Mac Jones-QB-Jaguars

I think that Jones will have the best career behind Trevor Lawrence of the draft class. Justin fields obviously got a little bit bigger of an arm probably a little faster and more mobile but I just like the Moxie that Mac Jones plays with. He's a very confident QB sort of like the Aaron Rodgers sort of mentality and I think the Niners need something like that

Originally posted by simplyfloyd:
I think that Jones will have the best career behind Trevor Lawrence of the draft class. Justin fields obviously got a little bit bigger of an arm probably a little faster and more mobile but I just like the Moxie that Mac Jones plays with. He's a very confident QB sort of like the Aaron Rodgers sort of mentality and I think the Niners need something like that

Get rid of those littles right away! Fields has a much stronger arm, and is ridiculously faster.

Also that Aaron Rodgers mentality, without the tools to go with it could be very dangerous, especially in obvious passing situations

Originally posted by Nastastical:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
That's like saying water is more wet than salt.

But this guy wouldn't make me sad if we picked him. He's almost tailor made for a Shanahan offense.

Exactly! Don't care how he would fit or look with the other 31 teams. For us, he's perfect

This is what I don't get from the people that are against drafting Jones. Have some of you guys not been paying attention to what Kyle Shanahan does on offense? He put up a historically good offense with Matt Ryan at QB, who doesn't have a rocket arm and isn't a good athlete. He schemes guys open and the QB literally just has to follow the script and not do dumb sh*t when the play isn't there to be made. He wants guys that are an extension of him at QB. You don't need a big arm to hit guys running open across the middle of the field or downfield with a step on the defender, you just need to be poised in the pocket and accurate, which both Ryan and Cousins were, and Mac Jones is. Jimmy is also somewhat accurate, but his biggest issues is how he panics in the pocket under pressure since the ACL, and he's just not very accurate throwing towards the sidelines or downfield, so it limits him and our offense. If Jones can simply expand Shanny's playbook with his skillset, then he's more than worth our 1st round pick. I'd even trade up to #8 if it means securing him.

Some of you are obsessing over traits that Kyle has never put much value into. It's like you want him to change up the entire offense just to fit your idea of what a QB should look like. It's the same way people go crazy for big WR's and this offense hardly ever calls plays that best utilize those guys strengths, or big slow footed OL that can't move in space. Stop trying to force fit guys into this offense when it's shown to be highly effective when Kyle gets the players he wants and injuries don't kill the season.

Agreed! I don't have an issue at all with the strong armed, athletic QBs, but I really don't think that's the direction NFL teams will be going in order to be a threat in the playoffs. I still believe it's the accuracy, poise, IQ, and toughness that will get a QB to take his team over the top. The mobility and rocket arms are just pluses, but not necessarily a necessity. Some folks on here are always like "Im tired of not going after the top guy with unlimited athleticism. I'm tired of not having a QB that can run it for a 1st down. I'm tired of not having a top 5 QB."

I don't need a damn Ferrari at QB. Mac can't break a 15 yard rush, but he'll find his open receiver in under 2 seconds. Mac won't laser a 65 yard strike, but he'll throw the prettiest fly route and make it catchable for Aiyuk and Kittle. First read isn't open? He probably won't tuck and run, but he'll maneuver around the pocket to go up to his third read if he has to. It's not flashy, but if it moves the chains and puts points on the board, sign me up.

I think people are underestimating his athletic ability. I think he can pick up a first down if needed with his legs.

also, people forget the biggest weapon a qb has IMO is getting the ball out quickly

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by simplyfloyd:
I think that Jones will have the best career behind Trevor Lawrence of the draft class. Justin fields obviously got a little bit bigger of an arm probably a little faster and more mobile but I just like the Moxie that Mac Jones plays with. He's a very confident QB sort of like the Aaron Rodgers sort of mentality and I think the Niners need something like that

Get rid of those littles right away! Fields has a much stronger arm, and is ridiculously faster.

Also that Aaron Rodgers mentality, without the tools to go with it could be very dangerous, especially in obvious passing situations

Yeah what are we doing here? A little stronger arm? A little faster? LOL wut.

also couldn't agree more with your last sentence IMO I don't think any of these top 5 QBs lack in the moxie department.

Originally posted by rathman4481:
I think people are underestimating his athletic ability. I think he can pick up a first down if needed with his legs.

also, people forget the biggest weapon a qb has IMO is getting the ball out quickly

EXACLY! not only is he mobile enough within the pocket he can scramble for first downs. He may not have the ability to make house calls but he has enough to help move the chains.

Originally posted by rathman4481:
I think people are underestimating his athletic ability. I think he can pick up a first down if needed with his legs.

also, people forget the biggest weapon a qb has IMO is getting the ball out quickly

I think people don't understand how athletic NFL players are compared to college players. He was limited in that department in college, he's not gonna be better with bigger/strong/smarter vets at the next level chasing him.

Name me the last QB that plays like Mac drafted in the last 5 yrs that's been successful?

Players can learn their reads, they can learn their hot routes, and where to get rid of the ball quickly...you can't go from a avg arm to a top end arm talent those windows are harder to throw into at the next level, you can't get much more athletic. There's god given ability, which should matter. Only 32 QBs can play at the highest level (and over half of them aren't even good enough).

as far as running, being an actual threat to run changes how a defense can cover....it's the threat of it, not necessarily having to call run plays for a QB. Steve Young talks about it. Free yards are a thing, you're looking at like 3/4 more converted 1st downs a game if your QB can be a threat there. It expands what Kyle can do with the play-book, it helps the OL.

We already have a QB that can get rid of the ball quickly.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by simplyfloyd:
I think that Jones will have the best career behind Trevor Lawrence of the draft class. Justin fields obviously got a little bit bigger of an arm probably a little faster and more mobile but I just like the Moxie that Mac Jones plays with. He's a very confident QB sort of like the Aaron Rodgers sort of mentality and I think the Niners need something like that

Get rid of those littles right away! Fields has a much stronger arm, and is ridiculously faster.

Also that Aaron Rodgers mentality, without the tools to go with it could be very dangerous, especially in obvious passing situations

Fields is more accurate, too. But Fields is way less likely to be available than Jones, so there's probably little point in comparing.

But of course we do because it's fun!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by rathman4481:
I think people are underestimating his athletic ability. I think he can pick up a first down if needed with his legs.

also, people forget the biggest weapon a qb has IMO is getting the ball out quickly

I think people don't understand how athletic NFL players are compared to college players. He was limited in that department in college, he's not gonna be better with bigger/strong/smarter vets at the next level chasing him.

Name me the last QB that plays like Mac drafted in the last 5 yrs that's been successful?

Players can learn their reads, they can learn their hot routes, and where to get rid of the ball quickly...you can't go from a avg arm to a top end arm talent those windows are harder to throw into at the next level, you can't get much more athletic. There's god given ability, which should matter. Only 32 QBs can play at the highest level (and over half of them aren't even good enough).

as far as running, being an actual threat to run changes how a defense can cover....it's the threat of it, not necessarily having to call run plays for a QB. Steve Young talks about it. Free yards are a thing, you're looking at like 3/4 more converted 1st downs a game if your QB can be a threat there. It expands what Kyle can do with the play-book, it helps the OL.

We already have a QB that can get rid of the ball quickly.

Respectfully disagree.

First, we may have a QB who can "get rid of the ball quickly," but he is NOT a fast processor — AT ALL. Jimmy is quick to get rid of the ball when he chooses where he's going presnap and sticks with that decision (which is fairly often). He is NOT good at reading the field post snap and he is NOT good at processing the defense and going through progressions quickly.

Second, usually this trait is NOT learnable. Either you see the field or you don't, and rarely do quarterbacks improve on that. We have two recent examples that drive it home: Kap never got it, and Jimmy still hasn't gotten it. Kurt Warner has a point in his criticism of Rosen. It is very rare that guys learn this new trait. About as rare as a guy improving his arm strength or agility.

From all this hyperbole, sounds like McCorkle is going to Jacksonville

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Respectfully disagree.

First, we may have a QB who can "get rid of the ball quickly," but he is NOT a fast processor — AT ALL. Jimmy is quick to get rid of the ball when he chooses where he's going presnap and sticks with that decision (which is fairly often). He is NOT good at reading the field post snap and he is NOT good at processing the defense and going through progressions quickly.

Second, usually this trait is NOT learnable. Either you see the field or you don't, and rarely do quarterbacks improve on that. We have two recent examples that drive it home: Kap never got it, and Jimmy still hasn't gotten it. Kurt Warner has a point in his criticism of Rosen. It is very rare that guys learn this new trait. About as rare as a guy improving his arm strength or agility.

I totally disagree that learning reads pre/post snap are not learnable traits. Especially when you're talking about 20-22 yr olds that were asked to do certain things in college.

I guess you're WF draft evaluations were completely wrong on Rosen, literally his strengths were football IQ, vision, reading coverages etc.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Respectfully disagree.

First, we may have a QB who can "get rid of the ball quickly," but he is NOT a fast processor — AT ALL. Jimmy is quick to get rid of the ball when he chooses where he's going presnap and sticks with that decision (which is fairly often). He is NOT good at reading the field post snap and he is NOT good at processing the defense and going through progressions quickly.

Second, usually this trait is NOT learnable. Either you see the field or you don't, and rarely do quarterbacks improve on that. We have two recent examples that drive it home: Kap never got it, and Jimmy still hasn't gotten it. Kurt Warner has a point in his criticism of Rosen. It is very rare that guys learn this new trait. About as rare as a guy improving his arm strength or agility.

I totally disagree that learning reads pre/post snap are not learnable traits. Especially when you're talking about 20-22 yr olds that were asked to do certain things in college.

Completely disagree.

I said "usually" not learnable, and history seems to support that claim (which is why Warner alluded to it when discussing Rosen).

And again, please stop claiming guys like Lance were told not to see the field. That's based on nothing but a need to explain why he didn't move to a wide open second read on some plays.

Again, not unlearnable, but it rarely happens.

But ASSUMING I'm right, that it is rare for a QB to develop field vision, what is the reason? Clearly some of them do, even though it is rare.

So you say it's learnable, so what is your hypothesis for why so many guys don't develop field vision?

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I said "usually" not learnable, and history seems to support that claim (which is why Warner alluded to it when discussing Rosen).

And again, please stop claiming guys like Lance were told not to see the field. That's based on nothing but a need to explain why he didn't move to a wide open second read on some plays.

Again, not unlearnable, but it rarely happens.

How about you go checkout your Walterfootball evaluations on Rosen...literally his strengths were vision/football IQ/reading coverages etc.

Again what QB drafted in the past 5yrs with the same traits as Jones, had been successful?

Lance had half reads, it's there for you to see. His QB coach talks about it. Doesn't mean he can't do it (herbert says hi) or learn it. He was running the offense he was asked to run.

No one is asking a QB at 12 to start day 1.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
But ASSUMING I'm right, that it is rare for a QB to develop field vision, what is the reason? Clearly some of them do, even though it is rare.

So you say it's learnable, so what is your hypothesis for why so many guys don't develop field vision?

What current starting QBs had amazing field vision and went through multiple reads in college? Who was asked to diagnose a coverage pre-snap and move around protections? Who had ALL of that figured out before stepping into the NFL?

that's a learnable trait IF you have a prospect willing to learn it (smart) and the proper coaching staff.

That's like you telling me I couldn't learn how to drive a car after I turn 20.