Malik Hooker S Ohio State

Originally posted by tjd808185:
The one I got to disagree with you on is you can't account for what's later. What if Baker is off the board? What if Corey Davis falls? You really don't know what you're going to get in the 2nd round. You can look at overall depth but that's not a guarantee. I've seen 8 deep wr classes with only Fitzgerald delivering. You got to take it one pick at a time and while I'm not on Hooker's bandwagon I still don't see 3 tech as a need.

Once again, we disagree on Thomas being just a 3 tech. Heck even if he was just one fit...who do we have there? Armstead? Ward has shown way more in his NFL career than Armstead has but why are we considering FS a need while assuming we're good at 3T?

I do agree with your main point which is you can't account who can be had later but it's partly why I value Thomas over Hooker, I think Ward allows us to not even touch safety in this draft. If Baker is there and we think he's BPA then you take him and let them fight it out. If not then we have Ward show what he can do.

Originally posted by genus49:
Once again, we disagree on Thomas being just a 3 tech. Heck even if he was just one fit...who do we have there? Armstead? Ward has shown way more in his NFL career than Armstead has but why are we considering FS a need while assuming we're good at 3T?

I do agree with your main point which is you can't account who can be had later but it's partly why I value Thomas over Hooker, I think Ward allows us to not even touch safety in this draft. If Baker is there and we think he's BPA then you take him and let them fight it out. If not then we have Ward show what he can do.

Because you're just moving parts with Ward. If you move him to s now you got a big need at corner. If Hooker was Thomas I'd argue all day long to just keep Ward at slot corner which plays 75% of the time.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by genus49:
Once again, we disagree on Thomas being just a 3 tech. Heck even if he was just one fit...who do we have there? Armstead? Ward has shown way more in his NFL career than Armstead has but why are we considering FS a need while assuming we're good at 3T?

I do agree with your main point which is you can't account who can be had later but it's partly why I value Thomas over Hooker, I think Ward allows us to not even touch safety in this draft. If Baker is there and we think he's BPA then you take him and let them fight it out. If not then we have Ward show what he can do.

Because you're just moving parts with Ward. If you move him to s now you got a big need at corner. If Hooker was Thomas I'd argue all day long to just keep Ward at slot corner which plays 75% of the time.

I'd also like to see what Redmond can do...he was looked at as a low 1st rd pick before the injury. I also think RR and Brock will be fine for this season (brock actually ranked out as the 23th best overall CB). Regardless we're gonna have to draft a CB and this draft is chalk full of talent. I'd love to go after Sidey Jones and get him ready to roll next yr...Jones with Robinson/Redmond would be a nice young crew.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I'd also like to see what Redmond can do...he was looked at as a low 1st rd pick before the injury. I also think RR and Brock will be fine for this season (brock actually ranked out as the 23th best overall CB). Regardless we're gonna have to draft a CB and this draft is chalk full of talent. I'd love to go after Sidey Jones and get him ready to roll next yr...Jones with Robinson/Redmond would be a nice young crew.

So our best corner ranks 23rd. Do you not see a problem there? 23rd is not good for your best corner. We ranked 19th in passing last year it wasn't a good secondary by any means. If we keep Ward at slot corner I don't think corner is a huge need but with him moving to safety it's a huge hole to fill. I think we've all had enough banking on Trent's all ACL team. Like I said I'd like Baker there it's just not something you can pencil in. If there's 2-3 other guys you'd live with later that's when you start considering that.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
So our best corner ranks 23rd. Do you not see a problem there? 23rd is not good for your best corner. We ranked 19th in passing last year it wasn't a good secondary by any means. If we keep Ward at slot corner I don't think corner is a huge need but with him moving to safety it's a huge hole to fill. I think we've all had enough banking on Trent's all ACL team. Like I said I'd like Baker there it's just not something you can pencil in. If there's 2-3 other guys you'd live with later that's when you start considering that.

Huh? Zona's best CB PP was 17th overall (4th overall pass D) and none of the other CB were even ranked. Bears had the 7th overall pass D and there highest ranked CB was LeBlanc at 57th overall and they brought in Prince who was 41st overall. Bills had the 6th overall pass D and Gilmore was the 60th ranked CB and Darby was the 66th overall CB. 23rd IS actually pretty good for your top CB.

Last I saw pass rush can make a a secondary better I thought Redmond played will in preseason did you not? I have no idea why they didn't play them but I also have no idea why JoN was even a DC in the NFL to begin with...you've said yourself that Ward is a mediocre CB, so why not let him play his more natural position? They brought in Williams to play slot as well. CB is gonna be drafted regardless if Ward is a S or CB and Lynch already said they're moving him to FS

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

gotta be able to stay on the field to make plays and to be effective.
ward has yet to prove he can stay on the field

and with people saying he can be "the earl thomas" for us....
Earl thomas is about 10lbs heavier, yet 1 inch shorter, yet moves very fast being heavier then ward. that 10lbs is quite a bit when it's 10lbs of muscle.

Last I saw hooker was currently injuried with a torn labrum? You want to draft a safety who's already got banged up shoulders? Ward doesn't have to be earl Thomas why can't get be Allen in ATL? He's a fine FS and Ward is actually bigger than him....and IMO hooker isn't earl Thomas.

Where did I say I'm sold on hooker at #2...
Regarding Ward, Gotta hand it to you NY.... you sure get salty if your not agreed with lol
I don't get it... it's opinions! And not everything stated is right!
I don't think ward is a solution to a lot of our defensive struggles.
Constantly injured... I could say smallish and shortish, but that's realative to the position and who
he's compared to.

He can't stay on the field.
A player that can't stay on the field is a waste of a roaster spot, just like
Bruce Ellington or Lynch...
can't stay on the field

Originally posted by jeepzilla:
Where did I say I'm sold on hooker at #2...
Regarding Ward, Gotta hand it to you NY.... you sure get salty if your not agreed with lol
I don't get it...
I don't think ward is a solution to a lot of our defensive struggles.
Constantly injured... I could say smallish and shortish, but that's realative to the position and who
he's compared to.

He can't stay on the field.
A player that can't stay on the field is a waste of a roaster spot, just like
Bruce Ellington or Lynch...
can't stay on the field

Figured you wanted Hooker cause this is the Hooker thread Nah not salty just don't agree with everyone all the time lol. 5-11 195 isn't small? SO what do you propose cutting Ward cause he can't play 16 games? Who do you want at two?

Originally posted by tjd808185:

So our best corner ranks 23rd. Do you not see a problem there? 23rd is not good for your best corner. We ranked 19th in passing last year it wasn't a good secondary by any means. If we keep Ward at slot corner I don't think corner is a huge need but with him moving to safety it's a huge hole to fill. I think we've all had enough banking on Trent's all ACL team. Like I said I'd like Baker there it's just not something you can pencil in. If there's 2-3 other guys you'd live with later that's when you start considering that.

23rd is actually really good if you consider that opposing QBs had alllllll day to throw it and WRs had all day to get open since we had no pass rush, or we'd stack the box and still miss a s**t load of tackles.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Huh? Zona's best CB PP was 17th overall (4th overall pass D) and none of the other CB were even ranked. Bears had the 7th overall pass D and there highest ranked CB was LeBlanc at 57th overall and they brought in Prince who was 41st overall. Bills had the 6th overall pass D and Gilmore was the 60th ranked CB and Darby was the 66th overall CB. 23rd IS actually pretty good for your top CB.

Last I saw pass rush can make a a secondary better I thought Redmond played will in preseason did you not? I have no idea why they didn't play them but I also have no idea why JoN was even a DC in the NFL to begin with...you've said yourself that Ward is a mediocre CB, so why not let him play his more natural position? They brought in Williams to play slot as well. CB is gonna be drafted regardless if Ward is a S or CB and Lynch already said they're moving him to FS

Brock doesn't compare to PP and you know it. You also have to look at the secondary as a whole which I doubt you're doing. What are their safeties ranked at?

What pass rush with no defensive ends? Thomas isn't fixing that. A great secondary allows for you to play 8 in the box and create more confusion more pressure. See Seattle.

With Redmond kind of hard to play from injury reserved. Didn't watch him in preseason but I'm not banking on that. Lynch said they're testing Ward there. Whether it sticks is another story either way the secondary needs help. Slot corner is a increasingly important position to the point where we spent a late 1st on Ward. We may need to do the same again with Baker. As for K'wan it's a 1 year deal and you're drafting for the long haul.

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Quoted me right before I edited it with Trent Williams in it. Regardless, I'm not so sure about that. I would guess the Carroll would take McCoy over Earl any day.

There are 3 or 4 safeties expected to start right away in this draft. There are 10+ who can start/rotate at 3T. Put ward at FS, where's the depth behind him? No guarantee a safety is still there at 34. But if baker is there, where do we draft our edge rusher?

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Brock doesn't compare to PP and you know it. You also have to look at the secondary as a whole which I doubt you're doing. What are their safeties ranked at?

What pass rush with no defensive ends? Thomas isn't fixing that. A great secondary allows for you to play 8 in the box and create more confusion more pressure. See Seattle.

With Redmond kind of hard to play from injury reserved. Didn't watch him in preseason but I'm not banking on that. Lynch said they're testing Ward there. Whether it sticks is another story either way the secondary needs help. Slot corner is a increasingly important position to the point where we spent a late 1st on Ward. We may need to do the same again with Baker. As for K'wan it's a 1 year deal and you're drafting for the long haul.

I'm not comparing PP to Brock don't be silly, just showing you where they're ranked my man. As far as safeties go the bills have jack squat there (poyer ranked 70th overall) and went after Hyde in FA. Zona has Jefferson who was good but didn't care enough to resign him. Matthieu was 62 overall and they brought in bethea the bears have demps who played well (12th overall) but they didn't have anything close to lockdown at CB. 23rd overall isn't bad at all considering how many CBs play in the league. There were a TON of big name CBs that ranked lower than he did.

Last I saw the quickest way to a qb is a straight line no? Interior pass rush most certainly helps in the grand scheme of getting pressure on a qb! OH NO WAY another look at Seattle comment

This draft is full of CBs and they will be drafting one regardless if Ward is a CB or S

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
There are 3 or 4 safeties expected to start right away in this draft. There are 10+ who can start/rotate at 3T. Put ward at FS, where's the depth behind him? No guarantee a safety is still there at 34. But if baker is there, where do we draft our edge rusher?

Jordan Willis, Tarrell Basham, Devonte Fields, Josh Carraway and Daeshon Hall to name a few who should be there in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I'm not comparing PP to Brock don't be silly, just showing you where they're ranked my man. As far as safeties go the bills have jack squat there (poyer ranked 70th overall) and went after Hyde in FA. Zona has Jefferson who was good but didn't care enough to resign him. Matthieu was 62 overall and they brought in bethea the bears have demps who played well (12th overall) but they didn't have anything close to lockdown at CB. 23rd overall isn't bad at all considering how many CBs play in the league. There were a TON of big name CBs that ranked lower than he did.

Last I saw the quickest way to a qb is a straight line no? Interior pass rush most certainly helps in the grand scheme of getting pressure on a qb! OH NO WAY another look at Seattle comment

This draft is full of CBs and they will be drafting one regardless if Ward is a CB or S

It may be but the most effective way to get to the qb is his blindside and it's kind of why De's, lt's are so valuable. I don't see the problem with bringing up Seattle. If we hired McDaniel I'm sure there would be a lot of talk what NE does.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
So our best corner ranks 23rd. Do you not see a problem there? 23rd is not good for your best corner. We ranked 19th in passing last year it wasn't a good secondary by any means. If we keep Ward at slot corner I don't think corner is a huge need but with him moving to safety it's a huge hole to fill. I think we've all had enough banking on Trent's all ACL team. Like I said I'd like Baker there it's just not something you can pencil in. If there's 2-3 other guys you'd live with later that's when you start considering that.

Given the lack of pass rush 23rd is pretty good...and as has been mentioned already some guys considered elite corners are ranked around that same area..with better fronts and pass rush.

The fact that our secondary was able to play as well as they did with the chit show of a pass rush last year is actually super impressive. I'd also say it's easier to find good DBs later in the draft over stud pass rushers and those pass rushers can make the DBs look much better.

Very few DBs are good enough to bring an average DL to a quality level. A great pass rusher can make all 4+ DBs look better at the same time.