clarification.

roman was money from 2nd half on. that's our plan going forward

nobody is going to exotically blitz both db's like nolan will.

im not too worried about that type of stuff.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Watch ANY team in the NFL. I'm genuinely convinced we have ZERO hot reads. ZERO.

We have hot reads, but we don't have "sight adjustment" reads. Hots, are only to a specific player against a specific blitz(Gruden talks a lot about them in his playbook) and the WCO has some hot routes but, they have to be against a specific blitz and only on certain plays. Sight adjustment plays are ones where the route for a receiver will change based on the coverage. Dallas runs a lot of these type of plays. Romo threw a pick six once because the sight adjustment was for the receiver to run a comeback and Dez Bryant ran a streak. The WCO is not a sight adjusted offense(according to both Gruden's playbook and Sterling Sharpe has also outright said that).

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
roman was money from 2nd half on. that's our plan going forward

nobody is going to exotically blitz both db's like nolan will.

im not too worried about that type of stuff.

Me neither, in Roman's defense. I looked at last years NFCCG, and 5 of ATL's games this year and didn't see any of the type of stuff that Nolan threw at Kaep this last week. I'm still waiting for the coaches film to be uploaded to be sure though. However, I did find some interesting tidbits from our playbook in Gruden's playbook from the Raiders that I posted over in my Tampa Bay coaches film thread.

Thl, no harm done, and in retrospect, I reread your post, and as noted, I noted the AS reference, and we WERE talking about two entirely different things. Sorry for the confusion.

jonnydel and Adrian I respect you guys and am in the process of completely relearning football as I thot I knew it since back in the B & W 12" TV days, that broadcast the mudbowl, circa 1956. After h.s. and then college, I have just watched games and thot I knew what I was seeing...but obviously didn't .Thanks to you two and Thl, and NC, it has been a revelation, not to mention a fascinating experience. But... I certainly agree the 2nd half we were coached a lot better, or heck, even well. The first half, however, had this been an elite team, which we face from here on out, we would have been blown out of the tub. The craziness of the calls, the nutty sequences, finding a winner and then going away from it, the disjointedness of what was being called...gad, it was painful...and also, nowhere near enough to get us past our first playoff game...let alone any others.

so I ask you: just exactly what would you all recommend we do, coaching wise, to get an entire game coached coherently? I wouldn't worry as bad if this were a first time event...but it isn't. It is the antithesis of a BW coached game, with the first 25 plays written on a cardboard. Here the first half is just by gosh and by golly, no reasoning, no direction, nothing. How in the world do we win from here on if we play goofball football the first half? Frankly we were lucky to win this one, giving the first half away like it didn't matter. Maybe some of this is on the players, but #81 and #15 were ready to play...not so much some of the others. But overall,the coaching calls in first half were epically bad. Why and how is this fixed? Or, can it be?

Rereading this maybe I answered my own question. Should we be using 25 scripted plays for the first half? Can't be any worse than it is now.