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Building a team to beat the Kansas City Chiefs

  • fryet
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 3,165
Each time we get to the Super Bowl, KC is waiting for us on the other side. And, each time KC beats us. I think we need to design a team that can foremost beat KC, and I think that requires some fundamental changes in the team.

Our core defensive philosophy is to build our defense through our DL. But, I don't think that is a winning strategy, especially how we use the DL. Since so many QB like to run, our DE can't use the speed rush to get around the end to sack the QB, instead they push the tackle towards the QB, but guard against the QB running through the vacated B gap. First off, can't we just have one of our tackles, take the B gap instead, or have a late blitzing LB that rushes that gap when Mahomes tries to scramble? But, I digress, since we aren't doing a speed rush anyway, I don't think we need a super DL. Instead, we want strong DE that can push the tackle to the QB and set the edge on the run. Nick Bosa is already overpaid to do that, and we have 2 strong tackles, but I suspect we can get a strong DE with limited sacks without breaking the bank.

Regardless, DL isn't going to beat KC. What did we see in this latest Super Bowl? 49ers gave up 3 points the first half, and 16 points the second half. DL get tired. And you will never be able to have enough good backups that can prevent the DL from having a strong dip in production when the starters rest. So, instead of investing all of our money on a super DL, we should transition more to the back 7. Specifically, we need another very good LB that can be strong in both the run and pass - we will have to spend at least a 3rd round pick for that. We also need a good safety, and at least one more good corner. With a stronger backend, that will allow more 5 man blitzes. In my ideal world, I would spend a 1st and a second on a safety and a corner (either one can be the first round pick), and a third on a LB. Hopefully we can get the strong DE through free agency.

Unfortunately, we also need help on offense, but to be honest scoring "20" (not the fault of the O, that our kicker missed an extra point), was only beaten by the Bills in the playoffs who scored 24. On offense, ideally we would spend a first/2nd on tackle and guard (either can be first), plus it would be nice to draft Deebo's replacement after he leaves in free agency after next year. We don't have enough draft picks for all of that, though, so Deebo's replacement will probably have to wait till next year.

All in all, I focused on spending 2 1st, 2 2nd, and 1 third. Obviously, we don't have that many picks, so either we have to get more players in free agency, or this is a multi-year rebuild. From what I hear the OL is strong this draft, so it may make sense to spend the draft picks in that direction. That also may give more bang for the buck, as the best way to probably beat a KC defense that is focused on stopping the pass is having a stronger OL that strengthens the run.
right tackle please.

Please ?

Please ?
Originally posted by UKNiner:
right tackle please.

Please ?

Please ?

How about. RT, C, and RG
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
How about. RT, C, and RG

Feliciano has earned a spot next season.
Well Chris Jones will be an unrestricted free agent so he won't be the reason the 49ers lose to the Chiefs anymore.
Get a better QB than Mahomes.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Get a better QB than Mahomes.
the difference wasn't Mahomes it was coaching and the Chiefs ability to hold none stop.
  • dj43
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 35,601
Originally posted by RumphSteak:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
How about. RT, C, and RG

Feliciano has earned a spot next season.

Agree. When he went out and Burford came in, the drop-off in play was huge. From what I could see on the 3rd down play that Jones came unblocked, it was Burford missing his assignment.

RT for sure needs to get a lot better. Center as well.
We had them on the ropes, but a kick that bounced off Luter's foot and McCloud mishandled spotted them an easy 7 points. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. To win in a super bowl in this league you need good players, good coaches and good luck. We didn't have good luck.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by RumphSteak:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
How about. RT, C, and RG

Feliciano has earned a spot next season.

Agree. When he went out and Burford came in, the drop-off in play was huge. From what I could see on the 3rd down play that Jones came unblocked, it was Burford missing his assignment.

RT for sure needs to get a lot better. Center as well.

Yup and like you said in the other thread, secondary help. We need another CB, not one in the 3rd or later rounds, one that starts for us either in the slot or outside, letting Demo be the full time starter in the slot.

Originally posted by fryet:
Each time we get to the Super Bowl, KC is waiting for us on the other side. And, each time KC beats us. I think we need to design a team that can foremost beat KC, and I think that requires some fundamental changes in the team.

Our core defensive philosophy is to build our defense through our DL. But, I don't think that is a winning strategy, especially how we use the DL. Since so many QB like to run, our DE can't use the speed rush to get around the end to sack the QB, instead they push the tackle towards the QB, but guard against the QB running through the vacated B gap. First off, can't we just have one of our tackles, take the B gap instead, or have a late blitzing LB that rushes that gap when Mahomes tries to scramble? But, I digress, since we aren't doing a speed rush anyway, I don't think we need a super DL. Instead, we want strong DE that can push the tackle to the QB and set the edge on the run. Nick Bosa is already overpaid to do that, and we have 2 strong tackles, but I suspect we can get a strong DE with limited sacks without breaking the bank.

Regardless, DL isn't going to beat KC. What did we see in this latest Super Bowl? 49ers gave up 3 points the first half, and 16 points the second half. DL get tired. And you will never be able to have enough good backups that can prevent the DL from having a strong dip in production when the starters rest. So, instead of investing all of our money on a super DL, we should transition more to the back 7. Specifically, we need another very good LB that can be strong in both the run and pass - we will have to spend at least a 3rd round pick for that. We also need a good safety, and at least one more good corner. With a stronger backend, that will allow more 5 man blitzes. In my ideal world, I would spend a 1st and a second on a safety and a corner (either one can be the first round pick), and a third on a LB. Hopefully we can get the strong DE through free agency.

Unfortunately, we also need help on offense, but to be honest scoring "20" (not the fault of the O, that our kicker missed an extra point), was only beaten by the Bills in the playoffs who scored 24. On offense, ideally we would spend a first/2nd on tackle and guard (either can be first), plus it would be nice to draft Deebo's replacement after he leaves in free agency after next year. We don't have enough draft picks for all of that, though, so Deebo's replacement will probably have to wait till next year.

All in all, I focused on spending 2 1st, 2 2nd, and 1 third. Obviously, we don't have that many picks, so either we have to get more players in free agency, or this is a multi-year rebuild. From what I hear the OL is strong this draft, so it may make sense to spend the draft picks in that direction. That also may give more bang for the buck, as the best way to probably beat a KC defense that is focused on stopping the pass is having a stronger OL that strengthens the run.

I totally agree. It's like the 1994 49ers approach. Build a team to beat Dallas (in this case, the Chiefs). I also agree on the pass rushers. I think there's a reason Mahommes beats DeMeco and Saleh by so much. That style of rush doesn't work against him. We got pretty close with a more disciplined pass rush. I honestly think the bigger issue is offense as opposed to defense. Our defenses did a good job for the most part in the Super Bowls, the problem is in both cases, our offense couldn't deliver enough points while the defense dominated.

Brock Purdy sees the field pretty good, can find open guys, can hit big plays, and can pick up yards with his leg when necessary. Given his talent, the only thing I can see elevating this team significantly building a wal around him first and foremost (a minimum of two new starters on O-line, which means sound drafting NOT developmental players), a run stuffer at DT, which means AA moves back to DE on base downs and we run with AA-(think T'Vondre Sweat, Kris Jenkins, or McKinnley Jackson)-Hargrave-Bosa on base downs primarily and Bosa-AA-Hargrave-Beal when we are rushing the passer. Ferrell, Davis, Jackson, and hopefully another DE or two to round out our D-line. That starting D-line will destroy pockets and can contain QBs and hopefully Davis and Beal can emerge as pass rushers to give us more when we want to get after the QB.

Besides that, we need a starter on the outside at corner (pick 63 at the lowest) so Lenoir can be our longterm guy in the slot. This should shore up glaring weaknesses on both offense and defense and requires only a commitment of our first four picks. With the final 7, just go BPA available.

Addressing these weaknesses should also keep us ahead of the rest of the NFC. One more ho hum draft and we are done by 2025.
[ Edited by LifelongNiner on Feb 12, 2024 at 6:25 AM ]
We got a First and Second Rounder again.
All set up de be disappointed on Draft Day from Lynch and Shanahan again in the early rounds.

I am getting excited
Upgrade the o line to better pass protect. Easiest way to win a ton of games next year. I want a nasty ass dominant center and RT.

I am going to assume Greenlaw isn't the same so we must find a linebacker or two with speed and tenacity like him to compete and help rotate, fill in for these guys. His loss killed the defense in the second half. He makes every completion underneath a chore for opposing offenses.

A CB2.

Run stuffing DT and better edge opposite Bosa (remember the minimally healthy Dee Ford... wish we could find a speed rusher) Depth for sure along the lines regardless.

Better, faster safeties would be a plus.

An true speed WR to take the top off coverages is also good and something we've never really had.

Maybe find a TE and FB to develop behind our aging stars Kittle and Juice.

Higher level - physical violent football guys. Especially in the trenches. We lost a bit of that. Greenlaw is that on defense. Its important imo.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Well Chris Jones will be an unrestricted free agent so he won't be the reason the 49ers lose to the Chiefs anymore.

...I just know they'll work some kind of BS magic and get him signed.

But if he actually leaves(I pray it's to nowhere close to the NFC West), ideally another AFC team then the Chiefs are a very different team.

And let's be honest...we should've won that game. We have the team to beat them, just didn't get it done. But improving the OL in either way is clearly the top goal.
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Well Chris Jones will be an unrestricted free agent so he won't be the reason the 49ers lose to the Chiefs anymore.

...I just know they'll work some kind of BS magic and get him signed.

But if he actually leaves(I pray it's to nowhere close to the NFC West), ideally another AFC team then the Chiefs are a very different team.

And let's be honest...we should've won that game. We have the team to beat them, just didn't get it done. But improving the OL in either way is clearly the top goal.

I'm fairly certain he'll be back
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